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Holy crap I just looked up the drug they were using like one in 4-5 people have serious cardiorespiratory reactions to it. It also reacts badly with narcotics, epilepsy medicine, antipsychotic medicine, and alcohol.

ScifiterX wrote:

Holy crap I just looked up the drug they were using like one in 4-5 people have serious cardiorespiratory reactions to it. It also reacts badly with narcotics, epilepsy medicine, antipsychotic medicine, and alcohol.

By the way those are the sort of drugs related to people going smurf (either as a cause or a preventative).

Jdude wrote:

ScifiterX wrote:

Holy crap I just looked up the drug they were using like one in 4-5 people have serious cardiorespiratory reactions to it. It also reacts badly with narcotics, epilepsy medicine, antipsychotic medicine, and alcohol.

So the people prone to being violent (drunks, psychotics, and those on narcotics) are the prime target for this. The risk factor just went up.

Has anyone here drank to much and got a bit rough? Now you can get this injection. Still think it is proper?

No I'm convinced.
Night stick the smurf in the head like the good old days.
Choke holds worked well too, very few brain damage/deaths there.

Farmerkev wrote:

Jdude wrote:

ScifiterX wrote:

Holy crap I just looked up the drug they were using like one in 4-5 people have serious cardiorespiratory reactions to it. It also reacts badly with narcotics, epilepsy medicine, antipsychotic medicine, and alcohol.

So the people prone to being violent (drunks, psychotics, and those on narcotics) are the prime target for this. The risk factor just went up.

Has anyone here drank to much and got a bit rough? Now you can get this injection. Still think it is proper?

No I'm convinced.
Night stick the smurf in the head like the good old days.
Choke holds worked well too, very few brain damage/deaths there.

I win at teh internets!

He probably got a good clobbering during the tackling and injection part. I do not think there is any way around that.
So long as we avoid the Rodney style beatings, of course.

Those who know me know how much better.

240v & 14 amps here as well, sitting indian style with a dryer drum in both my arms when I hit that same finger on a live wire which I had lost track of it being off or on cause I'd flipped it a number of times already. Both my arms looked like Popeye's and much of the right hand look like melted plastic for several days. I still don't have full feeling in that hand. I was conscious the whole time, the circuit did not trip, and I escaped the electromagnetic anchoring by strength and adrenaline alone.

Oh I believe you. I think anyone who has been hit with a really big shock and has smelled that odor believes you.

I remember tasting my headache now too. (It doesn't make sense, but there is no other way to describe it.)

I cannot see my elbow from where I am sitting but the damage on my finger is gone.
I think I escaped your level of damage because I fell/jumped/dragged myself off of the equipment I was working on.
No feeling and no functioning from the elbow down is some scary smurf.

ScifiterX wrote:

mo' ron wrote:

ScifiterX wrote:

It's not demonstrably safer, faster, or cheaper and in some situations is riskier. It's just another wat to knock someone out to drag then and a less effective one at that. The only "advantage" of it is when it's done right their less evidence it happened.

I can't see how you can argue it's not safer. it's so obviously safer, it boggles my mind that you would argue otherwise.

Whether or not it's "right" is another more philosophical issue, but it's clearly safer, and likely faster (but probably more expensive...).

If it can kill and from what I just read it can quite easily do so how it be safer.

For the cohort as a whole, the death rate was significantly lower among patients who received midazolam than among those who received diazepam (0.76% versus 1.93%, p<0.01).

http://www.bio-computing.org/showabstra … d=15073792

.76% of people who get it die by that study. That seems relatively safe, and doesn't fall under being able to kill "quite easily."

Also, would you rather ride in a car with a crazy person who HAD been given the drug, or one that had not? Which do you think is safer?

Jdude wrote:

Here's my i got electrocuted story.

250v, 14 amps from my right middle finger and out through my right elbow. The person I was working with told me he flipped a safety switch, but did not. He thought it was not important.

Fortunately the path of current flow was in only one arm, else I would be dead.

When I finally felt my arm again it hurt so bad. The path of current flow was nowhere near my heart but I felt it there too. That SOB nearly killed me.

I'm surprised that didn't cook your arm. Ouch.

Between 1/4 and 1/2 ampere is all that is necessary to kill someone.

That's directly through your heart, I think. Your skin's resistivity is high enough that it takes a bit more than that, or the current has to somehow penetrate your skin.

mo' ron wrote:

ScifiterX wrote:

mo' ron wrote:

I can't see how you can argue it's not safer. it's so obviously safer, it boggles my mind that you would argue otherwise.

Whether or not it's "right" is another more philosophical issue, but it's clearly safer, and likely faster (but probably more expensive...).

If it can kill and from what I just read it can quite easily do so how it be safer.

For the cohort as a whole, the death rate was significantly lower among patients who received midazolam than among those who received diazepam (0.76% versus 1.93%, p<0.01).

http://www.bio-computing.org/showabstra … d=15073792

.76% of people who get it die by that study. That seems relatively safe, and doesn't fall under being able to kill "quite easily."

Also, would you rather ride in a car with a crazy person who HAD been given the drug, or one that had not? Which do you think is safer?

In hospitals, they don't typically have to worry about patients getting a hold of alcohol or PCP.

mo' ron wrote:

I also doubt the EMTs called in to administer this procedure devised by a doctor are going to choose to use the drug on just any old loon. And considering the sparsity with which this procedure is used, the cops/EMTs apparently know what they're doing enough not to give it to a PCP addict.

From the OP:

There is no research guideline. There is no validated protocol for this. There's not even a clear set of indications for when this is to be used except when people are agitated. By saying that it's done by the emergency medical personnel, they basically are trying to have it both ways. That is, they’re trying to use a medical protocol that is not validated, not for a police function, arrest and detention," Miles said.

An EMT might approach that level of of competence and a cop not so much. While there are good cops, that level of medical expertise is not even in a good cops forte. Add to that, a number of cops are simply of a bully mindset however. They simply have found a publicly acceptable outlet for that sort of behavior. While an EMT may have enough competence to know when administration is inappropriate, they don't always and they are subject to pressure from the cops and political maneuverings.

Indeed

There are so many things smurfed up about the whole situation I'm amazed it's gone as far as it has.