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#26 2009-10-28 2:25 pm
- JakeTheTall
- Cargo Cultist
- From: In Permanent Opposition
- Registered: 2003-03-13
- Posts: 9599
Re: UN grumbling about UAV attacks
There's two drone "programs" active in AfPak. The US Military one, and the CIA one. The military has rules and laws it is obligated to follow. The CIA doesn't.
Jesus said to the servants, "Fill the jars with water"; so they filled them to the brim. Then he told them, "Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet." They did so, and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew.
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#27 2009-10-28 3:47 pm
- radarman
- Member
- Registered: 2005-02-28
- Posts: 3604
Re: UN grumbling about UAV attacks
The other question to ask is what constitutes an innocent civilian? If a person is giving aid to the enemy, then as far as I'm concerned, that person is just as much a valid target as the soldier/insurgent holding the gun. If we find a bad guy in their house, blow their house up, and they happen to die in the inferno - well, tough luck.
I know it's not necessarily that simple, especially when the bad guys intimidate locals into helping, but sometimes collateral damage is unavoidable. We go to much further lengths than most to avoid it, but the fact is; war is hell.
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#28 2009-10-28 3:57 pm
Re: UN grumbling about UAV attacks
Tallgeese wrote:
robco wrote:
Tallgeese wrote:
Now we have guided munitions that have drastically reduced civilian casualties and people like Philip Alston are complaining that our drones don't drop nets on the bad guys and carry them to court while reading their rights.
How do we know they're bad guys if we haven't tried them?
We're prosecuting a war, not conducting a police raid. In war, if you capture somebody then they are processed as a prisoner. If you aren't able to capture them, you can kill them.
When did we declare war?
It is an odd thing, but every one who disappears is said to be seen at San Francisco. It must be a delightful city, and possess all the attractions of the next world.
- Oscar Wilde
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#29 2009-10-28 4:48 pm
- Tallgeese
- Sternly Advising
- From: Pool Party
- Registered: 2000-10-17
- Posts: 34054
Re: UN grumbling about UAV attacks
Oh please.
I still believe in liberalism today as much as I ever did, but, oh, there was a happy time when I believed in liberals.
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#30 2009-10-28 5:16 pm
- JakeTheTall
- Cargo Cultist
- From: In Permanent Opposition
- Registered: 2003-03-13
- Posts: 9599
Re: UN grumbling about UAV attacks
For years the American troop count in Afghanistan was under 40,000. That's hardly going to war.
Jesus said to the servants, "Fill the jars with water"; so they filled them to the brim. Then he told them, "Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet." They did so, and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew.
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#31 2009-10-28 5:19 pm
- Tallgeese
- Sternly Advising
- From: Pool Party
- Registered: 2000-10-17
- Posts: 34054
Re: UN grumbling about UAV attacks
JakeTheTall wrote:
For years the American troop count in Afghanistan was under 40,000. That's hardly going to war.
I think the part where Congress authorized the military invasion of another country and the UN authorized regime change is the part where it became a war.
I still believe in liberalism today as much as I ever did, but, oh, there was a happy time when I believed in liberals.
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#32 2009-10-28 5:28 pm
- JakeTheTall
- Cargo Cultist
- From: In Permanent Opposition
- Registered: 2003-03-13
- Posts: 9599
Re: UN grumbling about UAV attacks
Tallgeese wrote:
JakeTheTall wrote:
For years the American troop count in Afghanistan was under 40,000. That's hardly going to war.
I think the part where Congress authorized the military invasion of another country and the UN authorized regime change is the part where it became a war.
Ok. And a poorly run war is still a war. Combat operations against an ill-defined and amorphous enemy just doesn't feel like a "war."
The fact that the CIA is using drones to attempt to kill warlords in Pakistan eight years after America invaded Afghanistan makes me wonder how that will help achieve whatever it is 'victory' looks like.
Last edited by JakeTheTall (2009-10-28 5:29 pm)
Jesus said to the servants, "Fill the jars with water"; so they filled them to the brim. Then he told them, "Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet." They did so, and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew.
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#33 2009-10-28 8:53 pm
- radarman
- Member
- Registered: 2005-02-28
- Posts: 3604
Re: UN grumbling about UAV attacks
JakeTheTall wrote:
Tallgeese wrote:
JakeTheTall wrote:
For years the American troop count in Afghanistan was under 40,000. That's hardly going to war.
I think the part where Congress authorized the military invasion of another country and the UN authorized regime change is the part where it became a war.
Ok. And a poorly run war is still a war. Combat operations against an ill-defined and amorphous enemy just doesn't feel like a "war."
The fact that the CIA is using drones to attempt to kill warlords in Pakistan eight years after America invaded Afghanistan makes me wonder how that will help achieve whatever it is 'victory' looks like.
Look at it as realistic training exercises for UAV pilots, and extended testing for UAV equipment. Taking out scumbags is a bonus.
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#34 2009-10-28 8:53 pm
- radarman
- Member
- Registered: 2005-02-28
- Posts: 3604
Re: UN grumbling about UAV attacks
JakeTheTall wrote:
Tallgeese wrote:
JakeTheTall wrote:
For years the American troop count in Afghanistan was under 40,000. That's hardly going to war.
I think the part where Congress authorized the military invasion of another country and the UN authorized regime change is the part where it became a war.
Ok. And a poorly run war is still a war. Combat operations against an ill-defined and amorphous enemy just doesn't feel like a "war."
The fact that the CIA is using drones to attempt to kill warlords in Pakistan eight years after America invaded Afghanistan makes me wonder how that will help achieve whatever it is 'victory' looks like.
Look at it as realistic training exercises for UAV pilots, and extended testing for UAV equipment. Taking out scumbags is a bonus.
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