Forums | MacLife

If abortion is murder, than the tens of thousands of abortions committed around the world constitutes a holocaust; and just as killing Hitler to prevent the Second World War would be acceptable to most people, then killing abortion doctors should be considered okay.

If one views abortion as murder.

Conversely, saying abortion is murder, acknowledging the "holocaust" but saying it's not moral to kill the doctors makes no sense.

No.

You're a pacifist if you don't support taking human life under any circumstances. That is to say that even in the face of a holocaust.

ShnickyShnack wrote:

No.

You're a pacifist if you don't support taking human life under any circumstances. That is to say that even in the face of a holocaust.

...but this is one particular circumstance, not 'any circumstances.'

sturner wrote:

So, "the end justifies the means?"

Democracy failed. I didn't get my way!

"democracy" plays no part in deciding what rights and laws are constitutionally provided or prohibited. After Roe v Wade, a 100% vote could not ban abortion.

I heard that people such as Bill O'Reilly called him Tiller the killer. Way to incite the crazy people on the right there Bill! Then pro-choice groups try to distance themselves when their stance is pretty obvious judging from all the signs at their rallies.

Yes. Particularly for the pregnant woman.

ShnickyShnack wrote:

No.

You're a pacifist if you don't support taking human life under any circumstances. That is to say that even in the face of a holocaust.

You can be a pacifist and support the merciful taking of life for those who are suffering without realistic hope for treatment.

No he is confused.

jerwin wrote:

Is ShnickyShnack a pacifist?

Nope.

WICHITA, Kan. - A man charged with shooting a prominent Kansas doctor who performed late-term abortions has been advocating through mailings from his jail cell that such killings are justifiable and communicating with individuals on the fringes of the antiabortion movement, weeks after suggesting others might be planning similar attacks.

Scott Roeder, 51, is charged with first-degree murder and aggravated assault in the May 31 death of Dr. George Tiller - an attack that reignited the national debate over late-term abortion and gave Roeder icon status among extremists in the antiabortion movement.

From his cell in Sedgwick County jail, Roeder has been sending pamphlets that laud Paul Hill, who was convicted of murdering an abortion provider in 1994, as an “American hero,’’ and include examples of Hill’s writings about how the killing of abortion providers is justifiable.

Hill was executed in 2003 for killing Dr. John Bayard Britton and his bodyguard outside a Pensacola, Fla., abortion clinic.

Roeder has also been corresponding with the Rev. Donald Spitz - whose Army of God group’s website celebrates Hill and who says he sent Roeder seven of the pamphlets at Roeder’s request - and Linda Wolfe, an Oregon activist who has been jailed about 50 times for antiabortion activities and who is close friends with a woman convicted of shooting Tiller in the arms in 1993. She says Roeder mailed her one of the pamphlets.

No one has accused Roeder of breaking any laws because of his jailhouse correspondence.

But local and federal law enforcement agencies took seriously a threat Roeder made during a June 7 interview that there are “many other similar events planned around the country as long as abortion remains legal.’’

A judge raised Roeder’s bond to $20 million, citing his comment to the Associated Press, after a prosecutor argued Roeder’s ability to get his message widely disseminated should lead a reasonable person to believe he is engaged in “alleged acts of American terrorism.’’

The Sedgwick County public defender’s office, which is representing Roeder, did not immediately respond to a message seeking comment. And the Sedgwick County District Attorney’s office declined to speak about the matter.

Sedgwick County Sheriff Robert Hinshaw said he has assigned someone to read all of Roeder’s incoming and outgoing mail. He said Roeder has received about 100 letters.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/artic … _campaign/

Lonegunman Kung Fu

Last edited by daemon (2009-07-04 6:08 am)

Long, but it's a true story!

So, I'm a radio and talk show host. I'm hugely popular among Republicans and conservatives. On my show, I'm talking about abortion, which I know is a hot button issue that really gets people's blood boiling. I know that that's especially true among my particular audience, because my audience includes the segments of the population that are most widely responsible for acts of domestic terrorism: abortion clinic bombers. It's no secret to me that groups like the Army of God listen to my show, and that they are radicalized and militant.

So, as part of my show, I've decided to pick on one doctor. I don't address the topic in a general, or talk so much about the laws, about the politicians, about voting, about morals or ethics. I pick one doctor -- the most extreme player in a field my audience hates, in a field where my audience has a history of using violence to get what they want. And I vilify that guy. I demonize him. I dehumanize him.

Now, maybe I'm not the most self-reflective guy around. It doesn't occur to me how dehumanization is always one of the first steps in encouraging one large group of people to kill another group of people. It's how the Nazis made it so easy to kill the Jews; how the Hutus could take pride in slaughtering Tutsi "cockroaches."

So I make up vile nicknames for the one doctor who has become the symbol of an evil practice. I equate him to Nazis, to NAMBLA, and, of course, al Quaeda. And then one day the rhetoric even gets to me, and I go a bit too far and I say, "If I could get my hands on that guy...." Then I pause. Backup a bit. "Whoops! Can't say that. Can't encourage violence so directly."

But does it never occur to me that if I made myself feel that way, and want to act that way, that maybe I'm having the same effect on some people in my audience? Do I forget that a portion of my audience has a history of violence regarding this sensitive issue?

Maybe these things never occur to me. Maybe I just ignore them. I go back to business as usual -- the business of playing on people's passions, of arousing hate and disgust in my audience, the business of making them feel like they are at war with these... not people, no, we're not at war with people, not with other human beings; we're at war with Nazis and terrorists and murderers.

Then one day the doctor turns up dead. Murdered. The man who has been my show's target of rage and hate has been gunned down. And there are people at my door who want to blame ME! But I didn't pull the trigger. I didn't turn the gunman into a nutcase. All I did was go on my TV show and my radio show and say over and over again that this doctor was not a human being, that he is a murder, that he is the same as all the enemies we've set out to destroy both in the past and in the present. I cast him as the great white whale, and then I closed my eyes to the fact that most likely, in my audience, there would be an Ahab waiting to fire his hot heart's shell upon the whale's back.

So tell me how it's fair to blame me for what happened. Somewhere, in my weak knowledge of government, I know I even have a vague right to do these things. I'm entitled to express my "viewpoint" on this issue! It's my right, it's my right, it's my right!

And don't talk to me about morality and what my moral responsibility is here. My show takes place in a morality-free zone, and all that matters is what I can get away with legally. So what if subtly manipulating the gunman's moral compass was part of what caused him to act? The pinions of morality are what I use to play my audience.

Morality is just a tool for me to use, to build my ratings and line my pockets. So how dare you use morality to judge me. How dare you.

It's no secret to me that groups like the Army of God listen to my show, and that they are radicalized and militant.

I'm guessing it is your story since I can't find it elsewhere with google string search.

You should do what Rush, Hannity, et. al do - and call the Army of God what they are on the air - a bunch of sick twisted nuts, a disgrace to the human race.

You won't find them listening to you quite as often after that.

Well, that one is sure complicated in and of itself. Is is true that her head wound is on the left, yet her left hand had no residue? Or, that the only residue was trace, and that on her right hand? (This was via FoxSportsRadio host). Having shot 5 times. Allegedly. Curious if true.
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Just to update:

Friday was the deadline for defense to get access to the state's evidence.

July 28th the next court date.