Forums | MacLife

Bat · 2007-02-14 6:43 am

If I kept this where it was, 90% wouldn't see it and I'm not gonna be scooped on this one, whatever the hour.

macmenace wrote:
Bat wrote:
Edit: Sorry, missed you, macmenace.

macmenace wrote:
Does anyone think we will see these new next generation GPUs for the Mac at next weeks Macworld? (a.k.a A R600 or 8800 or similar card.)
The 8800 is just out, the R600 is a ways off. Apple in front of the grfx curve... not since Jan. '01 & the GF3. So... I doubt it. Existing cards are plenty fast and can use every OpenGL trick Apple supports.

So... no. Sorry.
Awe, one can still dream. Thanks.

http://www.maclife.com/forums/post/1333473#p1333473

Well, it looks like your dreams may be answered. Not at MacWorld, of course, but read on.

AMD's R600 mysteries revealed
Welcome Overdrive, vapour chamber cooler and 12 inchers

By Theo Valich: Wednesday 14 February 2007, 10:35

ATI'S coming R600 launch is causing fevered speculation and engendering widespread confusion.

Pictures of R600XTX OEM/SI version made the web rounds last weekend, and many readers got asked us what's going on with AMD.

Firstly, the PCB design of these products pictured are identical to the final form factor, and around nine inches long. And there will be a special cooler, designed as a one-off.

We can now reveal to you that the board you have been seeing around the web is actually a specific design which has only one customer right now. The name of that customer is Apple and it will also be available in Crossfire mode.

While we have zero doubts that Dell XPS/Dellienware and some other parties will pick it up as well, right now, the nice red cooler design is just Apple's and Apple's alone.

Personally, I have no doubt that Voodoo PC will ship the R600 with its water-cooling block. The company decided to go with vapour chamber technology, or a 2D version of the traditional heatpipe concept we have all come to know and endure.

Vapour Chamber technology is pretty well known in the world of CPU cooling, thanks to the Danish company named Asetek, and its "VapoChill" systems which propelled CPUs beyond the limits of water-cooling.

Asetek also made a conventional VapoChill Micro cooler, and you can perhaps visualise the R600's cooler as the VapoChill Micro for the GPU. We don't know yet which firm will produce this cooler for AMD/ATI, but we suspect only one or two players are in the frame. Now, the power connector story is a pretty interesting one. At present, there is actually only one design for both OEM/SI and retail/AIBs, and that one is 8-pin/6-pin. You can use 6+6-pin configuration, but if you do not plug 8-pin/6-pin, the ATI Catalyst driver suite will forbid you to enter the "Overdrive Zone".

[Obviously some of this will not apply to Macs, but is useful background- Bat].

...

These estimates are for the A13 revision. As we wrote quite some time ago, AMD/ATI decided to re-spin the chip to solve some problems it had with the product. It turns out that those problems involved engineers trying to get as high a clock as possible and to try to lower the power consumption, which is pretty steep right now - but still within do-able limits.

The BIOS for the board is now a "smart" one - it will detect whether the GPU is leaking current and will throttle power to prevent thermal or electrical "episodes".

So, the R600XTX has a special OEM/SI design mostly for Apple, the retail versions won't come with water cooling, but rather advanced vapour chamber technology, and the board has 8/6-pin config but can be used with two 6-pin ones - in which case you'll lose the Overdrive feature and stay inside a 225W power envelope, just like Nvidia Geforce 8800GTS . We will bring you more details about the connectivity of R600 boards later in the day. µ

So macmenace, NC37, DocB and more likely have much to rejoice about. Much more in article. smile

DoctorB · 2007-02-14 4:50 pm

eek Mmmm... I found this

The name of that customer is Apple and it will also be available in Crossfire mode.

specially interesting suggesting some new MBs to make their appearance in new Mac Pros. Can you imagine a quad-core or for that matter xn-core with two of these beasties in OSX or BootCamped into Windows. We're talking gigawatt power supply or darn close. I can see the power company execs doing high fives all around the board room conference table. I can see my bank happily offering a second mortgage. I can see me living in a motel when my wife finds out what I want to buy. wink

ConnertheCat · 2007-02-14 5:15 pm

I haven't really looked into it, but could you use ANY graphics card in a MP when it's booted into BootCamp? Obviously, it wouldn't function while in OS X…

macmenace · 2007-02-14 7:08 pm

Whoa, I wasn't expecting that. Thank you for the news Bat.

Steyr AUG · 2007-02-14 7:24 pm

Darn, I thought Duke Nukem Forever got released.

Aqua OS X · 2007-02-14 7:58 pm

What? No Optimus keyboard?

elpato84 · 2007-02-14 8:56 pm

Gabe Newell didn't port Steam?

Bat · 2007-02-14 9:45 pm

DoctorB wrote:
Mmmm... I found this

The name of that customer is Apple and it will also be available in Crossfire mode.

...specially interesting suggesting some new MBs to make their appearance in new Mac Pros. Can you imagine a quad-core or for that matter xn-core with two of these beasties in OSX or BootCamped into Windows. We're talking gigawatt power supply or darn close. I can see the power company execs doing high fives all around the board room conference table. I can see my bank happily offering a second mortgage. I can see me living in a motel when my wife finds out what I want to buy.

Welll, maybe, maybe only partially. Looks like they're doing a dual-chip board- but that wouldn't match the picture. Maybe issues aren't fully sorted yet. Time will tell.

2 chips anywhichwho with a 240 watt cap each could mean a 1,000w PSU, yeah.

The last two sentences might be too true, if they go the 'Pro card' route, with the 2-4GB VRAM etc. Pro cards like Quads & FireGLs need special app-certified drivers, support etc. and cost way more than gaming-type cards. At least Steve won't be using this now as a "just one more thing" at MWNY, with the story broken. He's fer sure not a happy camper and prolly on a witch hunt to find who leaked this. wink

Details on the rest of the lineup. The high-end single-chipper is going into new territory...

THE RADEON X2800XTX will work at 750MHz core clock and the GDDR 4 memory is clocked at 2200MHz. This is how the R600XTX will be known from now on. As always, these clocks are close to final but ATI can still change them till the launch date sometime in March.

The top card has 1024MB of 512-bit GDDR 4 memory working at 2200MHz. This card also has 128 Shaders just as many as Nvidia's G80 chip. It is made on a 80 nanometre marchitecture and it will sell for $600.

The 2-chip card[s] a la GX2 have lower specs, but will also go for $600. Sweet. smile

ConnertheCat wrote:
I haven't really looked into it, but could you use ANY graphics card in a MP when it's booted into BootCamp? Obviously, it wouldn't function while in OS X…

It's been awhile since I looked that issue over, but IIRC EFI vs. BIOS issues might get in the way. NC37 and the flashing crowd might remember more about that, and I'm sure it's being debated at IMG. I'll likely just wait it out, see what happens.

Steyr AUG wrote:
Darn, I thought Duke Nukem Forever got released.

Aqua OS X wrote:
What? No Optimus keyboard?

elpato84 wrote:
Gabe Newell didn't port Steam?

Oh, why must you ask the impossible of me? whaa

NightCougar_37 · 2007-02-15 5:05 am

Well if we get some decent GPUs for once then that would be great. I could see this as a new high end for the Pros but if the lower Macs remain the same, thats just still a crippled line. Sacrifice power longevity if needed but the Pro laptops should have a Pro lvl GPU in it, not a mediocre one.

Bat · 2007-02-15 6:34 am

NightCougar_37 wrote:
Sacrifice power longevity if needed but the Pro laptops should have a Pro lvl GPU in it, not a mediocre one.

I have no info on what's coming in the notebook line, but battery life, not gaming performance, is more important to most users there, who do not use them as alternative primary gaming machines.

Apple hasn't room in its product line for specialty gaming machines. It's a step up that the towers can be this good at it at all, given Apple's traditional indifference to gaming.

If you want top-line CPU & grfx perf, 5.1 sound and all to play UT3, H2V, GoW PC etc. at 1920x1200 or better, you still need a desktop if it's brand Apple. Otherwise go PC.

And these cards aren't decent- they're bleeding-edge, not even out yet.

These ain't your old Rage 128s. You could play UT2004 butter-smooth at 2560x1600 on them without breaking a sweat, FSAA, AF and the rest maxed out... your jaw would likely fall off. (And of course UT '99, Deus Ex, Unreal, on and on).

I expect these to debut with OSX Leopard & Lions and Bears OhMy, where Bootcamp will officially support Vista. You get your games, maybe Apple improves its OGL for gaming, maybe the Mac games market improves... or they don't. Either way you're covered.

Bat · 2007-02-15 11:29 pm

One more thing™ about high end chips in notebooks... not only do they eat power like it's going out of style, they produce heat to match. You saw the heatsink on the for-Apple card; even if it weren't the size of the entire MBP, would you want something with a 12.4" videocard using up to 240w sitting on your lap? That's not a good sort of lapdance to me- and I like gaming.

OTOH, if it's ATi/AMD's turn to supply Apple's video, the medium and lower-end keep getting better, too:

Radeon X2600XT and X2300 details elaborated
RV610 and RV630 heading for May

By Fuad Abazovic: Thursday 15 February 2007, 13:28

WE ALREADY told you that RV610 and RV630 chips are 65 nanometre. Unfortunately not all the details from this article and table are correct.

The RV630 is going to be known as the Radeon X2600XT and PRO. Radeon X2600XT is going to end up clocked at 650MHz core and 1600MHz GDDR3 memory with 256MB memory and 64 Shaders. To our surprise the card only supports a 128-bit memory interface. It should cost around $200. This will be ATI's first 65 nanometre chip.

AMD's next-gen DX10 chips are going to 65nm- less heat, lower power, still good performance. I don't think the MBPs will be hurting too badly.

user · 2007-02-16 2:18 pm

I was looking for the sequel to ONI.

elpato84 · 2007-02-16 3:15 pm

user wrote:
I was looking for the sequel to ONI.

With cross-platform multiplayer? big_smile

Booksley · 2007-02-16 5:40 pm

elpato84 wrote:
user wrote:
I was looking for the sequel to ONI.
With cross-platform multiplayer?

One can always dream... :sigh:

Bat · 2007-02-17 9:15 am

Booksley wrote:
elpato84 wrote:
user wrote:
I was looking for the sequel to ONI.
With cross-platform multiplayer?
One can always dream... :sigh:

"To Dr3am the Impossible Dr3am..."

So the new Wideload game is being published by chaps who used to be associated with Take 2, who were once associated with a certain Other Company...

...Take 2 owned 19.9% of the company; when Microsoft bought Bungie, Take 2 got (among other things) the rights to Oni and Myth in exchange for their chunk of Bungie.

-Matt

...and Wideload has other projects in dev beyond Hail to the Chimp.

So, fellow conspiracy lovers, weave me a theory...

====
So, on the videocard front:

Radeon X2800XTX R600 watercooling is an optional extra
Water palaver

By Fuad Abazovic: Friday 16 February 2007, 18:50

ATI'S AIBS (Add in Board partners) won't have the Watercooler Uber edition R600 we talked about forced upon them.

It'll be an optional extra for their range. If the AIB wants it, it can go for it.

It'll need a cooler and Aavid is avidly hawking one in Asia, with Asetek preparing a riposte. We cannot yet be certain if an R600 with either cooler is going to see the face of the earth.

Some of AMDATI's top partners might go for some packaged water and Sapphire is traditionally interested in this liquid cooling business.

It will be a boon for overclockers. In this tiny market, 750MHz clock of R600 won't be enough.

Happy Chinese New Year to all our readers. µ

Bat · 2007-02-19 3:35 pm

On the way.

R600XTX GDDR4 scheduled for end of March
Retail to see boards during last week of Q1

By Fuad Abazovic: Monday 19 February 2007, 16:27

THE PRODUCTION of R600XTX cards, Radeon X2800XTX or X2900XTX, whatever ATI decides to call them, is set to begin in the first week of March. One of the codenames for this card is Dragonshead 2 and it is a 9.5-inch card with the new vapour chamber cooler.

The board went throughout many revisions and the last one - so far - was the power and mechanical advisory in early February. The A13 board samples are scheduled for the last week of February while the Rev90 release of the board is scheduled for the fourth week of February.

R600XTX card production is set to start in first week of March. Add in Board partners (AIBs) will get the cards between second and third week of March.

The volume customer shipments are expected by the middle of third week in March. And at last target on shelf date is the 28th of March 2007 - that's when the NDAs expire.

It seems the original 12-inch cards are OEM only and have slightly different schedule of delivery. {So Apple gets theirs when?.. -Bat}

So it looks like Hector was right all along. He said R600 will be shipped in Q1 - even if the last day of Q1 2007 counts, at least in a court of law. µ

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=37718

Bat · 2007-02-20 5:24 am

Sort of final.

AMD Releases Final "R600" Specs
Six weeks from now, the world will get the first retail Radeon X2900 XTX

Late yesterday DailyTech was briefed on the final details for the upcoming R600 retail specifications, just in time for everyone to go on vacation for Chinese New Year. AMD has briefed its board partners on the specifications that will appear on the marketing material for the card launches.

AMD's guidance claims R600 will feature 700 million transistors. By comparison, the Radeon X1900 series R580 GPU incorporated 384 million transistors into its design; the half-generation before that, R520, only featured 320 million.

As disclosed by DailyTech earlier this year, the GPU features a full 512-bit memory interface with support for GDDR3 and GDDR4. R580 was also similar in this regard as it supported GDDR3 and GDDR4.

On March 30, 2007, AMD will initially debut the R600 as the ATI Radeon X2900 XTX in two separate configurations: one for OEMs and another for retail. The OEM version is the full length 12" card that will appear in high-end systems.

ATI guidance claims the X2900 XTX retail card comes as a two-slot, 9.5" design with a vapor chamber cooler. Vapor chambers are already found on high-end CPU coolers, so it would be no surprise to see such cooling on a high-end GPU either. The OEM version of the card is a 12" layout and features a quiet fan cooler.

1GB of GDDR4 memory is the reference configuration for Radeon X2900 XTX. Memory on the reference X2900 XTX cards was supplied by Samsung.

Approximately one month later, the company will launch the GDDR3 version of the card. This card, dubbed the Radeon X2900 XT, features 512MB of GDDR3 and lower clock frequencies than the X2900 XTX. The X2900 XT is also one of the first Radeons to feature heatpipes on the reference design.

...

A much anticipated feature, native HDMI, will appear on all three versions of Radeon X2900.

One 6-pin and one 8-pin (2x4) VGA power connectors are featured on Radeon X2900, but both connectors are also backwards compatible with 6-pin power supply cables.

AMD claims the R600 target schedule will be a hard launch -- availability is expected to be immediate. Board partners will be able to demonstrate R600 at CeBIT 2007 (March 15 - 21), but the only available cards will be reference designs.

Why was there such discrepancy with the board layouts and designs up until now? An ATI insider, who wished to remain nameless, states "The original Quad-Stealth design is what we build the R600 on: GDDR4, full-length and dual-slot cooling. As the silicon further revised, [ATI] took up several alternative designs which eventually included GDDR3 and heatpipes into the specification. The release cards demonstrate the versatility of R600 in each of these unique setups."

Final clock frequencies will likely remain estimates until later this month.

That's the "not final" part. Now to sell some childr- er, save up.

http://www.dailytech.com/AMD+Releases+F … le6138.htm

Bat · 2007-02-21 10:31 am

...which will take longer than promised, DAAMIT.

R600 delayed again
Pushed over into Q2

By Fuad Abazovic: Wednesday 21 February 2007, 12:35

WE JUST had a call from DAAMIT and we learned that its R600 presentation and introduction is pushed to a later date. It won't happen before Cebit, nor any time this quarter.

It is pushed back for launch in Q2 and this comes officially from AMD. Hector won't be happy as he made the promise for a Q1 launch. µ

Argh... splutter...

Oh well, longer to save. And all there is of DX10 is two demos at NV. Whee.

Bat · 2007-03-01 3:48 am

Will they make us wait , or is it not far off? Will it be affordable? Can't take... all this... pressure... [/Tweek]

Multiple reports hit the net tonight reporting that at today's San Francisco launch of their new 690G chipset AMD decided it was also time to talk a little turkey publicly regarding their recently delayed R600 GPU. Taking advantage of press presence, AMD publicly demoed two R600s coupled to an AMD "Barcelona" CPU and working on a stream computing workload. AMD's Henri Richard took the blame for delaying the R600 launch, but assured everyone that "R600 is doing very well" --an obvious bid to quiet rumours of a hardware problem with the GPU being to blame for the launch being pushed back. Further, AMD reported that the launch would only be delayed "by a few weeks" rather than the months some observers have feared. At least one source is reporting directly that the delay is in order that "AMD can roll out a full suite of graphics chips covering multiple market segments for the latest Microsoft DirectX 10 applications programming interface."

On the specifications front, several tidbits were pointed at to give enthusiasts some tea leaves to stir. In the configuration demoed in San Francisco, each R600 is said to have used 200W, be comprised of 320 "multiply-accumulate units", and between the two units on display be capable of a total of one teraflop of math power. While it's not clear yet which bits are definite AMD marketing language and which are reporters trying to invent language to report with, it would appear to us likely that AMD will also be joining the scalar bandwagon, and that to reach 1 teraflop of compute power with 320 ALUs x 2, would most likely imply a clock of roughly 800MHz operating on MADD units. Going well back to early rumours and reporting of R600 last spring, and adding today's 320 ALUs, this would begin to look like a modified/improved version of Xenos at 4 arrays of 16, with the 5D ALUs improved to be scalar and fully MADD. However, AMD's generosity of information today did not extend quite so far as that, and some actual poking and prodding would be required to confirm this.

http://www.beyond3d.com/#news39176

Bat · 2007-03-17 9:56 am

They happen, they don't... sometimes they sort of happen the familiar way.

WHEN YOURS TRULY learned of a new respin of the chip in early January, we learned that this respin was caused by one fact, and one fact only.

The 80 nanometre chip was bleeding current like a slaughtered pig bleeds [..]

However, we did not know then that AMD did not order just a respin, but the company got an attack of bravery, didn't take the R520/R580 route, and scrapped the R600 altogether. Things change.

The 80nm R600 die - as it was leaked - will now come to life only in a very limited amount of chips, since AMD decided to solve its problems by pulling all resources to go 65 nano across the board, including this 720 million trannie heavy monster. This drastically reduces power consumption and lets AMD clock the R600 to 1GHz or even more. The mass production R600 will be made on a 65 nanometre process.

That means that even though AMD is more than six months behind in terms of the G80 vs. R600 battle, AMD actually now has a six month levy over the NV55, better known to people as ex-G81, currently known about as G90 - or the NV55 in the halls of Satan Clara.

We have talked with several high-ranking AMD executives and confirmed this rumour. So, from March 16th at 19:59 CET - the R600 which you will buy in stores in May will be 65nm, and will consume almost one third less power than the 80 nanometre one. µ

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=38292

Anyone else thinking Apple's 12.4" monsters get the limited number of 80nm chips, and the much smaller, yet higher-clocked retail boards seen get the thriftier, yet speedier 65nm chippies?

Break out the smelling salts for DocB... s'OK, Doc. It's still all you need and has the same features; you'll just see the great and powerful Oz behind his curtain next show. UT3 will still be yours.

NSX · 2007-03-27 3:39 pm

nice in the card department, n as for u, sorry but starcraft ghost did haha

Steyr AUG wrote:
Darn, I thought Duke Nukem Forever got released.

Forums | MacLife

#1 2007-02-14 6:43 am

Miracles can happen?

macmenace wrote:

Bat wrote:

macmenace wrote:

#2 2007-02-14 4:50 pm

Re: Miracles can happen?

#3 2007-02-14 5:15 pm

Re: Miracles can happen?

#4 2007-02-14 7:08 pm

Re: Miracles can happen?

#5 2007-02-14 7:24 pm

Re: Miracles can happen?

#6 2007-02-14 7:58 pm

Re: Miracles can happen?

#7 2007-02-14 8:56 pm

Re: Miracles can happen?

#8 2007-02-14 9:45 pm

Re: Miracles can happen?

DoctorB wrote:

ConnertheCat wrote:

Steyr AUG wrote:

Aqua OS X wrote:

elpato84 wrote:

#9 2007-02-15 5:05 am

Re: Miracles can happen?

#10 2007-02-15 6:34 am

Re: Miracles can happen?

NightCougar_37 wrote:

#11 2007-02-15 11:29 pm

Re: Miracles can happen?

#12 2007-02-16 2:18 pm

Re: Miracles can happen?

#13 2007-02-16 3:15 pm

Re: Miracles can happen?

user wrote:

#14 2007-02-16 5:40 pm

Re: Miracles can happen?

elpato84 wrote:

user wrote:

#15 2007-02-17 9:15 am

Re: Miracles can happen?

Booksley wrote:

elpato84 wrote:

user wrote:

#16 2007-02-19 3:35 pm

Re: Miracles can happen?

#17 2007-02-20 5:24 am

Re: Miracles can happen?

#18 2007-02-21 10:31 am

Re: Miracles can happen?

#19 2007-03-01 3:48 am

Re: Miracles can happen?

#20 2007-03-17 9:56 am

Re: Miracles can happen?

#21 2007-03-27 3:39 pm

Re: Miracles can happen?

Steyr AUG wrote:

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