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There is positive unity and negative unity, for instance, contrast the simple unity of friendship vs that of solidarity.

unity is entropy's endgame; death.

Diversity is where life's at.

Last edited by Ribtorus (2006-04-06 7:28 am)

KingFred wrote:

StaticAge wrote:

There is positive unity and negative unity, for instance, contrast the simple unity of friendship vs that of solidarity.

wot? Which one of those is supposed to be "negative" unity and why?

Solidarity is a begrudging unity based on a self preservation at the expense of one's own values. You may even align with your "enemy" in order to preserve some artificial whole, as illustrated by Nazi Germany.

Thats not to say solidarity doesnt have pragmatic value or is not "good," just that it is a different sort of bond than a genuine friendship or loving relationship where out of affection and true attraction to qualities in the other, one is motivated to draw close to the other person.

Tallgeese wrote:

I'm not sure where you're getting this definition of solidarity.

Solidarity is based on a duty to a community or outside force. For instance, sometimes you will often see politicians act out of solidarity for their party, rather than act on their personal convictions, or a union man might think the strike is a bad idea, but out of solidarity participates in it, or a citizen might oppose a war, but out of solidarity "supports the troops." Friendship is a unity based on personal feelings with no outside pressure or framework directing the relationship.

Last edited by StaticAge (2006-04-06 8:21 am)

New American Webster "handy college dictionary": "union; community of interests"

American Heritage online: "A union of interests, purposes, or sympathies among members of a group; fellowship of responsibilities and interests:"

Tallgeese wrote:

And from that you draw…   …?

Well, like I also wrote:

Thats not to say solidarity doesnt have pragmatic value or is not "good," just that it is a different sort of bond than a genuine friendship or loving relationship where out of affection and true attraction to qualities in the other, one is motivated to draw close to the other person.

And:

Solidarity is based on a duty to a community or outside force. For instance, sometimes you will often see politicians act out of solidarity for their party, rather than act on their personal convictions, or a union man might think the strike is a bad idea, but out of solidarity participates in it, or a citizen might oppose a war, but out of solidarity "supports the troops."

Solidarity often has a revolutionary feel to it, but it isnt by any means loyal to any particular values, especially personal or universal ones, which is why I also spoke of Nazi Germany.

Survival, for instance.

Tallgeese wrote:

So if it's not loyalty to values, what is it loyalty to?

I didnt say "not loyal to values," I said "not loyal to particular values" ("particular"in the root sort of meaning of particles or to a single person). Its loyalty is to that of a massive or to the crowd, not the subjective. Like I illustrated, a union worker may personally vehemently disagree with the cause he goes on strike for, but out of obligation to the union, for sake of solidarity, goes on strike anyway. Of course there is a value present there, but its not one that the individual is one with because he feels it represents a transcendent truth, but because he is obliged by duty to the artificially constructed goals of the community.

Last edited by StaticAge (2006-04-06 9:29 pm)

I think rather that it's been unreasonably narrowed, that "value" only means "values which I find good."

"The values which I value?"