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Pithecanthropus wrote:

I've had this drug before when I went in for a angiogram.  The last thing I remember is commenting that the table was cold when they placed me on it.  The next thing I knew I was in my room.  My sister said she called me and that I answered but didn't make any sense.  And I don't remember a single second of it.

They could have implanted a CIA chip or raped me with a baton and I wouldn't have known.  If under arrest the could have Mirandized and convinced me to make a full confession to something I didn't do and I wouldn't remember thing one when I came to.

Frankly, I don't think the cops should be trusted with this kind of power.

Yeah, the memory wiping aspects are concerning (as I noted in the 19th post of this thread http://www.maclife.com/forums/post/1574410#p1574410 ). I would think there are other sedatives that don't wipe memories.

user wrote:

They should just give them a blunt, instead.

Pass them out at the school or post office so we could just skip the whole "being rough with the police to get free weed" thing.

ShnickyShnack wrote:

Farmerkev wrote:

By that time, the police had arrived. I was charging them with these sharp objects trying to make them shoot me, actually yelling at them to shoot me," he said.

When a Taser didn't work on Beasley, police turned to a brand new protocol -- an injection of Versed. Officers called emergency medical personnel for the injection.

"I remember they were holding me down. There was maybe four or five on each side, and I remember they were calling for something, you know. Some guy came up on the left side and hit me with it," he said.

"I do know that whatever it was works immediately. I mean, you ain't got a chance if you are 300 pounds. It's like a horse tranquilizer. I don't care. You're gone. It's a wrap," he said.

The alternative is what exactly?
Just shoot the guy dead?

They were able to control him enough to sedate him. Whatever happened to throwing these guys into a cell until they cool down?

Wait youwant us to "throw" him into a cell? Wouldn't that require cops to basically jump on the guy and subdue him, holding him down by his various extremities, potentialy apply stress positions till the guy calmed down enough where he coudl be thrown into his cell.

THere is no way, but to use force, when it comes to dealing with an unruly suspect who refuses to be arrested.
I don't see how "throwing" someone into a cell who doesn't want to be "thrown" into a cell  would not involve the cops using force to do so.

So then, what type of force will be used becomes the issue. As farmer kev asks,should the cops just shoot him? Probably not. THen you need to apply force in other ways, like batons or stun guns (facism!), or stress positions or choke holds, or kicking or punching. Or injections, apparently.

Last edited by everlong205 (2008-07-16 7:06 pm)

user wrote:

Hi and welcome to the thread.

As it has been pointed out injections that are intended for harmless restraint can cause unintended death. Physical restraints have pretty obvious danger points that have been known for years and can be recognized by any cop on the beat.

And EMT's are trained to recognize medical issues.

Pithecanthropus wrote:

The point is that they don't know beforehand what effect this drug will have because they have no idea what the person's medical history is.  The person could wind up DEAD because of the injection, be it a physical ailment or an interaction with another drug.

This is an unconstitutional abuse and must be stopped before someone pays the price.  It's going to take a wrongful death lawsuit to do it, unfortunately.

Medical personnel never have any idea of a patients history in emergencies unless they have the jewelry on.
You really don't have a point here.

user wrote:

People in emergency rooms are there, for the most part, because they have a serious medical situation that they want treated, which is quite different from an injection administered for a policeman's convenience.

And the only person that claims they do it for convenience is the OP.
8 times in 2 years isn't an everyday occurrence.
The guy in the linked article qualifies as a serious medical situation.

user wrote:

Which could easily become far more serious with an on-the-fly injection.

You're acting like there is a 50/50 chance of this happening, when it's more like a 2% chance. And for someone who is running around traffic wishing for death because they haven't taken their medication, a 98% the police will be able to safely contain them to get them help (the guy wasn't even charged) vs. a 2% chance he has to be further hospitalized (or the .7% chance he dies as a severe interaction) is more than worth it.

ScifiterX wrote:

.79% death rate with prompt medical attention with people of all levels of risk is not 2% risk of something happening here. The overall serious cardiorespiratiory reaction rate is closer to 23.5% despite the death rate.

In the medical world "serious" has a different meaning. THat just means he has to be monitored, which is why EMTs are called in to perform the procedure.

Additionally the people this policy affects are more often higher risk individuals. They are more likely to see issues as a a group than the overall average.

The .7% study came from patients, who are more likely that normal people to already be on some type of sedative. So I think it's reasonable to apply the .7% to the "higher risk" group as it is for hospital patients.

Also how many times have we heard about people in police custody arriving at the jail or hospital in a less than timely manner sometime with unexplained injuries particularly  if they were observed giving the officer a hard time before being loaded into said transport.

This is a completely different issue. History seems to show this procedure is very rare, and in this particular case, it wasn't used to rough him up, but to get him to a hospital where he was released without charge.

Ribtorus wrote:

I always thought sedating an out of control patient was standard stuff. Why not an out of control detainee? Imagine the lawsuits against hospitals if forcible sedation were illegal.

in a hospital, you have,.. a hospital.

in the street you have,.. a bunch of cops and a guy with a needle.

in soviet russia, cops give you drugs.

Didn't we see one of those in Total Recall?

If it can take down Schwartzie, they gotta work good!

Last edited by user (2008-07-21 8:29 am)