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#1 2003-02-13 1:01 pm

The New Guy
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Registered: 2000-10-18
Posts: 3422

Should a Man be Forceably Medicated so he Can be Killed?

I heard a story on NPR that got me thinking, and I was wondering what you all thought about it.

Here's the synopsis:

Medication
NPR's Libby Lewis reports on a federal appeals court ruling that an Arkansas inmate can be medicated to make him sane enough to execute.  The court said the medication was the best thing for his health, and that beyond that point, the court need not consider.  The inmate argued that, with the end result being execution, the medication was not the best thing for his health.

Here's the link to the story:http://discover.npr.org/rundowns/rundown.jhtml?prgId=2&prgDate=current (You'll need to scroll down about 2/3 of the way.

Being that I oppose the death penalty, I think the whole situation is wrong. But if I were the judge, I'd rule that if the doctor gave this person medication, he'd be violating his Hippocratic Oath. (First, do no harm.)

What do you think?


The car of the future is a train with a bike waiting at the other end.

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#2 2003-02-13 1:07 pm

registered_user
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Re: Should a Man be Forceably Medicated so he Can be Killed?

Well, I'm at work, so I won't listen to the audio.  But I don't really understand.  If the argument is that he is not deemed insane by the courts because there is medication available and the he takes to level him out, then I have no problem with it.  I imagine that without the meds, this guy might have been tried and pled insanity, but given the meds, his insanity plea was rejected.  Again, I'm speculating.

Why would someone need to be made sane in order to execute him?  I don't think the lethal injection or chair really care what sort of mood you're in.

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#3 2003-02-13 1:23 pm

Mustapha Mond
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Re: Should a Man be Forceably Medicated so he Can be Killed?

Going entirely on hearsay, I understand the situation to be this: This guy was insane and committed crimes while insane and found guilty of committing the crimes while insane. But the law is that an insane person cannot be given the death penalty. So the state wants to make him sane so they can kill him.

It's totally f'ed up in my opinion. If he's insane, and it's his insanity that caused him to committ the crimes, and his insanity can be cured, then why not treat him and make him a productive member of society? Who exactly is being benefitted by killing him at that point?

I'm against the death penalty for a variety of reasons, but in a situation like this I think we can see that this isn't about justice; it's about revenge. Anyone who would heal someone only to make them fit for killing is ten times the maniac of anyone on deathrow.

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#4 2003-02-13 1:31 pm

Tallgeese
Homo loquax nonnumquam sapiens
Registered: 2000-10-17
Posts: 34923

Re: Should a Man be Forceably Medicated so he Can be Killed?

What doctor would prescribe medication, anyway?


I still believe in liberalism today as much as I ever did, but, oh, there was a happy time when I believed in liberals.

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#5 2003-02-13 1:36 pm

The Great Prophet Omega
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Registered: 2001-09-18
Posts: 2211

Re: Should a Man be Forceably Medicated so he Can be Killed?

Now the ugly side of me os going to rear it's head.

Fry him anyway. Murders are murders. Anyone should face the consequences for their actions.


I am the great and powerfull OZ! Pay no attention to the man behind that curtain!

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#6 2003-02-13 1:41 pm

Andrew234
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From: Cincinnati
Registered: 2002-12-07
Posts: 66

Re: Should a Man be Forceably Medicated so he Can be Killed?

I agree.  They should either let him live and treat him, or for god sakes if you're going to kill him kill him while he's insane.

Going entirely on hearsay, I understand the situation to be this: This guy was insane and committed crimes while insane and found guilty of committing the crimes while insane. But the law is that an insane person cannot be given the death penalty. So the state wants to make him sane so they can kill him.

It's totally f'ed up in my opinion. If he's insane, and it's his insanity that caused him to committ the crimes, and his insanity can be cured, then why not treat him and make him a productive member of society? Who exactly is being benefitted by killing him at that point?

I'm against the death penalty for a variety of reasons, but in a situation like this I think we can see that this isn't about justice; it's about revenge. Anyone who would heal someone only to make them fit for killing is ten times the maniac of anyone on deathrow.

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#7 2003-02-13 1:41 pm

registered_user
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Re: Should a Man be Forceably Medicated so he Can be Killed?

Did the guy know about this medication at the time of the murder?  Was he just in a willful lapse of that medication?  I think that's important.  As far as actual mental condition at the time of death, that's a very odd requirement.  I'd think that all the important decisions would have been at trial, not right before execution.

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#8 2003-02-13 1:52 pm

tievsky2
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From: Chicago
Registered: 2001-10-22
Posts: 2496

Re: Should a Man be Forceably Medicated so he Can be Killed?

Actually, Mustapha, the guy was deemed sane at the time.  It's during his time in prison that he's been judged to have become insane.

That said, I agree with Reg.  I think the primary justification for the death penalty is deterrence.  Whether the guy's medicated or not won't have an effect upon the deterrent effect--therefore, don't prescribe his freedom unnecessarily.

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#9 2003-02-13 2:00 pm

dinerfan
a natural, zesty enterprise
From: the sunny side
Registered: 2000-12-31
Posts: 11093

Re: Should a Man be Forceably Medicated so he Can be Killed?

NPR's Libby Lewis

Ideal name for an NPR reporter, by the way.

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#10 2003-02-13 2:39 pm

Mustapha Mond
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Re: Should a Man be Forceably Medicated so he Can be Killed?

Actually, Mustapha, the guy was deemed sane at the time.  It's during his time in prison that he's been judged to have become insane.

I see. Well, that's better than how the case was originally explained to me. I feel a little less like we're surrounded by maniacs.

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#11 2003-02-13 5:44 pm

Blueboy626
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From: Chicago, IL USA
Registered: 1999-10-30
Posts: 3300

Re: Should a Man be Forceably Medicated so he Can be Killed?

Actually, Mustapha, the guy was deemed sane at the time.  It's during his time in prison that he's been judged to have become insane.

If this is true or can be proven true-then fry him, what someone becomes after they're incarcerated should not have a bearing on the original sentence. Not unlike the numerous cases of people on death row becoming "born-again" christian do-gooders...doesn't negate the fact they were murderous thugs before, and no amount of repentance will ever bring their victims back to life.

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#12 2003-02-13 6:18 pm

Cyberpawz
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Posts: 10172

Re: Should a Man be Forceably Medicated so he Can be Killed?

Actually, Mustapha, the guy was deemed sane at the time.  It's during his time in prison that he's been judged to have become insane.

I see. Well, that's better than how the case was originally explained to me. I feel a little less like we're surrounded by maniacs.

Now I wouldn't say that...

Cyberpawz


Governing sense, mind and intellect, intent of liberation, free from desire, fear and anger, the sage is forever free.

Bhagavad Gita (c.B.C. 400)

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#13 2003-02-14 11:21 am

Tallgeese
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Registered: 2000-10-17
Posts: 34923

Re: Should a Man be Forceably Medicated so he Can be Killed?

NPR's Libby Lewis

Ideal name for an NPR reporter, by the way.

Yea, because NPR is LIBERAL!  HAHAHA! Good one.

Oh wait, no it wasn't.  roll


I still believe in liberalism today as much as I ever did, but, oh, there was a happy time when I believed in liberals.

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#14 2003-02-14 11:24 am

hillbilly
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From: wiping my ass with a French fl
Registered: 2002-03-19
Posts: 801

Re: Should a Man be Forceably Medicated so he Can be Killed?

NPR's Libby Lewis

Ideal name for an NPR reporter, by the way.

Yea, because NPR is LIBERAL!  HAHAHA! Good one.

Oh wait, no it wasn't.  roll

It is (I happen to listen to it every day).  "All Things Considered" is especially liberal, not to mention the Diane Rehm Show (heard around here on WAMU), which NEVER presents the right-of-center POV honestly.


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#15 2003-02-14 5:59 pm

MysticCow
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Posts: 4170

Re: Should a Man be Forceably Medicated so he Can be Killed?

He was tried while sane

He was found guilty while sane.

He was sentenced to die while sane.

What the hell is the problem?


"We take direct actions against terrorists in the intelligence community; if & we think that direct action will involve killing an American, we get specific permission to do that."--Director of National Intelligence Dennis Blair

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#16 2003-02-14 6:19 pm

benightedbastard
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From: Western Australia
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Re: Should a Man be Forceably Medicated so he Can be Killed?

Maybe the ruling was death, with no caveats for permission to alter his mental state.

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#17 2003-02-14 6:43 pm

Cyberpawz
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Registered: 2001-11-14
Posts: 10172

Re: Should a Man be Forceably Medicated so he Can be Killed?

Maybe the ruling was death, with no caveats for permission to alter his mental state.

I've seen people snap from other things than this.  The fact that he lost it in prison, awaiting his death gets me to wonder...

Is he truly guilty?

Funny to hear that from me?  Well it brings up a question, next to being in prison, why did he loose his sanity? The thought of death?  He shouldn't of killed those people then...

Something doesn't seem right, I don't know...if he snapped that easily, I can't truthfully say that he was 100% there when he committed the crimes...a question was, how long was it till he snapped?  A week, a day, a month, several years?

These are they types of cases that need to be looked over again, for 100% accuracy...

Something doesn't set with me correctly... I just don't know why, but it doesn't...

Cyberpawz


Governing sense, mind and intellect, intent of liberation, free from desire, fear and anger, the sage is forever free.

Bhagavad Gita (c.B.C. 400)

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#18 2003-02-15 12:05 am

bratboy
keeping the poor down
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From: Austin, Texas
Registered: 2003-01-19
Posts: 34275

Re: Should a Man be Forceably Medicated so he Can be Killed?

No...though I'm against all uses of the death penalty anyway.

It puts doctors in a horrible position...and medicating a mental illness is not "curing" a mental illness.  There just seems to be something sick about medicating a mental case so that he's sane enough to kill.


"One thing we've learned is there's a difference between being disappointed and having madmen in authority."

                                                                   --Paul Krugman

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#19 2003-02-15 12:13 am

Cyberpawz
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Registered: 2001-11-14
Posts: 10172

Re: Should a Man be Forceably Medicated so he Can be Killed?

No...though I'm against all uses of the death penalty anyway.

It puts doctors in a horrible position...and medicating a mental illness is not "curing" a mental illness.  There just seems to be something sick about medicating a mental case so that he's sane enough to kill.

Problem was he was sane when he killed... not before he did...

He went crazy in the joint...

Cyberpawz


Governing sense, mind and intellect, intent of liberation, free from desire, fear and anger, the sage is forever free.

Bhagavad Gita (c.B.C. 400)

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#20 2003-02-15 12:28 am

bratboy
keeping the poor down
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From: Austin, Texas
Registered: 2003-01-19
Posts: 34275

Re: Should a Man be Forceably Medicated so he Can be Killed?

Problem was he was sane when he killed... not before he did...

He went crazy in the joint...

I wrote everything I said with that in mind.


"One thing we've learned is there's a difference between being disappointed and having madmen in authority."

                                                                   --Paul Krugman

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#21 2003-02-15 8:43 am

MysticCow
Junior Assistant Poobah (Probationary)
From: Somewhere
Registered: 2002-07-29
Posts: 4170

Re: Should a Man be Forceably Medicated so he Can be Killed?

No...though I'm against all uses of the death penalty anyway.

It puts doctors in a horrible position...and medicating a mental illness is not "curing" a mental illness.  There just seems to be something sick about medicating a mental case so that he's sane enough to kill.

But he did everything WHILE HE WAS COMPETENT!!!!!  He was sentenced WHILE HE WAS COMPETENT!!!!!!  Next time, you'll get to see the Hammer of Truth (tm) pound it into people's heads.


"We take direct actions against terrorists in the intelligence community; if & we think that direct action will involve killing an American, we get specific permission to do that."--Director of National Intelligence Dennis Blair

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#22 2003-02-15 10:37 am

bratboy
keeping the poor down
Royal Wombat
From: Austin, Texas
Registered: 2003-01-19
Posts: 34275

Re: Should a Man be Forceably Medicated so he Can be Killed?

MysticCow wrote:

But he did everything WHILE HE WAS COMPETENT!!!!!  He was sentenced WHILE HE WAS COMPETENT!!!!!!  Next time, you'll get to see the Hammer of Truth (tm) pound it into people's heads.

*ahem*

The Supreme Court has ruled that it is unconstitutional to execute someone who is not sane.  It is akin to "cruel and unusual" punishment.  It matters not if the person was sane during the commission of the crime or not.  It's the fact that there are insane at the time of execution that matters.

I know some of you would have every crazy, child, and retard who was convicted of murder put in the chair, but we need at least some moral guidelines to follow, no?

roll


"One thing we've learned is there's a difference between being disappointed and having madmen in authority."

                                                                   --Paul Krugman

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#23 2003-02-15 11:10 am

Cyberpawz
Member
Registered: 2001-11-14
Posts: 10172

Re: Should a Man be Forceably Medicated so he Can be Killed?

bratboy wrote:

But he did everything WHILE HE WAS COMPETENT!!!!!  He was sentenced WHILE HE WAS COMPETENT!!!!!!  Next time, you'll get to see the Hammer of Truth (tm) pound it into people's heads.

*ahem*

The Supreme Court has ruled that it is unconstitutional to execute someone who is not sane.  It is akin to "cruel and unusual" punishment.  It matters not if the person was sane during the commission of the crime or not.  It's the fact that there are insane at the time of execution that matters.

I know some of you would have every crazy, child, and retard who was convicted of murder put in the chair, but we need at least some moral guidelines to follow, no?

roll

That a little uncalled for maul...

Cyberpawz

P.S.  BTW, the SJC ruled that a person can not be sent do death row if the person is mentally retarted...not that he can't be put to death. (and at the time he was not)


Governing sense, mind and intellect, intent of liberation, free from desire, fear and anger, the sage is forever free.

Bhagavad Gita (c.B.C. 400)

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