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ShnickyShnack wrote:

Duke Stratosphere wrote:

Metacell wrote:

Yeah I saw the beginning of O'Lielly's pathetic apologist tirade.  That guy really makes me want to vomit.  Excuse us, but who put those kids in that situation to begin with?

Plenty of kids are in the same situation and are not slaughtering innocent civilians, so I think the perpetrators of this heinous crime are going to need a better defense at their trial than, "It's George Bush's fault, 'cause he started the war."

So there's no connection between decisions taken at the top and the ways in which this war has been waged? No connection between the legal and ethical depravity coming out of the White House summed up by a cheerful ditty called "How May We Violate the Geneva Convention/Let Me Count The Ways" and how the war is fought on the ground?

Everyone on the ground knows what is right and wrong.

Steyr AUG wrote:

ShnickyShnack wrote:

Duke Stratosphere wrote:

Plenty of kids are in the same situation and are not slaughtering innocent civilians, so I think the perpetrators of this heinous crime are going to need a better defense at their trial than, "It's George Bush's fault, 'cause he started the war."

So there's no connection between decisions taken at the top and the ways in which this war has been waged? No connection between the legal and ethical depravity coming out of the White House summed up by a cheerful ditty called "How May We Violate the Geneva Convention/Let Me Count The Ways" and how the war is fought on the ground?

Everyone on the ground knows what is right and wrong.

I hear tell of a dead baby who would disagree with you.

Not every person is a shining example of the breed - people do evil things, sometimes without really pondering why. Soldiers are no less human than the rest of us.

What's really WRONG with this situation is that anybody, anybody is making excuses or rationalizing it.

O'Reilly is a dumbass.

dvpierce wrote:

Steyr AUG wrote:

ShnickyShnack wrote:

So there's no connection between decisions taken at the top and the ways in which this war has been waged? No connection between the legal and ethical depravity coming out of the White House summed up by a cheerful ditty called "How May We Violate the Geneva Convention/Let Me Count The Ways" and how the war is fought on the ground?

Everyone on the ground knows what is right and wrong.

I hear tell of a dead baby who would disagree with you.

People can choose to do the wrong thing, even when they know it is wrong.

iSeamas wrote:

Why do people in the media keep saying "alleged massacre"?


I can't think of any other way a group of peeople end up dead by gunfire other than a massacre.

Are they "allegedly" dead?


We all know that this type of thing happens in wars, which is precicely why wars of choice, and opportunity, and fortune ($8.8 billion missing and no anti-profiteering legislation) should never come to pass in this country. More "presumptive" than "pre-emptive" to be sure. Absolutely sickening.

Becuase it hasnt even been proven that the marines are the ones who killed them, so until then it is alleged. It really is sad when people who claim to "support the troops" dont even give them the benefit of the doubt.

Last edited by Steyr AUG (2006-06-03 7:51 am)

bratboy wrote:

Steyr AUG wrote:

Becuase it hasnt even been proven that the marines are the ones who killed them, so until then it is alleged. It really is sad when people who claim to "support the troops" dont even give them the benefit of the doubt.

...but aren't some of the allegations coming from marines themselves?

I havent seen that.

bratboy wrote:

Steyr AUG wrote:

Becuase it hasnt even been proven that the marines are the ones who killed them, so until then it is alleged. It really is sad when people who claim to "support the troops" dont even give them the benefit of the doubt.

...but aren't some of the allegations coming from marines themselves?

Yes, that is what prompted the investigations to begin with.

Sassy wrote:

bratboy wrote:

Steyr AUG wrote:

Becuase it hasnt even been proven that the marines are the ones who killed them, so until then it is alleged. It really is sad when people who claim to "support the troops" dont even give them the benefit of the doubt.

...but aren't some of the allegations coming from marines themselves?

Yes, that is what prompted the investigations to begin with.

Not that I see.

The investigation about Haditha started in March following a report in Time magazine. The magazine quoted eyewitnesses and local officials who said that 15 civilians were killed when Marines went on a rampage.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor … Id=5418814

Now perhaps you would like to provide a link to your assertion?

Last edited by Steyr AUG (2006-06-03 1:21 pm)

Steyr AUG wrote:

Becuase it hasnt even been proven that the marines are the ones who killed them, so until then it is alleged. It really is sad when people who claim to "support the troops" dont even give them the benefit of the doubt.

It doesn't matter who killed them. They are dead, they were shot, it's a massacre, not an "alleged" massacre. The media does this smurf all the time, and it drives me crazy.

Sassy wrote:

Steyr AUG wrote:

Sassy wrote:

Yes, that is what prompted the investigations to begin with.

Not that I see.

The investigation about Haditha started in March following a report in Time magazine. The magazine quoted eyewitnesses and local officials who said that 15 civilians were killed when Marines went on a rampage.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor … Id=5418814

Now perhaps you would like to provide a link to your assertion?

The full story is here The shame of Kilo Company

A military source in Iraq told TIME that investigators have obtained two sets of photos from Haditha. The first is after-action photos taken by the military as part of the routine procedure that follows any such event. Submitted in the official report on the fighting, the photos do not show any bodies. Investigators have also discovered a second, more damning set of photos, taken by Marines of the Kilo Company immediately after the shootings. The source says it isn't clear if these photos were held back from the after-action report or were personal snapshots taken by the Marines. The source says a Marine e-mailed at least one photo to a friend in the U.S.

Almost as damaging as the alleged massacre may be evidence that the unit's members and their superiors conspired to cover it up. "There's no doubt that the Marines allegedly involved in doing this--they lied about it," says Kline. "They certainly tried to cover it up." Three Marine officers, including the company commander and battalion commander, have been relieved of duty in part for actions related to the deaths in Haditha. A lawmaker who has been briefed on the matter says the investigations may implicate other senior officers.

The underline is mine.

OK, but thats not an allegation from the marines themselves.

jondaris wrote:

ShnickyShnack wrote:

jondaris wrote:

It doesn't matter who killed them. They are dead, they were shot, it's a massacre, not an "alleged" massacre. The media does this smurf all the time, and it drives me crazy.

"The media" tends not to like getting sued into the stone age.

To wit ...

Oh good grief. If you find that many people dead from gunshot wounds, it's a massacre. You can say that Marines allegedly killed them, but you can't say it's an alleged massacre. It doesn't make any sense. The only way it's not a massacre is if autopsies show that they died of natural causes.

Or that they werent indescrimantly killed.

jondaris wrote:

Oh good grief. If you find that many people dead from gunshot wounds, it's a massacre. You can say that Marines allegedly killed them, but you can't say it's an alleged massacre. It doesn't make any sense. The only way it's not a massacre is if autopsies show that they died of natural causes.

I agree.
It should be called a massacre - that's what happened.

It is the involvent of the Marines that is alleged, and God I hope it's not true.

Steyr AUG wrote:

Sassy wrote:

bratboy wrote:

...but aren't some of the allegations coming from marines themselves?

Yes, that is what prompted the investigations to begin with.

Not that I see.

The investigation about Haditha started in March following a report in Time magazine. The magazine quoted eyewitnesses and local officials who said that 15 civilians were killed when Marines went on a rampage.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor … Id=5418814

Now perhaps you would like to provide a link to your assertion?

Faux news and worldnutdaily don't have stories like that on their sites.