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As much as I am against this war personally I can't have any sympathy here.
He wasn't forced to join, it was completely of his own free will. Everyone knows when you join the military it's not like a regular job where if you don't like you can just quit. Basically he signed a contract and doesn't want to hold up his end. He should have done his "soul searching" before signing the enlistment papers

ShnickyShnack wrote:

I signed a contract when I took my present job, but I'm quitting anyway. I don't face jail time for doing so.

Employment contracts are broken all the time.

This "he signed a contract" argument strikes me as dumb.

Yes but your chances of dying on the job are slim to nil. Not so much the case when you join the military. Also you're showing up for the job and thus far holding up your end of the deal. This guy isn't showing up for the job. There are easier ways to get out like fail PT or the piss test. A friend of mine is an E8 (Master Sgt.). The Army really doesn't want people who don't want to be there. Those folks can/will endanger lives. There are legal pathways to get out.

LLEVIATHANN wrote:

The Army really doesn't want people who don't want to be there.

That's a joke, right?

There are legal pathways to get out.

And if those legal pathways fail?

Perhaps you don't understand the ideas of "draft" and "contract."

ShnickyShnack wrote:

I signed a contract when I took my present job, but I'm quitting anyway. I don't face jail time for doing so.

Employment contracts are broken all the time.

This "he signed a contract" argument strikes me as dumb.

Do you understand the concept that not all contracts are the same, and different contracts stipulate different penalties for breach of contract? Just because you worked for the Canadian government via the CBC doesn't mean your contract is any bit similar to an American soldier's contract with the DoD and Federal Government.

ShnickyShnack wrote:

Tallgeese wrote:

Perhaps you don't understand the ideas of "draft" and "contract."

Perhaps you don't understand the idea of things being "like" other things.

That would be an insightful comment except for the part where your statement about a contract being like a draft because 'once you're in you're in' doesn't actually make sense.

ShnickyShnack wrote:

Chickenhawk wrote:

ShnickyShnack wrote:

I signed a contract when I took my present job, but I'm quitting anyway. I don't face jail time for doing so.

Employment contracts are broken all the time.

This "he signed a contract" argument strikes me as dumb.

Do you understand the concept that not all contracts are the same, and different contracts stipulate different penalties for breach of contract? Just because you worked for the Canadian government via the CBC doesn't mean your contract is any bit similar to an American soldier's contract with the DoD and Federal Government.

Are there any other "contracts" that offer criminal prosecution in the event of said contract being broken?

Because lots of people have contracts, including with the Federal Government. Do they face jail time for breaking those contracts? Or, at worst, civil proceedings?

What makes the military different?

If you're seriously asking that question, you need to drop out of the thread for a few days while you do some research.

Which is why desertion is still punishable by death.


It is one thing to run away from a draft, but a different thing entirely when one volunteers.

"Once your in your in" is partly true. The initial enlistment contract is for 8 years. People sign, see "2 years active" or "4 years active" and totally ignore the next paragraph which says although you may not be on active duty, for 8 years from your initial enlistment you are subject to recall.
The paragraph after that says "during wartime, you are subject to extension past your contractual obligations".
There is even a box you can check if you are a consciencetious objector so they can put you in some lame job like cook or seamstress.
There is no mystery in the contract. It is spelled out very clear, with little blocks by each paragraph where one must initial to say "yes I read the paragraph". The biggest complaint I hear form involuntary extensions? "well I didn't read it!" So, you are a dumbass and you are still going. Next?

ShnickyShnack wrote:

I signed a contract when I took my present job, but I'm quitting anyway. I don't face jail time for doing so.

Employment contracts are broken all the time.

This "he signed a contract" argument strikes me as dumb.

It really depends on the terms of your contract and if your employer wanted to enforce them.
I'm willing to bet your contract does not stipulate any prison time for quitting. His, however does.
Even if your contract did have such a clause if your employer felt if was in everyones best interest to simply let you go that would be their right, same with him. If he reasoned with the army maybe he could have worked something out. Dishonorable discharges are given all the time. He would forfeit his benefits but he is doing that anyway. He chose a different way and now is facing the consequences

Jdude wrote:

Oh, nowhere in the contract does one become obligated to follow an illegal or unconstitutional order. If this guy saw or did something, he needs to come home and face the music or point fingers.

Oh God, not this again.

Some of these deserters talk about human rights abuses being commonplace, with everyone in the chain of command winking at it.

What do you do then?

I guess what really strikes me about this issue is the absence of sympathy for these guys. The legal issues are window-dressing, I think -- there's something emotional happening here. I just don't see what it is.

Who knew that things like "honor", "duty", and "loyalty" would stir emotion?