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Chickenhawk wrote:

Slow Burn wrote:

crazy stuff

And kids, that is why drugs are bad.


I'll guess from the fact that you cannot even spell theory correctly, that you have no background in science, and do not know the actual definition of theory.

Yeah, it's hard to take someone's opinion on science seriously when they don't know the fundamentals of the scientific method. It's also hard to take someone's opinion on religion seriously when they don't know the fundamentals of Buddhism.


I can't believe how our schools have failed our children. I read some moron's letter to the editor which  said "Why are we teaching the theory of evolution? Everyone knows that theory is another word for guess, we're teaching our children wild atheist guesses!"

I didn't attend public school K-12, I attended Catholic schools. It's sad that supposed secular public schools give less understanding of basic knowledge than a religious school.

lamewing wrote:

Now, from what I understand, the schools want the teachers to mention that biological evolution isn't the only possibility, but that there might be an intelligent force behind the evolution of life on earth (not to mentionthe possilbility in the several billion other galaxies just "hanging" around). Is this correct?

Unfortunately thats NOT what they want the teachers to mention.  They want the ID "theory" mentioned which states that life is to complex to have happened through evolution whether an intelligence was involved or not (Although obviously to a great enough universal intelligence, evolution could easily be implemented as part of the creation process).  The whole movement is a shabby attempt at deluding people into accepting a literal interpretation of Genesis as a scientific theory.

   I don't even care if teachers want to mention speculation on the nature of existence, even in a science class. Some of the most important scientific breakthroughs came about through dreams and intuition. But insisting speculation (motivated by a single tradition) be taught as legitimate science is thoroughly destructive. No matter the intention, the deliberate spreading of delusion is an evil act.

oatmeal wrote:

Got any more links on that? That's fascinating! 

Here's another article with quotes from the main author of the study:
http://www.livescience.com/animalworld/ … venom.html

Here's the fellow's webpage (he calls himself "venomdoc"...he studies all sorts of venomous creatures):
http://www.venomdoc.com/

Tons of stuff on that site on all sorts of crazy creatures (even a toxic primate!) and their toxins.  Lots of pictures.  Cool site.

Here is the abstract of the actual article in Nature:
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/va … 04328.html

Hank Rearden wrote:

Oh, one more thing.  Some time ago I read an article about some researchers who were studying tropical birds.  They noticed that, after handling certain birds, if they happened to get their hands near their mouths, their mouths would go numb.  So, they started looking a bit closer and, voila...toxic birds!

From http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20041106/fob3.asp

In 1989, Dumbacher discovered the first instance of toxins in bird feathers when he and his colleagues were catching and releasing forest birds in fine nets. Pitohuis, birds the size of jays, scratched and bit the researchers' hands. The cuts stung, and "the first thing you do is put the cut to your mouth," Dumbacher recalls. When he did this, his mouth tingled and began to go numb.

See:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer … t=Citation

Turns out that the birds seem to get their toxins from the beetles that they eat:
http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20041106/fob3.asp

Wow! The marvels of God's design....

oatmeal wrote:

More including links at http://arstechnica.com/journals/science … 23/1918/p1

Full paper, with pictures of some of the bones at:

http://www.smu.edu/smunews/dallasaurus/ … sFinal.pdf

That was awesome!  Thanks for the links guys.  I have been  leerking here for awhile, but that was awesome.

http://www.salon.com/wire/ap/archive.ht … KTNOB.html

A University of Kansas course devoted to debunking creationism and intelligent design has been canceled after the professor caused a furor by sending an e-mail mocking Christian fundamentalists.

Twenty-five students had enrolled in the course, "Special Topics in Religion: Intelligent Design, Creationism and Other Religious Mythologies," which had been scheduled for the spring.

Professor Paul Mirecki, chairman of religious studies, canceled the class Wednesday, the university said.

He later apologized, and did so again Thursday in a statement issued by the university.

"I made a mistake in not leading by example, in this student organization e-mail forum, the importance of discussing differing viewpoints in a civil and respectful manner," he said.

---------------------------

I think so many problems could be solved if people would stop and think if they have different definitions some times (applies to words like theory and hypothesis as well).

Intelligent design proponents willing to be paid to do actual research? Not a chance!

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/04/weeki … 4good.html

Which should end the argument, ID cannot produce a credible scientific study to explain anything.

Tetrachloride wrote:

http://www.salon.com/wire/ap/archive.html?wire=D8E7KTNOB.html

A University of Kansas course devoted to debunking creationism and intelligent design has been canceled after the professor caused a furor by sending an e-mail mocking Christian fundamentalists.

Twenty-five students had enrolled in the course, "Special Topics in Religion: Intelligent Design, Creationism and Other Religious Mythologies," which had been scheduled for the spring.

Professor Paul Mirecki, chairman of religious studies, canceled the class Wednesday, the university said.

He later apologized, and did so again Thursday in a statement issued by the university.

"I made a mistake in not leading by example, in this student organization e-mail forum, the importance of discussing differing viewpoints in a civil and respectful manner," he said.

---------------------------

wow, umm, I happen to subscribe to the listserve in question, and it looks likesome inside jokes exacerbated the situation, further, I fail to see how an ID proponent looking through an atheist/agnostic listserv can be anything but muckraking.

if anyone wants, ill post the origional listserv discussion in full.

sorry for the length(threads are in chronological order from time of most recent post[starting from earliest], I think, because I dont have time to rearrange them all, its taking enough time as it is)

Original email

[kusoma-discuss] I.D. & Creationism class to be taught at KU this spring!   Inbo
       
Paul Mirecki    
<------------> to kusoma-discuss  Nov 19
To my fellow damned,

Its true, the fundies have been wanting to get I.D. and creationism into the
Kansas public schools, so I thought "why don't I do it?"

I will teach the class, with several other lefty KU professors in the
sciences and humanities. Class is:

REL 602 Special Topics in Religion: Intelligent Design, Creationisms and
other Religious Mythologies.

Tuesdays 7:00-9:30pm. Smith Hall room 100. Open to undergrads and grads.
Enrollment limited to about 120. 3 credit hours.

The fundies want it all taught in a science class, but this will be a nice
slap in their big fat face by teaching it as a religious studies class under
the category "mythology". I expect it will draw much media attention. The
university public relations office will have a press release on it in a few
weeks, I also have contacts at several regional newspapers.

Of course, I won't actually be teaching I.D. and creationisms, but rather
I'll be teaching ABOUT I.D. and creationisms as modern mythologies,
indicating that these ideas have no place in a public school science class,
but can certainly be analyzed in humanities classes for their function in
society. Basic approach is my usual: anthropology with a focus on religious
thought and behavior.

Any ideas for textbooks, guest lecturers and panels would be appreciated. So
far, six faculty have eagerly signed up to lecture. I can probably pull
Chancellor Hemenway into this also, especially in the light of his public
comments supporting evolution.

Doing my part to piss of the religious right,
Evil Dr. P.

reply emails:(im leaving out those that just have to do with textbook suggestions, auditing, etc.) and im removing email addresses, if you want to ask someone something, I can pass it along or you can join the listserv(yahoo groops)

Bruce S.    
<-----------> to kusoma-discuss Nov 20
This is great! If intelligent design propagandists are
disingenuously waving the flag of open inquiry, then
give them some pokes in the eye in the name of
unassailable academic freedom. No taboo topics. Bring
it on!

Now Mirecki, as a religious studies prof, will be
approaching ID/Creationism from the standpoint of
mythology, not as science the way a biology prof might
do. A sociology department could approach it from the
angle of urban myth and the spread of misinformation
by dogged repetition and modern PR techniques, or in
conjunction with a history department could present it
in a course on revisionist histories and conspiracy
theorists - the alleged conspiracy to hide "flaws" in
evolution, the "conspiracy" to conceal evidence
debunking the Holocaust, the "conspiracy" to
assassinate JFK and hang it all on Oswald, NASA's
falsification of the moon landings, the medical
conspiracy to deny people miraculous cures from
"alternative" therapies, the consipracy by government
to cover up alien visits from space. ID activism is at
root a classic conspiracy theory cult run rampant, and
its spread follows that model, and should be studied
as such.

While we're at it, someone needs to create a KU course
on the history of pornographic art and literature -
and actually assign and discuss real, explicit
pornography from throughout history - in light of its
social functions and effects, real and alleged, and
the various forms it has assumed with changing tastes.
As long as fundies are accusing university faculty of
teaching pornography gratuitously, a response with
serious academic purpose that actually does involve
frankly erotic material would be a grand judo-like
maneuver. Leave them squawking on their bellies with
no legal options. All topics are fair game in higher
education, or ought to be, if seriously, competently
approached.

This all harmonizes with my contention that ID
*should* be taught in public schools, as part of a
science curriculum that discusses the true methods of
science versus pseudo- and non-science, so that we may
eventually have an adult population that recognizes
the hallmarks of solid-gold bunk, the methodology of
mumbo-jumbo, and isn't taken in by ID, dowsing,
homeopathy, chiropractic, fad diets, psychics and
trance-channelers, faith healers and Feng Shui, and
all the other mad hatter "disciplines" demanding our
respect. Remember, the answer to ill-informed
credulity is to better explain the criteria for
credibilty, and give people the tools they need to get
at facts. If schools aren't doing that proactively, we
get the dim-witted voters and school board members we
deserve, and end up playing the stupid, lame game of
defense we have on our hands today. Go on the offense
and mop up these dripping droolers so we stop sliding
on their effluent!

Slavering hungrily myself,
Bruce

the article refrenced within the following quote is rather insightful

[kusoma-discuss] My turn to write a letter
       
Jim B.
<----------------------> to kusoma-discuss Nov 23

Here�s the letter I wrote to the Journal-World this morning, regarding today�s article, �KU Official Responds to Course Critics� http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2005/nov/2 … city_local



To the editor:



The Ayatollahs of Kansas have spoken again, this time to the heathen university in Lawrence.  Their message:  �Stop this pernicious teaching of things we don�t like or suffer the consequences.  We can�t allow intellectual curiosity to interfere with our sacred intelligent design doctrine.�

            People asking themselves the question of why the fight against those forcing religious dogma into our educational system is important should pay attention as state legislators like Kay O�Connor threaten Dr. Paul Mirecki and the University of Kansas for the crime of doing what they do best:  educating.

            To answer the question of why KU should have a class about intelligent design, I�ll adopt the popular phrase of the ID crowd � KU should �teach the controversy� of intelligent design.  Too bad for the ID folks that KU isn�t as easily hoodwinked as the Board of Education was to be coerced into pretending that intelligent design is science.

            I find it funny how weak-kneed the intelligent design crowd really is when it comes down to it � they feel free to bully their dogma into the public schools, where they know their phony-baloney so-called science won�t be subjected to any scientific rigor, but then they loudly cry foul as soon as the 800-lb. intellectual giant steps into the ring.  It leads me to ask them, �What�s the matter?  Afraid to prove there�s something to intelligent design?�  They are afraid, because they know there�s nothing behind the curtain of intelligent design but the hot air of conservative politicians.





Who really knows if they will print it, considering they�re probably swamped with letters on intelligent design, but it sure felt good to say it anyway.



Jim

(meta quote, sorry)

Jim B.    
<--------------------> to kusoma-discuss Nov 24
Thank you, sir -- I think we're coming into a time where saying what we
really feel is going to be critical.

As for Dr. Mirecki and this article supposedly designed to show how
intolerant we are, it's such a crock.  Like we're going to be shamed
for our honesty.  I'll be honest, I agree with Mirecki and I don't care
who knows.  Go ahead, send my e-mails to John Calvert, Kay O'Connor,
the Kansas BoE crazies, and all those other fatheaded, bigoted,
disingenuous ID liars.  I'm not going to be threatened.

It's time we say it directly:  it is not a bad thing to be intolerant
of people using deception, manipulation, coercion and out-and-out lies
to damage the state of Kansas for their own benefit.  Let's be public
about it, let's not hold back.

Jim

On Nov 23, 2005, at 2:41 PM, Bruce S. wrote:

> Fantastic letter, Jim! You guys are so much better at this than I am,
> when you put your minds to it. Absolutely the right message, and the
> right tone, Jim. Didn't know you had that kind of spice! A man of
> many parts, indeed.
>
> Bruce

[kusoma-discuss] Another Article      
prezandrew    
<-----------------> to kusoma-discuss Nov 25
I just came back to Lawrence from Wichita, there was another article
about Dr. Mirecki's class.

The fundies look like ranting children, and their lapdogs in the
legislator have made nothing but the most outlandish and pathetic
statements.

The highlight of the Wichita Eagle article was the line: "We have to
set a standard that it's not culturally acceptable to mock
Christianity in America,". This came from State Sen. Brownlee.

But of course it's culturally acceptable, and encouraged by many
churches, to mock secularists and make us America's scape goat. And
people wonder why I can't stand Christianity?

The link is here:

http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/living/13252419.htm

-Andrew

Nov 26
Sounds like this sentiment about the acceptability of discriminating
against atheists is fodder for a new letter to the editor- does
someone want to write it?

Stephanie

I think the next point is alspo that Mirecki said nothing against Christianity as such, but
against the fundamentalists who have been trying to shoehorn non-science into the
science curriculum. THAT is the group he is metaphorically going to slap the big fat face
of (you see how quickly they turn the other cheek, too.) And it is a much needed slapping,
in the "snap out of it!" tradition. Reason has passed through them like it didn't exist. They
are in a paranoid trance, and the shock of seeing their views accurately and fairly
described as mythology in a university class conducted by real scholars - not the fake
ones at the Discovery Institute and the state BoE - is just the fair-game kind of slap that is
called for. They have had six years to show they are capable of listening in good faith, and
have shown that that is nowhere in their actual capacities of intentions.

-Bruce S.

[kusoma-discuss] From LJWorld.com: 2nd KU class denies status of science to design theory     
to kusoma-discuss Nov 27
Paul Mirecki sent you this:

2nd KU class denies status of science to  design theory

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2005/nov/2 … gn_theory/

--------
Paul Mirecki attached this additional message:

Dear SOMA-ites,

John Hoopes in Anthropology is also offering a class on Intelligent Design, this time as one of the pseudosciences. Check out the LJW article.

Cheers,
EDP

--------

Jon V. to kusoma-discuss Nov 29 (6 days ago)

"If you read his e-mail, it's not a short e-mail. It's not a little
blurb. It's venomous," said Rep. Brenda Landwehr,

Really now? After reviewing the Email, there's 6 paragraphs. Two sentences out of that could be considered "venomous". The rest is informative. Does the good politician not know how to read? Or does she just read too much into things because someone hurt her feelings? I'm inclined to believe the latter.

~Jon

Keiv    
<-------------------> to kusoma-discuss Nov 29 (6 days ago)
Think like a fundie Jon.  Anyone who doesn't love Jesus with all
their heart is venomous by default, duh )

Jon Voisey    
<VoijaRisa@gmail.com> to kusoma-discuss
     More options      Nov 29 (6 days ago)
I don't have anything against Jesus. Just his fan club that treis to constantly martyr themselves. If they got it right and actually started nailing eachother to crosses and dying en masse, I don't think I'd have a problem, but this whining like petulant school children has got to stop.

<3 to all the newbies joining the list

~Jon

jon wrote:

Jon    
<-> to kusoma-discuss Nov 30 (5 days ago)
I've been a bit disgusted with the whiny response from lawmakers,
journalists, and other students that have been published in
newspapers. It's all been extremely one sided and mischaracteristic.
Thus, I've prepared a response that I'm considering submitting to the
UDK. I thought I'd post it here and get a few responses and impressions:

       The recent e-mail from Dr. Mirecki has generated quite a stir amongst
the religious crowd. However, I would venture to say that this
response has been over dramatized, is hypocritical, and ironically,
unchristian. Let's look at each of these claims:
       First, Rep. Brenda Landwehr has been quoted as saying "[i]f you read
his e-mail, it's not a short e-mail� It's venomous." However, as a
member of SOMA that received the e-mail in question (which is
available in the archives to anyone that joins the KUSOMA-discuss
Yahoo group), I can say this is nothing short of a lie. The Email
contained six paragraphs of which only two sentences (the ones
repeatedly touted by the media) can be construed as "venomous." The
rest are informative, giving time, location, and content of the
course, or are asking for input on textbooks or guest lecturers.
       Secondly, those in arms over Mirecki's comments need to get off their
high horses. While Mirecki's comments were mean spirited, it pales in
comparison to the vitriol spewed from those of the fundamentalists.
Additionally, Mirecki's comments were made in a private forum, while
fundamentalists continuously slander anyone opposing their agenda as
"evilutionists", "god-haters", "unpatriotic", or a laundry list of
other names, most of which I won't bother listing as I'm sure they
can't be published. And most of these comments are publicly and
proudly displayed on the websites of ID proponents. Again, this isn't
a case of Christians being attacked, but instead, a reminder that what
goes around, comes around.
       Lastly, Christians seem to not want to take this "slap in their
faces" lightly. More than one member of our legislature has discussed
responding by slashing funding for KU in response to Mirecki
exercising his right to free speech. Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but I
seem to remember that Jesus said something about turning the other
cheek (Matthew 5:39 anyone?). Perhaps it's time for believers to start
acting like the Christians they claim to be.
       Again, I don't condone the mud slinging done by either side and I'm
not going to venture an opinion on who started it. I will say that
instead of acting like petulant children, both sides need to discuss
the matter in a mature manner, but this isn't going to happen until
fundamentalists realize they hold no moral high ground and are just as
covered in mud as their opponents. Second, someone is going to have to
take the first step and ignore the accusations and name calling from
the other side long enough to reestablish communication. Who bears
this responsibility? I don't know. But for you religious type out
there, try asking yourself this: WWJD?


~Jon

Bruce S.
<----> to kusoma-discuss Nov 30 (5 days ago)
As Ben Bradley would say "Run that baby!"

Seriously, a well-written argument, which invites these particular
Christians to measure themselves by their own yardstick. Of course my
personal style is to question the relevance of their yardstick at
all, as you will see in my most recent letter to the Journal-World on
this same brouhaha, which shouldd appear in the next couple of days.
(I won't quote it here, because I don't want to give any mole-types
even a minute's jump on the response.) It is pretty direct.
Probably "antogonize" somebody, which isn't hard to do with paranoid
conspiracy theorists.

BTW, Adrian had a magnificent example in the paper today of what he
does so well - a good natured but absolutely right-on reasonable
critique of the ID confusion. I practically wept with admiration.
Thank you, you fine human being!

Bruce

Bruce S.
<-> to kusoma-discuss Nov 30 (5 days ago)
Well, we could accumulate moles to the point where any semblance of "what is said here,
stays here" is impossible to expect. Some people, when left to the honor system, just steal
from the till and say "well, what do you expect if you don't lock it?" Pretty sad. Pretty
cynical. We have been, ironically, too trusting and guileless.  I'm proud that we never
decided to hide the list from unknown readers, as we certainly could have done. I think
that says a lot.

I notice nobody is quoting any of the more calmly reasoned and pleasant exchanges from
our history here. Just diggin' for dirt. How kindly these folks are. How honorable and
forthcoming. It's a bit like finding out that strangers who came to your open house are
really just looking for things that have value on the street, or that might embarass you and
make you look much worse than you are, on balance.

The anger you read here, folks, is the exasperation of people, young and old, who are
tired of being told that honest unbelief is an unforgivable sin, and that we are standing on
the edge of eternal punishment if we don't get right on "faith" alone. That our reason is
the enemy, and accepting absolute truths on someone else's say-so is the way to go. That
this is a fitting thing to teach children. That religious freedom in America only really
means the freedom to be the kind of theist you like, until the Rapture and Armageddon
sorts it out, when those people who sincerely guessed wrong get their comeuppance. This
is the anger of thinking, caring people who find such beliefs horrifying. petty and cruel,
and see them as the root of too much suffering. It is truthfully our compassion and deep
moral concern that makes us rage here to one another, in the face of a world that seems
so often to have gone mad with religious fever. At long last, is being a simple human who
wants the best we can do to be good enough, is this so worthy of contempt? Is it worthy of
absolute punishment?

I do not believe it because I CANNOT believe it. Not in my wildest imagination. It is too
horrible, and too unjust. And if everything my heart and mind tells me is true and good
turns out to be wrong, I can only say "what almighty God decided that this was how it had
to be?" Is this love?

Bruce S.
- Hide quoted text -



--- In kusoma-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "prezandrew" <stangla@k...> wrote:
>
> --- In kusoma-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "Laney" <yb_normal4@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Only something as fantastic as this controversy could get the National
> > Review's attention. Gag me with a fork.
> >
> > http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/b … 301455.asp
> >
>
>
> This is compeltely insane. Dr. Mirecki has every right to describe
> personal experiences and share his opinions on any subject he wishes.
>
> My friends, behold the great campassion of fundamentalist Christianity.
>
> Jesus must be spinning in his grave... oh wait
>
> -Andrew
>

Keiv    
<> to kusoma-discuss Dec 1 (4 days ago)
Would Christians like it if the media looked through their email and
posted it in newspapers worldwide?  We wouldn't even have to look
into their private files to find dirt, just go to any fundamentalist
church on sunday or pick up their free literature.  Search through
soma's email archives all you want, but you'll never find any gems
like the ones you hear from fundies, i.e.:

"all atheists are America-hating communists"

"faggots burn in hell"

"god cursed native americans, that's why they have red skin."

"women were made to serve men"

In the soma emails you'll find us saying things like:

"I think all people should have religious freedom."  or

"I have friends of many different faiths."

You'll be hard pressed to find those sentiments uttered by fundies.

I really think this whole "agnostic makes makes jokes in private" is
not newsworthy.  Search through anyone's email and you'll find
something embarassing.

The fact is that Dr. Mirecki is a good teacher, and he's been
teaching a class on the Bible for several years and as far as I know
has done an excellent job of it.

I don't think this new class is being taught out of spite.  From my
conversations with Dr. Mirecki, it appears to be an extremely
interesting and fair course about an important issue to religious
believers and unbelievers alike.  Also, videos and notes from every
class will be available online for anyone in the world to access -
so anyone can judge for themselves if anything inappropriate happens
(I expect if there is an incident, it will be caused by the
fundamentalists, not by Mirecki).

To Dr. Mirecki: Best of luck with the class, and I hope this whole
mole issue passes soon.

To Mr. John Altevogt, stick around, maybe you'll learn something.

Jon Voisey    
<VoijaRisa@gmail.com> to kusoma-discuss
     More options      Dec 1 (4 days ago)
Thanks for bringing this up Keiv. I find it amusing because I was opening my Email to start the exact same conversation.

For those that read that website I posted last night, Fundies Say The Darndest Things (FSTDT), it seems that one of the message boards from which quotes were submitted has taken quite an offense. The creator of the website and I both registered to see why they had such a problem with someone going through their public internet forum, and taking their own words, in context.

Yet we were unable to get a single intelligable response. Instead we were met with frothing mouths and vitirol.

The responses were characeristic of the following:

One jackass defending another Jackass, no difference between the two.

I don't need to hear this kind of BS from a buttbuddy of Mr."yaa way". Your knowledge of Christianity is limited to what you read inside FTSTDT's ass (or whatever his name is).

You're a little smurfhead who sits their ridiculing your opponents. Ugh! This is one of the things that really ticks me off. Liberals acting as if they aren't Liberal ***holes!
(NOTE: At that point I hadn't ridiculed this particular poster. Looks like the Christian persecution complex is hard at work. I did later rip into him, but hey, do unto others)

You and Fdst sound nothing like an Independant/moderate , You 2 bigots sound like Fascist Secularist Totalitarian Demonic Trolls (FSTDT).

I enjoy the opportunity to insult you.

You offer us nothing but annoyance and BS and a complete mind jerking waste of F-ing Time .
I guess you have never heard of a Californian Redneck , Were Louder and meaner and we aint afraid to be rude and hostile , And we hate Liberalism with passion .
(NOTE: This member has a nice large picture of a M1911A1 hand gun in his sig)

I hate Mecha , I hate KKK , I hate BlackPanthers , I hate Al-quaida and all other Hate Filled Orgs/groups . I hate all racists equally and that includes you .
(NOTE: Ironic that he seems to have no problem hating anyone that doesn't share his views)

Fred [Phelps] is A democrat
(NOTE: I submitted that to FSTDT's website as an amusing fundie quote)

Its Atheist Scum like you that are getting more and more peope stand up against Bigots like you . btw Rap artist 50 cent is a Republican .
(NOTE: I've never mentioned that I was atheist or even non-christian. Interesting to see how anyone that disagrees is immediately labeled "atheist". I'm also a bit confused about the non-sequiter on fiddy)

one must never miss the opportunity to tick off some braindead lefties who think they're unique.

No, I didn't actually read what you wrote, I only quickly scanned through it to look for something to insult you with. I said before I didn't care what you people said.
(NOTE: I think this about sums up the quote mining)

most liberals are ***holes. Hmmm, actually, all of them are.

I dont read one version of the Bible either . i have a king james and the new american bible and a bunch of others .
(NOTE: I love his attempt at piousness. I had to point out that I have 5 different bibles at home.)

Sorry but I do not read the Book of Mormon or anything Cult related .
(NOTE: So the book of mormon is cult related? I'm glad to know that's where conservatives really stand...)

I don't know what hole you people crawled out of, but I'll bet it was originally dug to be used as a latrine.

Actually Conservatives wrote the dictionary. Liberal morons changed it and made up all new meanings. Did you know that Noah Webster actually wrote the dictionary based on the words in scripture? My oh my how the mighty have fallen thanks to a bunch of liberal pukes.
(NOTE: This was in response to my pointing out that conservatives must use a different dictionary than the rest of the world since they somehow think "disagree" = "attack". Interesting trivia though.)

So what are we to learn from this? As I said in the letter I'm submitting to the UDK today, fundies need to get off their moral high horse. They rightly get upset about quote mining, but I've yet to see any liberals respond with the outright hostility or lunacy that these people do. I've debated with lots of conservatives on other boards before and hold great respect with some of them. But after seeing that crowd, I'm glad I'm not as mentally void as an entire message board of over 10,000 members.

As I keep saying, I'm not really that far left. The right's just gone and jumped off the edge of their flat world.

~Jon

Stephanie K.    
<-> to kusoma-discuss Dec 1 (4 days ago)
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.a … E_ID=47664
Some site called World Net Daily has a nice little bit of drivel about us- one good thing is that they linked to our site so we're getting hits off it.

Your amused webmaster,
Stephanie

On 12/1/05, Jim B.
<-> wrote:

    World Net Daily is made fun of so often on Fark.com for being the crazy religious version of the National Enquirer, like the three-headed Jesus clone and stuff like that.

     

    Jim

laney posted this link: http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2005dec/01 … ?breaking/

then

Bruce S.
<-> to kusoma-discuss Dec 1 (4 days ago)
> "I made a mistake in not leading by example, in this student
> organization e-mail forum, the importance of discussing differing
> viewpoints in a civil and respectful manner," Mirecki said in a
> written statement released by the university today.

How patronizing is this implication that Mirecki is a role model to
influence SOMA's members? All SOMA members are adults, and not all
young, and with a commitment to independent thought and free
expression, not mimicking some trained puppet faculty member versed in
the dogma of political correctness. Is there an approved vocabulary
list for faculty sponsors of student groups? A guide to approved ideas
and attitudes they may consult? How is everyone so darned certain that
WE didn't influence HIM to the rare outburst of intemperate sentiment?
My observation of Mirecki's contributions here is that he has generally
sat back quietly and let the group set its own tone, based on its needs
of the moment. I want to hear the philosophical defense of this in more
detail.

Bruce

Jim
<-> to kusoma-discuss Dec 1 (4 days ago)
To put it in other words, Bruce:  money talks and bullsmurf walks.

Too bad Dr. Mirecki had to be forced to walk the plank with that
obviously carefully-scripted apology.  He really has nothing to
apologize for, other than of course being in disagreement with the
people holding the state's pursestrings.  There's no forgiveness for
that offense.

Jim

[kusoma-discuss] Today's latest
Bruce S. to kusoma-discuss Dec 2 (3 days ago)
Well, my letter appears in the paper today, almost as a kind of postscript to the
overheated, sensational reporting of this rush by the brave defenders of free thought to
distance themselves from a man who had the high audacity to actually admit his
prejudices. Of course they all know better than to admit these things, when they craft their
courses to serve personal views. Mirecki has commitrted the only real sin: failing to
adequate conceal your true feelings.

If I do say so myself, I think the publication of my letter could not have been better timed,
or more to the point.

I also note that John the Virtuous Mole has indeed expanded the range of his Christian
vengeance, to include trying to have SOMA deleted from campus. I warned you. I have
been watching people like him my whole life long and I know their playbook and every
lousy tactic they use. And I've read "Elmer Gantry."

It's sad that we have so many already-sheltered academics who run for cover the minute
some torch-wielding fanatic starts pointing at a skeptic yelling "Witch! Witch!"

The final irony is that Mirecki's "vile" ideas - "slap" and "big fat face" and "oo I'm evil" are
really so quaint and grade-schoolish. It's like the mild kid who tries to sound like one of
the tough kids - who is the only one who then gets caught and shamed, while the real
venom-spitters run laughing into the bushes.

Bruce S.

prezandrew    
<-> to kusoma-discuss Dec 2 (3 days ago)
Excellent letter Bruce, I'm so happy so see such great writings
appearing so often. Ironically, this event has become one of the
group's finest hours because we've risen up in defense of academic
freedom and speech freedom in such great numbers.

In the same paragraph that John demands SOMA be kicked off of campus
(not bloody likely), he also demands that Mirecki and other professors
(which others?) be fired (impossible legally) or transferred to
another department. He also demands that the religious studies
department be transferred to a religious authority. Again, this is an
impossible demand. What we're seeing here is the typical fundy making
impossible demands that he and everyone else knows will never come to
fruition. That way he always has something to fight for, and the more
outlandish the better. This comes with the mental disorder most
fundamentalists possess. In short, no one needs to worry about this
guy's statements, it's all smoke.

I'm going to write a little letter to Hemmingway myself, and I know a
few others in somewhat influential positions that will do the same
thing. Lets see that little weasel defend his statements.

-Andrew

[kusoma-discuss] Hearings?   Inbox
       
Keiv    
<> to kusoma-discuss Dec 2 (3 days ago)
If hearings are to be called on an issue, it should be to
investigate the dishonest religious agenda of the Kansas School
Board.

Also, I was thinking that even if Dr. Mirecki had never written a
single email, there still would have been an uproar over the class
and the fundies would have still tried to discredit him in some way
(i.e. by claiming that since he is the advisor to soma that he is
unfit to teach the class).  The email just made the battle end
sooner.

If these polititians are really concerned about hate speech, I
beseech them to examine the bigoted rhetoric of fundamentalist
churches.

To any rational person with a brain and a sense of humor it is
obvious Mirecki's email was written to the students in a humorous
affectionate tone and was not intended to offend.

This entire issue is so smurfing dumb it blows my mind.  I feel like
I'm surrounded by complete morons (not you guys, I mean Kansas in
general).  The positive comments on ljworld.com and the smart
letters to the editor and the smart people at the meeting last night
give me some hope.  Also I realise that the crazy quotes in the
newspapers are from the craziest of the crazies and don't represent
all Christians or all Kansans.

if you want more then that, you can join the listserv, but as a final note dr mirecki was tenporarily hospitalized with head iinjuries after being attacked by 2 men with a metal object.

Typically "Christian".  If you can't win with "reason" and "thinking," there's always good old "violence."