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#1 2007-02-02 10:39 am
- CG5Addict
- Member
- From: middle of nowhere
- Registered: 2005-08-29
- Posts: 583
Gates lies about OSX & Vista
Steven Levy: You also talk about improved security in Vista.
Bill Gates: Yes, although security is a [complicated concept]. You’re [referring to] the fact that there have been some security updates already for Windows Vista. This is exactly the way it should work. When somebody comes to us [after discovering a vulnerability] we’ve got [a fix] before there is any exploit. So it’s totally according to plan, and that’s why we have the whole Windows Update thing. We made it way harder for guys to do exploits. The number [of violations] will be way less because we’ve done some dramatic things [to improve security] in the code base. Apple hasn’t done any of those things.
Levy: In many of the Vista reviews, even the positive ones, people note that some Vista features are already in the Mac operating system.
Gates: You can go through and look at who showed any of these things first, if you care about the facts. If you just want to say, "Steve Jobs invented the world, and then the rest of us came along," that's fine. If you’re interested, [Vista development chief] Jim Allchin will be glad to educate you feature by feature what the truth is. I mean, it’s fascinating, maybe we shouldn't have showed so publicly the stuff we were doing, because we knew how long the new security base was going to take us to get done. Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine. So, yes, it took us longer, and they had what we were doing, user interface-wise. Let’s be realistic, who came up with [the] file, edit, view, help [menu bar]? Do you want to go back to the original Mac and think about where those interface concepts came from?
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#2 2007-02-02 10:47 am
- elpato84
- is Heavy Weapons Guy
- From: red team
- Registered: 2002-05-25
- Posts: 3331
Re: Gates lies about OSX & Vista
I like how every time someone brings up the GUI, he tries to make us remember Xerox's little foray into PCs.
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#3 2007-02-02 10:49 am
- mahakali
- anti-razor
- From: easter egg
- Registered: 2002-11-06
- Posts: 5611
Re: Gates lies about OSX & Vista
I thought it was just the mouse concept that apple copied from xerox.
1. Instill fear.
2. ???????? (use your imagination)
3. Profit!
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#4 2007-02-02 11:03 am
- macnuke
- just a plano guy
- Moderator
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- Registered: 2004-05-16
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Re: Gates lies about OSX & Vista
mahakali wrote:
I thought it was just the mouse concept that apple copied from xerox.
nope
pretty much the whole GUI concept was Xerox back then
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#6 2007-02-02 11:34 am
- Shadowless
- Cpl, USMC
- From: Jacksonville, NC
- Registered: 2005-10-10
- Posts: 3061
Re: Gates lies about OSX & Vista
CG5Addict wrote:
...
Gates: ...Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine. ...
I think someone should really take him up on that offer.
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#7 2007-02-02 11:36 am
- HackerJax
- Previous Poster
- From: *unknown*
- Registered: 2002-07-13
- Posts: 4871
Re: Gates lies about OSX & Vista
Shadowless wrote:
CG5Addict wrote:
...
Gates: ...Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine. ...I think someone should really take him up on that offer.
Oh not to worry, I'm sure people are planning on doing that regardless of his 'challenge'. I'm sure we'll see more vista exploits in a month then we'll see for OS X in an entire year.
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#8 2007-02-02 12:07 pm
- NAG
- A witch!
- Royal Wombat
- From: /usr/local/apps/nag
- Registered: 2000-09-22
- Posts: 30229
Re: Gates lies about OSX & Vista
Wow, even Gates has been fooled by the same proof of concept being released as a new "critical exploit for OS X" every month. By fooled I mean shamelessly using public misconception.
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#9 2007-02-02 12:17 pm
- Shadowless
- Cpl, USMC
- From: Jacksonville, NC
- Registered: 2005-10-10
- Posts: 3061
Re: Gates lies about OSX & Vista
NAG wrote:
Wow, even Gates has been fooled by the same proof of concept being released as a new "critical exploit for OS X" every month. By fooled I mean shamelessly using public misconception.
How is that thing going anyway?
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#10 2007-02-02 12:28 pm
Re: Gates lies about OSX & Vista
when you've dug a hole as deep as microsoft has, the only way out is to start making up crap. obviously bill has been paying attention to the Bush Administration's habit of repeating things that are contrary to reality. if you repeat a lie enough ...
i just can't believe that the reporter didn't have enough sack to call him out and challenge this ridiculous statement. what happened to journalism?
b
"The Fates lead he who will; he who won't, they drag." - Seneca
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#11 2007-02-02 12:31 pm
- NAG
- A witch!
- Royal Wombat
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- Posts: 30229
Re: Gates lies about OSX & Vista
Shadowless wrote:
NAG wrote:
Wow, even Gates has been fooled by the same proof of concept being released as a new "critical exploit for OS X" every month. By fooled I mean shamelessly using public misconception.
How is that thing going anyway?
Can you be a tad more specific? There are two sentences there.
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#12 2007-02-02 12:51 pm
- Shadowless
- Cpl, USMC
- From: Jacksonville, NC
- Registered: 2005-10-10
- Posts: 3061
Re: Gates lies about OSX & Vista
NAG wrote:
Shadowless wrote:
NAG wrote:
Wow, even Gates has been fooled by the same proof of concept being released as a new "critical exploit for OS X" every month. By fooled I mean shamelessly using public misconception.
How is that thing going anyway?
Can you be a tad more specific? There are two sentences there.
Heh, true. I meant the "exploit of OS X a day" thing.
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#13 2007-02-02 12:58 pm
- HackerJax
- Previous Poster
- From: *unknown*
- Registered: 2002-07-13
- Posts: 4871
Re: Gates lies about OSX & Vista
Shadowless wrote:
NAG wrote:
Shadowless wrote:
How is that thing going anyway?Can you be a tad more specific? There are two sentences there.
Heh, true. I meant the "exploit of OS X a day" thing.
You mean the 'month of apple bugs' that just ended?
Here is what was found and disclosed:
http://projects.info-pull.com/moab/
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#14 2007-02-02 1:00 pm
- rufio
- Let the funeral start, hear the casket close...
- From: texas/ohio
- Registered: 2003-10-26
- Posts: 2261
Re: Gates lies about OSX & Vista
I like how the reporter brings up new features into the equation and Gates makes one small question dodge and starts talking about security features which have little overlap. New features that the Mac already has? The reporter was not talking about how Mac OS X has widespread security across all users and windows does not. Ugh
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#15 2007-02-02 1:04 pm
- Freakout Jackson
- Meme-free
- From: ::moderated like a mo-fo::
- Registered: 2001-08-21
- Posts: 6583
Re: Gates lies about OSX & Vista
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#16 2007-02-02 1:07 pm
- NAG
- A witch!
- Royal Wombat
- From: /usr/local/apps/nag
- Registered: 2000-09-22
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Re: Gates lies about OSX & Vista
HackerJax wrote:
Shadowless wrote:
NAG wrote:
Can you be a tad more specific? There are two sentences there.Heh, true. I meant the "exploit of OS X a day" thing.
You mean the 'month of apple bugs' that just ended?
Here is what was found and disclosed:
http://projects.info-pull.com/moab/
Yeah, from what I saw of that 'event' was a bunch of bugs for software that runs on OS X. Not exactly 'Apple bugs' in my opinion.
I'm still not sold on the premise behind this event. It really looks a lot more like shameless self-promotion than actually trying to help Apple fix some problems.
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#17 2007-02-02 1:10 pm
- Mr. T
- Best of both worlds
- From: omnipresent
- Registered: 2002-04-02
- Posts: 4559
Re: Gates lies about OSX & Vista
Alien wrote:
The GUI "concept" is older than the Xerox PARC forays. And let's not even begin to discuss menu bars, dialogs, drop-down menus, drag-and-drop, …
,xtG
.tsooJ
Yes, many of the underlying concepts of the GUI did indeed predate PARC.
However, it's a popular misconception that Apple "stole" the technology from PARC (perpetuated in part by Pirates of Silicon Valley), when in fact, Apple paid Xerox for the pre-arranged visit to PARC, with the understanding that Apple would pick the brains of PARC researchers. Prior to this, however, PARC did unofficially open its doors to visitors, so it was probably assumed by many that Apple "stole technology" on one such visit, and that's probably how the rumor got started.
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#18 2007-02-02 1:11 pm
Re: Gates lies about OSX & Vista
Apple did at least give remuneration for the ideas borrowed from Xerox PARC.
So far, Vista seems more cosmetic than anything. Most of the really needed changes were tossed overboard to make the ship date. An evolutionary rather than revolutionary release. The next version should offer more substance.
I wonder what Apple has in the works beyond OS X?
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#19 2007-02-02 1:13 pm
- Mr. T
- Best of both worlds
- From: omnipresent
- Registered: 2002-04-02
- Posts: 4559
Re: Gates lies about OSX & Vista
NAG wrote:
Wow, even Gates has been fooled by the same proof of concept being released as a new "critical exploit for OS X" every month. By fooled I mean shamelessly using public misconception.
Quite true...
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#20 2007-02-02 1:25 pm
- Czachorski
- Member
- Registered: 2002-12-20
- Posts: 5601
Re: Gates lies about OSX & Vista
CG5Addict wrote:
Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally.
To see Bill Gates utter these words against a rival OS as criticism is totally beyond ironic and hypocritical. And Jobs has a reality distortion field? How aobut a reality delusional field, Bill!
Last edited by Czachorski (2007-02-02 1:26 pm)
Tracking the Tech
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#21 2007-02-02 1:34 pm
- NAG
- A witch!
- Royal Wombat
- From: /usr/local/apps/nag
- Registered: 2000-09-22
- Posts: 30229
Re: Gates lies about OSX & Vista
Take out the reality part and you're more correct.
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#22 2007-02-02 1:52 pm
- user
- Your plastic pal who's fun to be with
- From: I'm not getting you down, am I
- Registered: 2001-10-15
- Posts: 16485
Re: Gates lies about OSX & Vista
I just came to start a thread about this.
Those were some really amazing statements. Bill is usually careful to not say anything so....untruthful. It's bad business. What's really bizarre is the implication that Microsoft came up the the basic menubar items. I suppose he is talking about the old "box-cursor" semi-GUI interfaces that some DOS programs had, but I wonder if any of those actually predate the introduction of the Mac OS.
Aw, he's no fun, he fell right over.
Unless you become as little children, there's no way you will believe this crap.
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#23 2007-02-02 1:53 pm
Re: Gates lies about OSX & Vista
what's sad is that it sounds like 'sour grapes' ... and considering how much money that guy's made ... i don't know what he has to be sour about. except the fact that his company is profoundly bad at doing their core business
"The Fates lead he who will; he who won't, they drag." - Seneca
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#24 2007-02-02 2:01 pm
- HackerJax
- Previous Poster
- From: *unknown*
- Registered: 2002-07-13
- Posts: 4871
Re: Gates lies about OSX & Vista
NAG wrote:
HackerJax wrote:
Shadowless wrote:
Heh, true. I meant the "exploit of OS X a day" thing.You mean the 'month of apple bugs' that just ended?
Here is what was found and disclosed:
http://projects.info-pull.com/moab/Yeah, from what I saw of that 'event' was a bunch of bugs for software that runs on OS X. Not exactly 'Apple bugs' in my opinion.
I'm still not sold on the premise behind this event. It really looks a lot more like shameless self-promotion than actually trying to help Apple fix some problems.
Only about 5 of the vulnerabilities disclosed were non-apple software. The majority of it was apple software.
I don't care if these guys are promoting themselves or whoever, the info is in the open now and I don't think how they went about it is any more shameless than the people who grandstand claiming there are no security issues at all.
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#25 2007-02-02 2:32 pm
- D'Eyncourt
- OMGDICTATOR
- Registered: 2001-12-27
- Posts: 9004
- Website
Re: Gates lies about OSX & Vista
In the meantime: here is a list of Windows Vista hotfixes not (yet) accessible through Windows Update.
BOYCOTT SONY
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