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#1 2007-08-21 4:05 pm

NightCougar_37
Has been Larrabee vaccinated..have you?
From: The back of my Netherdrake
Registered: 2001-07-22
Posts: 8772

The G70 and your semi stock G4!

Well I finally got around to feeling good enough to run the flashing procedure for my 7800GS. On the plus side it was a success, but on the downside my Quicksilver is now showing even worse where all the performance holes are. For those curious the procedure is very simple. Just need a PC to do it. Its a basic flash n go with a 3&11 tape mod.

Unlike past flashes or tests I won't be doing a ton of extensive benches. Frankly I don't think they'd show much right now with the current setup. I will update with a WoW performance analysis later tho.

Right now heres Halo benches:

Rig: Quicksilver 2001 (733Mhz) / No L3 G4 867Mhz (upclocked from 733) / 512MB RAM / Radeon 9000 64MB (original card) / PNY nVidia 7800GS 256MB (stock speeds ROM) / X.4.9 / Halo 1.5.2

W/ R9000:

Total Time=248.26s
Average frame rate=18.93fps
Below  5fps= 6% (time)  0% (frames) (16.794s spent in 17 frames)
Below 10fps= 9% (time)  1% (frames)
Below 15fps= 31% (time)  16% (frames)
Below 20fps= 56% (time)  39% (frames)
Below 25fps= 81% (time)  67% (frames)
Below 30fps= 91% (time)  82% (frames)
Below 40fps= 97% (time)  93% (frames)
Below 50fps= 99% (time)  97% (frames)
Below 60fps= 99% (time)  97% (frames)
###Sound Options###
Hardware Acceleration= No
Sound Quality= Normal
Environmental Sound= No
Sound Variety= Medium
###Video Options###
Resolution= 1024 x 768
Refresh rate= 0 Hz
Framerate throttle= No Vsync
Specular= No
Shadows= No
Decals= Yes
Particles= Off
Texture Quality= High

W/ 7800GS (Vertex Shaders only):

Total Time=209.90s
Average frame rate=22.39fps
Below  5fps= 8% (time)  0% (frames) (17.976s spent in 17 frames)
Below 10fps= 9% (time)  0% (frames)
Below 15fps= 21% (time)  7% (frames)
Below 20fps= 38% (time)  21% (frames)
Below 25fps= 61% (time)  43% (frames)
Below 30fps= 79% (time)  65% (frames)
Below 40fps= 95% (time)  90% (frames)
Below 50fps= 98% (time)  96% (frames)
Below 60fps= 99% (time)  98% (frames)
###Sound Options###
Hardware Acceleration= No
Sound Quality= Normal
Environmental Sound= No
Sound Variety= Medium
###Video Options###
Resolution= 1024 x 768
Refresh rate= 0 Hz
Framerate throttle= No Vsync
Specular= No
Shadows= No
Decals= Yes
Particles= Off
Texture Quality= High

W/ 7800GS (Advanced Shaders):

Total Time=255.65s
Average frame rate=18.38fps
Below  5fps= 7% (time)  0% (frames) (19.966s spent in 21 frames)
Below 10fps= 11% (time)  2% (frames)
Below 15fps= 33% (time)  16% (frames)
Below 20fps= 59% (time)  41% (frames)
Below 25fps= 79% (time)  65% (frames)
Below 30fps= 93% (time)  85% (frames)
Below 40fps= 99% (time)  95% (frames)
Below 50fps= 99% (time)  97% (frames)
Below 60fps= 99% (time)  97% (frames)
###Sound Options###
Hardware Acceleration= No
Sound Quality= Normal
Environmental Sound= No
Sound Variety= Medium
###Video Options###
Resolution= 1024 x 768
Refresh rate= 0 Hz
Framerate throttle= No Vsync
Specular= No
Shadows= No
Decals= Yes
Particles= Off
Texture Quality= High

As you can see, performance is at a standstill and not much better than before. My Geforce 3 in my Cube is currently beating this rig out on Halo performance but then it also has a 1.8Ghz 7447 upgrade in it. Pending CPU upgrade as well as a max out of the RAM this sucker should see definite improvements.

For those interested in choosing this route also, just be ready to add those other upgrades to go with it. You will gain Core Image but this G70 needs more power to back it up. With RAM being limited to 512MB it is obviously choking.

*Edit* Just finished a little dabbling in WoW and UT2003 (haven't transfered over 2k4 yet from my Cube).

Analysis: Very promising. The difference between WoW with trimmed settings for the 9000 and maxed out for the 7800GS is not that great. Overall I pushed the rez up to 1680x1050 and saw a barely noticeable loss in FPS. Outland is unplayable but Azeroth is decent, much better than expected. Obviously needs more upgrades to make the Quicksilver a Raid Worthy machine.

For UT2k3 there was also some surprises. With just normal details some maps are sluggish but when pushed to max and also upped to 1680x1050 the FPS does not drop very heavily. The map Leviathan was actually very playable for a quick skirmish with FPS easily approaching 30.

I'll test some more games when I can transfer them over from my Cube but there is an obvious pattern with increasing the rez and the power of this G70. Really making me want to forget about getting a 360 and put the money into a CPU upgrade and RAM for this. Not even over 1Ghz and its getting playable frames at 1680 eek.

Last edited by NightCougar_37 (2007-08-22 1:09 am)


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#2 2007-08-22 7:46 pm

NightCougar_37
Has been Larrabee vaccinated..have you?
From: The back of my Netherdrake
Registered: 2001-07-22
Posts: 8772

Re: The G70 and your semi stock G4!

Well CPU wouldn't do 933 but I decided to play around with my old 600Mhz 7410 a lil. Omg Motorola made a good chip. Performance is beating out the 867 easily so far. Just did 2 max rez Halo benches and with the 867 it = 15.34fps but with the 600Mhz 7410 i'm getting about 17fps. Doesn't sound like much but considering all the other limitations, that is a nice improvement.

Nice testament to the power of that old 7410 and how poorly the first gen 2001 Quicksilvers were in performance. Guess i'll be leaving this 7410 in for awhile. Also noticing WoW performance up a good 5fps. Man I wish right now this chip was one of the 533 dualies. Would be nice to play around with a dual 600.


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#3 2007-08-22 9:27 pm

Jyri Erik
Member
From: Greenbelt, MD
Registered: 2001-04-21
Posts: 2395

Re: The G70 and your semi stock G4!

Have a quick question for you.  Does monitor sleep work for you?  I've got a 7800GS in my QS2002 and as long as it's hooked up DVI-D only, the monitor won't sleep.  If I hook up another monitor, then it sleeps fine.  My current "solution" was to hook up the LCD via both DVI-D and VGA ports, detect "both" monitors then set them to mirror & unhook the VGA cable.  I'd like to find a better solution.

Jyri

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#4 2007-08-23 10:53 am

NightCougar_37
Has been Larrabee vaccinated..have you?
From: The back of my Netherdrake
Registered: 2001-07-22
Posts: 8772

Re: The G70 and your semi stock G4!

Sleep seems to be working ok on my VGA. Gonna need more time to try the DVI since I gotta send my monitor into Viewsonic to repair the DVI port on it and enable it to switch between both DVI and VGA again. Sleep issues are probably the oldest known issue with many flashed boards but not all the flashed setups have them.


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#5 2007-08-23 7:20 pm

Jyri Erik
Member
From: Greenbelt, MD
Registered: 2001-04-21
Posts: 2395

Re: The G70 and your semi stock G4!

Yeah, I figured it's definitely due to being flashed.  What makes it weirder is that the person I got it from has one on his QS2002 and it sleeps fine, and when I originally got the card, I THINK it slept fine, but then stopped doing so.  In any case, it's something that's a real bear to figure out.

Jyri

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#6 2007-08-23 11:34 pm

NightCougar_37
Has been Larrabee vaccinated..have you?
From: The back of my Netherdrake
Registered: 2001-07-22
Posts: 8772

Re: The G70 and your semi stock G4!

Could be just some lil quirk in the OS regarding the GPU. Probably wouldn't know without a fresh install.


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#7 2007-09-04 12:42 am

Antonio
Now with more cowbell!
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: 2007-01-16
Posts: 520

Re: The G70 and your semi stock G4!

Too bad you can't get 933 out of that 733... I'm getting 1.07Ghz out of my 867 (also from a QS).


“The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents.”
--HP Lovecraft, The Call Of Cthulhu

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#8 2007-09-04 12:43 am

Antonio
Now with more cowbell!
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: 2007-01-16
Posts: 520

Re: The G70 and your semi stock G4!

Jyri Erik wrote:

Have a quick question for you.  Does monitor sleep work for you?  I've got a 7800GS in my QS2002 and as long as it's hooked up DVI-D only, the monitor won't sleep.  If I hook up another monitor, then it sleeps fine.  My current "solution" was to hook up the LCD via both DVI-D and VGA ports, detect "both" monitors then set them to mirror & unhook the VGA cable.  I'd like to find a better solution.

Jyri

That's one hell of a workaround big_smile


“The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents.”
--HP Lovecraft, The Call Of Cthulhu

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#9 2007-09-04 1:53 am

NightCougar_37
Has been Larrabee vaccinated..have you?
From: The back of my Netherdrake
Registered: 2001-07-22
Posts: 8772

Re: The G70 and your semi stock G4!

I might just get my hands on a 867 coming up. Watching some auctions of those chips and i'm pondering it since some nut got on a ran up a dual 1Ghz chip I had my eyes on. Poor guy had lost the last handful of prior auctions so I guess he got desperate and has now ran this one up. He was bidding up on multiples at once till this one. Lost em all at the last sec by someone like me just biding their time big_smile.

I've been scouting these for awhile since right now the 7448s and other dualies are still high in price. Was hoping to get a dual 800 or better but maybe i'll settle with a SP. Don't know if I want to swing over $150 for a OEM part when theres brand new SP chips for 2x the speed going for not much more in price.


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#10 2007-09-04 3:46 am

Antonio
Now with more cowbell!
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: 2007-01-16
Posts: 520

Re: The G70 and your semi stock G4!

It depends on what you're going to do with it.
For stuff like web development, where you're simultaneously editing code (usual of several varieties) and creating backround imagery, in addition to the usual communicating with clients and such, you definitely want the efficiency of a dual-processor rig, but for you, for gaming, a screaming balls-to-the-walls fast single is much better suited.

Last edited by Antonio (2007-09-04 3:47 am)


“The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents.”
--HP Lovecraft, The Call Of Cthulhu

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#11 2007-09-05 12:36 am

NightCougar_37
Has been Larrabee vaccinated..have you?
From: The back of my Netherdrake
Registered: 2001-07-22
Posts: 8772

Re: The G70 and your semi stock G4!

Yeah but i've done SP in my Cube. Haven't done MP yet and i've been itchin to. There are a few games that have added MP aware and I got a feeling somewhere down the line Blizz is gonna add some MP options for WoW. Probably just using the 2nd CPU for audio processing like in UT2k4 but i'd still like a lil speedup to make my tower more raid worthy.


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#12 2008-03-09 4:11 pm

mekonio
Member
Registered: 2008-03-09
Posts: 3

Re: The G70 and your semi stock G4!

NightCougar_37 wrote:

Well I finally got around to feeling good enough to run the flashing procedure for my 7800GS. On the plus side it was a success, but on the downside my Quicksilver is now showing even worse where all the performance holes are. For those curious the procedure is very simple. Just need a PC to do it. Its a basic flash n go with a 3&11 tape mod.

Hi "NightCougar_37"!

I have a PNY Verto GeForce 7800 GS AGP with 256 MB DDR3, I have flash it with a ROM with no temperature sensor (for future use with Leopard) that can be found in "themacelite.com" wiki, but I have some issues to boot my Mac OS 10.4.11 system, at the gray apple screen the image get pixeled and it also freeze the boot sequence, so, can you tell me wich ROM did you use for your PNY 7800 GS? Thanks for advance! lol

Last edited by mekonio (2008-03-09 4:15 pm)


Power Mac G4 "Digital Audio"   Single 533 Mhz, 768 MB RAM, 160 GB Hard Drive
M-Audio Revolution 7.1 PCI, PNY Verto NVIDIA GeForce 7800 GS AGP 256 MB
Mac OS 10.4.11

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#13 2008-03-09 4:28 pm

NightCougar_37
Has been Larrabee vaccinated..have you?
From: The back of my Netherdrake
Registered: 2001-07-22
Posts: 8772

Re: The G70 and your semi stock G4!

I just used the one they had up for this on Mac Elite. Is your PNY a G70 board? There are 2 different 7800GS models. 1 with a G70 (which works), the other uses a G71 (has issues). The Mac elite guys could tell you but ideally you have to check the sticker on the board itself. It should actually say on it what chip it is using.

I'm not familiar with this no temperature sensor rom that you used. At the time I did this, Leopard wasn't out so I used what they had found to get working. For problems with the roms, ask the Mac Elite guys, they are the ones who made them and are awesome folks when ppl need a hand.


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#14 2008-03-09 4:48 pm

mekonio
Member
Registered: 2008-03-09
Posts: 3

Re: The G70 and your semi stock G4!

Thanks for the answer, my PNY Verto GeForce 7800 GS AGP card has this features:

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m269/mekonio/PNY7800GSGPU-Z.jpg

This issue only happens the first time I boot the Power Mac, because it fix it after a reboot with the button of the front of the Power Mac, and it boot just fine, I can actually play 3d games, core image enable and also Quarz Extreme enable, it just happen when I boot the Power Mac after a Power off, I guess I will reflash the card with the others ROM release. Thanks, see you later


Power Mac G4 "Digital Audio"   Single 533 Mhz, 768 MB RAM, 160 GB Hard Drive
M-Audio Revolution 7.1 PCI, PNY Verto NVIDIA GeForce 7800 GS AGP 256 MB
Mac OS 10.4.11

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#15 2008-03-10 4:07 am

NightCougar_37
Has been Larrabee vaccinated..have you?
From: The back of my Netherdrake
Registered: 2001-07-22
Posts: 8772

Re: The G70 and your semi stock G4!

Hang on a sec. That screen there is showing it is a G71. That is probably your problem right there. Surprised it even works, I heard G71s couldn't be done at the time cause of changes in the G70-G71 core, maybe they fixed the ROMs better since I did mine. I'd get an account over on Mac Elite and take this to them. They'll probably be of more help to you now than I can.


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#16 2008-03-10 4:28 am

mekonio
Member
Registered: 2008-03-09
Posts: 3

Re: The G70 and your semi stock G4!

Thanks for the help "NightCougar_37" I think this PNY GeForce 7800 GS it's a real G70 because of the BIOS version, maybe the GPU-Z program has an error on the chip detection, but I will try asking for some help on themacelite forum. Thanks again


Power Mac G4 "Digital Audio"   Single 533 Mhz, 768 MB RAM, 160 GB Hard Drive
M-Audio Revolution 7.1 PCI, PNY Verto NVIDIA GeForce 7800 GS AGP 256 MB
Mac OS 10.4.11

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