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Because it isn't really a political thing for people to debate. It's more of a "holy cow, is he serious? Has he read ANY history books?"

I'm inclined to agree, but it's here.


(Who moderates this dump anyway? )

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8180180.stm

Torture claim against Iran trial


Mousavi (r) and Khatami have both denounced the trials
Defeated Iranian presidential candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi says opposition detainees put on trial have been subjected to "medieval torture".
He denounced the trials, which started on Saturday, as fraudulent and said the prisoners had been forced to confess.
Earlier ex-President Mohammad Khatami criticised the hearings as "show trials" that would damage confidence in Iran's Islamic establishment.
More than 100 people have been put on trial on charges including conspiracy.
Ten more people were brought before the court on Sunday, reports said.
The detainees, all held in the wake of the disputed elections on 12 June, include several leading reformers. Some are accused of rioting and vandalism, as well as the more serious conspiracy charges.
...

I love the smell of Gitmo in the morning. It smells like.... victory.

Well, then. We can sure stand up and denounce the Iranians for use of such barbaric practices, right?

Plus, some of these poor folks may actually be part of some covert action(s) Bush has had going for years. With Congress awarding money.

At this point in history, Iran is a direct result of U.S. actions. Iran is inextricable from us. Strangely, I'd not put Vietnam in that same paradigm.

daemon wrote:

Well, then. We can sure stand up and denounce the Iranians for use of such barbaric practices, right?

Yes, but then you go right back to the grand tradition of US bashing for every problem in the world.

Plus, some of these poor folks may actually be part of some covert action(s) Bush has had going for years. With Congress awarding money.

Proof?  Link?  Anything?  I'll take anything right now instead of bash Bush.  Again, you're resorting to "mention Nazis in the thread" tactics.

At this point in history, Iran is a direct result of U.S. actions. Iran is inextricable from us. Strangely, I'd not put Vietnam in that same paradigm.

Do you mean in 1979 when the Shah was seen as a US puppet and overthrown?  Interestingly enough, France during that time thought we were trying to overthrow the Shah.  So we were supplying both sides of the conflict if you believe everything you hear.

That was thirty years ago...

edit--I R bad at maf.

Last edited by MysticCow (2009-08-03 12:59 pm)

MysticCow wrote:

Do you mean in 1979 when the Shah was seen as a US puppet and overthrown?  Interestingly enough, France during that time thought we were trying to overthrow the Shah.  So we were supplying both sides of the conflict if you believe everything you hear.

That was twenty years ago...

Thirty--still not a long time.  Are you claiming that the actual U.S. involvement is unknown?

'Blah' indeed.  It's the most recent "nazi" comparison I can think of around here, and it was pretty strenuously defended.

Oh, that's right....

MysticCow wrote:

daemon wrote:

Well, then. We can sure stand up and denounce the Iranians for use of such barbaric practices, right?

Yes, but then you go right back to the grand tradition of US bashing for every problem in the world.

Plus, some of these poor folks may actually be part of some covert action(s) Bush has had going for years. With Congress awarding money.

Proof?  Link?  Anything?  I'll take anything right now instead of bash Bush.  Again, you're resorting to "mention Nazis in the thread" tactics.

At this point in history, Iran is a direct result of U.S. actions. Iran is inextricable from us. Strangely, I'd not put Vietnam in that same paradigm.

Do you mean in 1979 when the Shah was seen as a US puppet and overthrown?  Interestingly enough, France during that time thought we were trying to overthrow the Shah.  So we were supplying both sides of the conflict if you believe everything you hear.

That was thirty years ago...

edit--I R bad at maf.

That Shah was installed via U.S. backed coup overthrowing a legit elected gov't in 1953, iirc. So, it's really the whole Cold War period.

Here's the cite for Bush covert action and Congress money supply of same:

PREPARING THE BATTLEFIELD
The Bush Administration steps up its secret moves against Iran.
by Seymour M. Hersh
JULY 7, 2008


Operations outside the knowledge and control of commanders have eroded “the coherence of military strategy,” one general says.

Late last year, Congress agreed to a request from President Bush to fund a major escalation of covert operations against Iran, according to current and former military, intelligence, and congressional sources. These operations, for which the President sought up to four hundred million dollars, were described in a Presidential Finding signed by Bush, and are designed to destabilize the country’s religious leadership. The covert activities involve support of the minority Ahwazi Arab and Baluchi groups and other dissident organizations. They also include gathering intelligence about Iran’s suspected nuclear-weapons program.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008 … fact_hersh

BTW, it makes it sorta hypocritical for us to denounce torture activity when we're doing the same thing.