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mo' ron wrote:

What is wrong with allowing states to ban late term abortions?

Thank you for asking.

What's wrong with it is that it means allowing morally bankrupt religious fanatics to use irrational, unscientific, emotional arguments and logical fallacies to interfere with the health care of American women.

I've personally encountered these addle-brained True Believers and engaged them in enough dialogue to know the vast majority of them simply do not know what they're talking about. To our society's eternal shame, we've permitted these folks, --most of whom have no medical training-- to determine the very language we use to describe medical procedures. Hence the highly loaded and disingenuous term, "partial birth abortion."

<WARNING: SAD AND DEPRESSING TRUE STORY AHEAD, WITH IMAGERY THAT WILL DISTURB YOU>

I will never forget an article I read quite some time ago, by a woman who learned very late in her pregnancy that her baby was no-longer alive. You would naturally assume that under the circumstances, her doctor would offer to end the pregnancy as quickly and humanely as possible, for the sake of the woman's physical and mental health.

You would certainly expect to have this happen if you or somebody you loved was in such a horrible situation, yes?

Well, guess again. The woman's hospital of choice, where she'd received all her pre-natal and OB-GYN care, specifically did not have anybody on staff who had ever  performed --or was qualified to perform-- the necessary procedure. Furthermore, there were no doctors or hospitals anywhere in her health insurer's provider network who could or would bring a safe and merciful closure to her tragedy.

Why, pray tell?

Because the procedure she required was one which had been demonized, politicized, and labeled by the know-nothing crusaders as "partial birth abortion."

It was truly heart-rending to read her first-hand account of what it was like, waiting in a strange hotel room, far-away from home, for word from a new hospital that a doctor had been located and would finally be performing the procedure. At that point, the removal of her baby's corpse had been needlessly and cruelly delayed for at least several days, if not a few weeks.

During this delay, she writes, it was impossible to avoid thinking about certain horrible realities, such as the fact that at a certain point, her baby's body would have been decomposing, its skin sloughing off its body, its face becoming disfigured by the pressure of the uterine wall against which it was pressed.

This is what the well-meaning, anti-woman, anti-human, anti-abortion crusaders have wrought, but I don't ultimately blame them. They're crazy and sick, and they don't know any better.

I blame those who damned well do know better, but seek to appease the pro-lifers by walking the centrist path of least controversy.

Make no mistake about it, I have blood relatives who are strident, Charismatic, Pentecostal Christians. I have a fundamentalist, pro-life ex-girlfriend who is now like a sister to me, and whose Christian mother, grandmother, aunt, and uncle I shall always regard as members of my family.

I love these people dearly, and have often been humbled by the realness and sincerity of their struggle to better know that which created all things.

None of these loving thoughts, however, will come as much comfort to woman and girls who have no access to safe, legal abortion services (or to many other types of reproductive health care procedures and technologies, for that matter).

These women and girls are the victims of modern American fundamentalism. Those who persecute women in the name of religion and "morality" should be called what they are:

They are the American Taliban.

Tallgeese wrote:

And what does the President have to do with your sob story?

Just like the hospital administrators, he would sell out the women and girls of this country in order to appease our Talibani-Televangelists*.

But didn't you mean to say, "What does that guy who WAS gonna be President have to do with it....?"

'Cause, like I said....

IT IS ON!

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p … E223AB1F16








*Though "Talibani-Televangelist" has a wonderful ring to it, I must admit most of the Holy Rollers on TV aren't interested in talking about abortion much. Those guys just wanna sell you however much religion is necessary to get you to open your wallet, and --like those cowardly hospital administrators and HMO officers-- they tend to shy away from anything controversial enough to hurt their bottom line.

The POTUS can veto legislation that would ban the procedure for example.

It really is sad that Obama is the best the left can hope for. He's not really on the left, he's center-right at best. But that's the US in general. I find it disturbing that UHC, which has been successful in most every other industrialized nation, is still a debate here. It's not just the comments on abortion, it's the continued funding of "faith-based" programs and the caving in on FISA. The right has just enough power to blunt any real progress in environmental issues, alternative energy, universal healthcare, civil rights - pretty much everything really. I'm probably going to vote Green this year. Other progressives who also live in safe Democratic states should consider doing the same - if nothing but to give support for an actual leftist party.

Either that, or I would like to see a McCain presidency. Likely it would be a single-term affair. It would also be interesting to see just how bad things need to get before people actually feel the need to do something about it.

robco wrote:

It would also be interesting to see just how bad things need to get before people actually feel the need to do something about it.

all experience hath shown, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable,

What have you done lately to right the evils around you? Or, like most people, are you more prone to suffer that which is sufferable?
Call your Congressman and Senators, especially the State level ones. Tell them how you feel. Propose legislation to them, even. Inform them that seat belts are stupid. Whatever. That is a much better and much more effective method than 'let's get it as bad as possible and mock those idiots!"
President =/= king. He is the most visible person in the government but that does not mean the rest toady around at his edict.

Oh, and by the way, have I mentioned the fact that...


IT


IS


ON


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k5pc6aKRUE



Talkin' 'bout that grassroots support, baby!!!!

robco wrote:

Jdude wrote:

all experience hath shown, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable,

What have you done lately to right the evils around you? Or, like most people, are you more prone to suffer that which is sufferable?
Call your Congressman and Senators, especially the State level ones. Tell them how you feel. Propose legislation to them, even. Inform them that seat belts are stupid. Whatever. That is a much better and much more effective method than 'let's get it as bad as possible and mock those idiots!"
President =/= king. He is the most visible person in the government but that does not mean the rest toady around at his edict.

Unfortunately my representatives are more often than not the ones pushing for progressive change - I do live in San Francisco after all. I'm speaking of the folks who continually vote for people like Jesse Helms or Trent Lott.

I am sorry your representatives do not share your viewpoints. That can be rough. My previous comments still stand. Have you tried to contact of them?

This is also why I do feel the US should be more libertarian at the federal level and more should be done at the state level. This way places like CA and NY can be crazy left and places like MS and AL can be crazy conservative. This way the religious whackjobs can block these things in their local areas all they want and leave the rest of us alone.

My feelings exactly. That is the design set out for us in the Constitution and I am very displeased that we have drifted from it.

But the fact that McCain is running so closely is telling.

The same can be said about Obama, with equally valid complaints.

Last edited by Jdude (2008-07-12 5:18 pm)

robco wrote:

But the fact that McCain is running so closely is telling. It means that a lot of Americans haven't had enough. Many of our fellow citizens want the war to continue, more people dying. They apparently want the gubment to have more power to go after "terrorists", even if it means shredding the Constitution. And who needs healthcare? So if it takes more people losing healthcare, energy prices going up with no research into alternatives, more people dying in Iraq, more money wasted on privatization with no accountability or oversight, etc. to get people to realize that the neocon agenda is leading us to ruin - then so be it.

Honestly, how much worse does it need to get? Is abortion really that important? Do people honestly think McCain gives a smurf or will do anything about it? Does the fact that my partner and I might actually get married really that big of a concern, dwarfing everything else? Do people really believe the whole Democrat=Big Gubment lie anymore?

Fear of taxes.  Thats all it is.  Me for the moment, thats all the thinking is.

I'd almost take a link from Wikipedia more seriously than a site with as strong a conservative bias at that one. Same could be said over a site with a strong liberal bias as well but one wasn't posted in this topic yet AFAIK.

That I'll accept. They're smurfs to everyone.

Lnkplsthx.

Last edited by ScifiterX (2008-07-12 11:23 pm)

Thanks While I don't trust the IRS not to screw me or anyone else over at a moment's notice. I trust them to be brutally honest about it.

Bren wrote:

ScifiterX wrote:

Thanks While I don't trust the IRS not to screw me or anyone else over at a moment's notice. I trust them to be brutally honest about it.

No, they will lie to you and claim that there's actually a law somewhere which requires you to pay federal income taxes. Call them on this lie by refusing to pay. They will put you on trial, have you mired in litigation, take everything you own, and put you in debtor's prison, but they will not at any point show you that law which requires you to pay a federal income tax.

They can't show it to you.

It doesn't exist.

Is this supposed to be sarcasm?

Hey...

<LOOKS AROUND>

This isn't Unplugged!

Where am I?


How did I get here?

Who are you people?


<LOOKING PASTY, AS IF IN DANGER OF FAINTING OR THROWING UP>

I...

never leave....

....gotta go....


b-back....



To Unplug....