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Bat wrote:

resedit wrote:

Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him as righteousness.
It was always faith that brought righteousness.

Yet faith brought Abraham to the verge of killing his own innocent son. For all he or we knew/know he might've just eaten some bad 'shrooms and been hallucinating, but he let faith bring him thisclose to homicide.

This is enlightenment, good works, the fruits of faith?

Nowadays Abe'd be put under psych observation, his son into foster care, and even Fox might call it good.

This is actually a classic example of faith. Isaac was not a child when this occurred. He was a young man, and in fact, carried the materials required for the sacrifice. Further, Abraham was an old man when this happened. Isaac could have easily overpowered his father, but didn't - because he also had faith in God, and his father. Lastly, God intervened, and did not allow Abraham to harm his son - instead, He prepared a ram for sacrifice, which was conveniently stuck in a bush nearby.

God wanted to see if Abraham was willing to sacrifice all for his faith, not actually have him sacrifice all for his faith. This was a test of faith, not some Mayan ritual.

sturner wrote:

Though it was totally outside of the precepts of the religion, at the time, and that it was totally out of character.

So one can either assume that something was very wrong somewhere, or that Abraham knew that it was a test.

Abraham believed God's promise, so it's possible that he either:
A) believed God would stop him, which He did,
B) believed God would heal or raise his son from the dead, or
C) believed God would give him another son to fulfill the promise.

I suspect that he knew it was a test in any event, he just didn't know the outcome.

radarman wrote:

sturner wrote:

Though it was totally outside of the precepts of the religion, at the time, and that it was totally out of character.

So one can either assume that something was very wrong somewhere, or that Abraham knew that it was a test.

C) believed God would give him another son to fulfill the promise.

Ishmael.

resedit wrote:

Bat wrote:

Res, you of all folks with your epilepsy, should know something about how the brain can play one tricks, including on a very short-term basis.

Of course I do.
What's your point?

That Abe might've had some misfiring neurons that made him think he was hearing God (common in many conditions, chronic in many schizophrenics amngst others) due to anything from a nasty knock on the head to 'a bit of underdone potato,' a la Dickens- yet, according to Scripture, he didn't apply the brakes & say, "Whoa, this is wacked. Time out," and proceeded to nearly off his son. (At least accordiing to the story, more parable than literal fact perhaps, but then one should only draw limited conclusions from it).

radarman wrote:

sturner wrote:

Though it was totally outside of the precepts of the religion, at the time, and that it was totally out of character.

So one can either assume that something was very wrong somewhere, or that Abraham knew that it was a test.

Abraham believed God's promise, so it's possible that he either:
A) believed God would stop him, which He did,
B) believed God would heal or raise his son from the dead, or
C) believed God would give him another son to fulfill the promise.

I suspect that he knew it was a test in any event, he just didn't know the outcome.

...outcome C being a dead son. Myself, having looked down on enough dead- including both parents, close relatives, friends and more- I know that's something I wish to see little more of in future, tho I doubtless will. At least I didn't myself kill any of them, tho having to pull the plug on one is as close as I ever hope to come again.

CG5Addict wrote:

...Even myself because I live in a flesh and bone body still would be a little hesitated to kill my only son knowing what God could do. Sorry I'm not one of those lunatics who right off the cuff are willing to kill anybody.

...like that.

sturner wrote:

Pariah wrote:

resedit wrote:

Depends upon who your God is.

No, no it doesn't.
Religious fanaticism is always more about cultural traditions than religion. The radical evangelical movement is not an exception.

Precisely.

The fundamental Islamists are not pure in their beliefs. They incorporate some very ancient cultural aspects which is what they are basing a lot of their fundamental intolerance upon. It isn't against anything in Islam for girls to be educated or to share equally in political or secular society. It's a cultural bias based upon hunting/gathering/herding cultures of the 8th Century.

Plantation culture here.

sturner wrote:

Well, liberals are insidious. They probably have faked plate tectonics as well. Everyone knows that you can't move continents around. and Rock is very solid and impermeable.

And the idea of big rocks floating around is ridiculous!  They're much too heavy.  Only little rocks are light enough to float!

CG5Addict wrote:

Metacell wrote:

Those who believe the Bible to be the authoritative word of God are considered heretics by the people who compiled the Bible.  Only the Catholic Church is the authoritative word of God.  But you shouldn't always believe the first God who speaks to you.

I hope this is just sarcasm.

Huh? Why?  It's not.  It's a very well known argument.  Choosing the authority of the book the Catholics compiled over that of Catholicism itself is one of the foundations of the Protestant schizm.  In any case, I'm just pointing out that its all very silly to say these words or these people are invested with the authority of God (just because they say so).  If anything is, then everything is.

CG5Addict wrote:

Jokotai,CG5Addict,DukeofNuke,et.al wrote:

...(review if needed)...

I read these posts (as well as others) and they all have a similar point. But.... The Bible speaks  on this subject as well.
...

Yes, exactly...we know the Bible is the true word of God, because it says so....In the Bible.  Circular reasoning.  Ultimately, you believe because you choose too, not because it is logically convincing.

resedit wrote:

Jokotai wrote:

resedit wrote:

When God says jump, you ask how high on the way up.

Because blind fanaticism and willingness to kill for your god isn't causing us any problems today...

Depends upon who your God is.

Depends upon who you believe your God is.

Metacell wrote:

resedit wrote:

Jokotai wrote:

Because blind fanaticism and willingness to kill for your god isn't causing us any problems today...

Depends upon who your God is.

Depends upon who you believe your God is.

Nicely said, but I still disagree.  Fanaticism hasn't done the world any favors.