Forums | MacLife

sturner wrote:

The virtulization option is not as good as it seems for the highlighted customer usage. Games do NOT necessarily run well under virtulization.

I suspect you speak generally, not specifically about this finalized, tweaked, Windows-within-Windows mode. As a general rule it's true, but this is a narrower case, I think. For those who really want the best, a dual-boot with XP should still be optimal. I plan on going that route, have for years.

There has been much FUD about XP mode. In any case, we shall see. (IIRC AMD hardware is equipped for full hardware accel in XP mode).

Last edited by Bat (2009-10-06 3:00 pm)

sturner wrote:

Well, enjoy your virtulization.

I think you misread me. I don't foresee needing the feature, at least for some time; I plan on dual-booting XP (tho some report that as problematic with 7 RTM). Perhaps off a few years I'll have a separate machine for anything XPish I need and somehow can't run on 7 or some successor- drives aside, I tend to have parts enough (CPUs, mobos) for several machines, albeit different vintages. An outgrowth and benefit of building one's own over more than a decade.

Reports and prognostications being contradictory, I was fortunate enough to find an article by trusted old hand Loyd Case at THG. Good to see him working after ZD let go ExtremeTech's core staff... and I'll take his word on most such issues. Been reading him since CGW, mid-'90s. Haven't read it, won't 'til this evening after a long rest; but here's a taste and a link.

Virtualization is all the rage in the operating system world. The ability to run an OS inside other operating systems is a boon to IT managers in charge of large server farms. What’s been less clear are the benefits of a virtual OS on your desktop system. Sure, tech geeks like you and me will happily play with Linux running on Vista, Windows 7 on MacOS or even DOS on Windows 7.

We have to look back to the lessons learned with Windows Vista to see some of the most practical uses for desktop virtualization. While Vista has been successful as an OS for consumers (begrudgingly, you might say), its acceptance in corporate environments has been more limited.

There are a variety of reasons for this. Vista’s hardware requirements were substantially higher than Windows XP, which in turn would have meant large capital outlays for new PC hardware. Vista suffered from a series of well-known teething problems, including stability issues with graphics and audio drivers. So most of the larger IT shops stuck with Windows XP.

Meanwhile, on the home front, we saw a steady migration to Vista. In fact, in the past year, most consumer and home PCs seem to be shipping with the 64-bit version of Vista. This created a certain amount of grumbling, as older apps from the XP and, particularly, the Windows 9x era, would break under 64-bit Vista, even if they could run under 32-bit Vista.

With Windows 7, we’re likely to see an even stronger push into 64-bit land, both with business and home PCs. The need for backward compatibility still exists, however. So Microsoft’s solution for small business and sophisticated home users is Windows XP Mode.

We know you don't want to limit your options, though. So, we’ll also be taking a look at a different solution that’s also a free download, VirtualBox, an open source virtual machine package originally developed by Sun Microsystems. However, this isn’t a feature-by-feature comparison. We’re specifically focusing on the needs of Windows 7 users who have to run Windows XP for backward compatibility.

Win 7's XP Mode And VirtualBox: When You Need Windows XP

Table of contents
1 – Introduction
2 – What XP Mode Is...And Isn’t
3 – XP Mode Requirements
4 – Windows Integration
5 – When You Need 3D: VirtualBox
6 – Virtually There
7 – More on this topic

sturner wrote:

Well, enjoy your virtulization. You know that Virtual PC was originally a Mac program that ran under OS 8 and 9, until MS bought it and orphaned Mac users.

Ironic.

I wouldn't say that. They bought it for two reasons: 1) to have a virtualization solution for Windows Server and 2) to have a way to bring backward compatibility to the Xbox 360. MS did update VPC so that it would work on the G5. Then Apple switched to Intel. Parallels and VMWare came out for Mac, there wasn't much reason for MS to continue to offer it. Apple put a lot of developers in a bind when they switched architectures and then implemented the changeover ahead of schedule.

I've decided to keep MS products off my new laptop for now.

Today is release day. Fair overview/commentary at El Reg.

Comment Much better than Vista, and the best Windows yet. That seems to be the consensus view on Windows 7, and after two and a half months with the final build, I more or less agree - despite the niggling voice that says behind the new taskbar it is not really so different from Windows Vista.

Nevertheless, Windows 7 on its launch today is a better experience than Windows Vista was when released in early 2007, thanks to a UI polish, faster hardware, better drivers, and new features that users actually enjoy - Taskbar, Libraries, Aero Peek - rather than features that were detrimental to usability and compatibility even if there were good reasons for them. Yes, User Account Control, I'm thinking of you.

It is a good effort from the Windows 7 team, though its task was easier than that facing the Windows Vista crew. Windows 7 is a refinement of Windows Vista, whereas Vista was meant to be revolutionary.

sturner wrote:

Currently, the price for Win 7 upgrade is $10 more than the upgrade for an upgrade for XP Professional.

The full version is $300 for a Professional version. Students can get it for $30.

...Books? :tincupmax:

Still way over priced.

OTOH, at Newegg...

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM
Home Version
OEM

$109.99
Free Shipping

The same in Pro is $150. Students can get it for $30.

...Books? :tincupmax:

Last edited by Bat (2009-10-22 2:20 am)

Booksley wrote:

Bat wrote:

...Books? :tincupmax:

You have a PM. Or you would, if your Inbox wasn't full

Ya you popular non L4D playing person you!

You can still purchase an upgrade license but you can't do an in place upgrade over WinXP.

You have to wipe the drive and install from scratch.

AT has a big (18 page) review article up.

After nearly a year-long build-up, Microsoft’s ongoing pre-launch campaign to woo computer users has come to a close, with the public launch of Microsoft’s latest and greatest desktop OS, Windows 7.

Windows 7 is being born in to a world of uncertainty, one Microsoft has never faced before to such a degree. Apple’s (and Mac OS X) market share is the highest it’s been in over a decade. Linux has finally gained however small a foothold in home computers through netbooks. And what was Microsoft’s next-gen operating system, Windows Vista, has taken enough backlash that it’s going to be in therapy for the rest of its life.

By no means are these troubled times for Microsoft, but never has victory been less assured.

Unfortunately, Windows Vista started life as a technical misfit, something even we didn’t fully comprehend until later. It ate too much virtual address space, it copied files slowly, and it ran poorly on the lowest of the low-end computers of the time. Microsoft fixed many of these problems by the time SP1 hit, but by then it was too late. Vista went from a technical misfit to a social misfit, with no hope of immediate redemption.

So Windows 7 is being launched with some gargantuan tasks on its shoulders, few of them technical. First and foremost, it needs to reverse Vista’s (and by extension, Microsoft’s) bad image among existing Windows users, in order to get them off of the old and insecure Windows XP. Then it needs to help stem the continuing flow of Windows users to Mac OS X, which has continued to grow over the years. And finally, it still needs to innovate enough so that Windows doesn’t end up stagnant, and ideally sell a few copies to Vista users while it’s at it.

It’s a large order, one that as we’ll see Microsoft won’t completely deliver on, but they’re going to get fairly close to.

In the meantime, we’re left a launch that has been a very long time coming. Between the public beta, the public RC, and Win7 having been finalized 3 months ago, virtually anyone that wanted Win7 has had the opportunity to try it. Anyone could get the release version by the middle of August through TechNet, MSDN, Action Pack, or any other of a number of sources that Microsoft released Win7 to well ahead of the public launch. The real launch was 3 months ago, so the public launch is almost a technicality.

And with that said, let’s get started with our final look at Windows 7.

Windows 7 Performance Guide