Forums | MacLife

reefdog wrote:

I agree with zbah in terms of getting his money back. Regardless of whether Apple or Aspyr broke it, if the box says "Requires Mac OS X 10.x or later", and he's got it but can't play the game, he should get his money back. We shouldn't have to research the hell out of each game we buy to make sure it works perfectly on our configuration.

Indeed. Apple has a bad history of screwing up games for a long period of time (take RTCW if you had a geforce 3 and more than 1 gig of ram).

reefdog wrote:

ConnertheCat wrote:

I have a game here that requires OS 8.1 or later - it wont' run on OS X.5 for Intel!   *Demands money back*

Yes, that's an apt example.

Well, where do we draw the line then?

NAG wrote:

When the OS doesn't say that it is going to break applications.

I think the main problem is that it usually takes Apple about a half a year to unscrew up OpenGL after they mess it up.

The demand your money back from Apple, not the poor developers.

ConnertheCat wrote:

reefdog wrote:

ConnertheCat wrote:

I have a game here that requires OS 8.1 or later - it wont' run on OS X.5 for Intel!   *Demands money back*

Yes, that's an apt example.

Well, where do we draw the line then?

You think 8.1 > 10.5 is equivalent to 10.3.7 > 10.3.9?

In the case of the former, you upgraded OSX knowing (as advertised) that there would be issues with Classic apps, and that compatibility would be spotty. It was practically advertised by Apple. In the case of the 10.3.9 update, it's unreasonable to expect the customer to be aware of incompatibilities before buying.

Now, I do think it's unfair that Aspyr should take the hit for Apple's error, but either way zbah deserves his money back. How Apple/Aspyr structure that is up to them, but caveat emptor shouldn't apply to point-point releases.

reefdog wrote:

ConnertheCat wrote:

reefdog wrote:

Yes, that's an apt example.

Well, where do we draw the line then?

You think 8.1 > 10.5 is equivalent to 10.3.7 > 10.3.9?

In the case of the former, you upgraded OSX knowing (as advertised) that there would be issues with Classic apps, and that compatibility would be spotty. It was practically advertised by Apple. In the case of the 10.3.9 update, it's unreasonable to expect the customer to be aware of incompatibilities before buying.

Now, I do think it's unfair that Aspyr should take the hit for Apple's error, but either way zbah deserves his money back. How Apple/Aspyr structure that is up to them, but caveat emptor shouldn't apply to point-point releases.

The problem occurs in 10.4, not 10.3.9.

Then his machine is really smurfed up.  I recommend a reinstall of the OS.

OpenGL is becoming more usable. But even nVidia's Linux drivers are better (performance and gfx-wise) in games [UT2k4 for instance] than Apple's.

ConnertheCat wrote:

Then his machine is really smurfed up.  I recommend a reinstall of the OS.

hummm... All things running well on my machine, all ? no, there is just KOTOR, on dattooine - oh my ! I'm such an idiot ! if Dattooine-Kotor is not running, that's surely my system that is crap - all the others apps are not significative, it's Kotor, which serve as a utility for telling if your OS is messed up or not...

no seriously, if i always i buy a game, i have to archive all my stuff, re-install an OS, spend 5 hours on internet to assure me that i have the last driver/patch/ and find tips&trick to makes things work... That's not my concept of "gaming" u know...

so i don't care anymore of the onpengl "thingies", i just want to know, yeah repat after me "Hey brad, (who seems to get involved in this game develeopment) > Is there a patch in the work, or not?"

thks.

Zetetic Apparatchik wrote:

akb825 wrote:

snip

Being able to control the entire system should result in faster, better drivers, not worse. Of course, Apple doesn't control the Gfx cards, and nVidia writes their own drivers on the Linux side...

First of all, there is more to it than just the drivers. Besides, AFAIK, nVidia takes there linux drivers quite seriously. Second of all, since Linux is open source, there are probably thousands of people working on it at once, which means the implementation of OpenGL can be updated more quickly with each change in OpenGL, to make the transition to the drivers better. Everybody in the community can contribute. With Apple, there are only the Apple engineers. Apple makes the drivers, too. Besides, as I said before, there are other factors contributing to the lack of speed. I'm sure that the drivers could use a little work, though.

The problem isn't OpenGL; it's that OGL is used on multiple levels in OSX. The need to not incorporate new extensions before they're thoroughly QAed slows things down, and optimizations for one app can impact another. Surely no one wants their 2D desktop rendering fluxed up because Apple rushed a 5% framerate boost for Doom 3, or cleaned up Dantooine?

OpenGL is fine to date on Windows, but there it's used for little besides games and workstation apps, one app at a time if at all. Desktop rendering and/or DirectX/D3D stand apart and don't interact with OGL.

More on OpenGL

Finally got my R9700 working in my PC again and I just got the Catalyst 5.8 drivers. Interesting it says the problems in Dantooine have been finally fixed. Haven't tried it out yet in either KOTOR or KOTOR2 but hopefully this is a prelude of what could come in X.4.3.

Anyone have enough mana to summon him back?

Every time a reply is made to this thread, Brad kills a baby kitten.