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#1 2009-11-03 6:06 am

Pariah
James Carville Fan..
From: Belly Of The Beast, Oklahoma!
Registered: 2001-05-24
Posts: 18426

Court Looking At Gene Patents.

The case against the patent office and patent-holder Myriad Genetics of Salt Lake City is the first to challenge a patented gene under a civil rights allegation — in this case the First Amendment.
According to the federal lawsuit,filed in the Southern District of New York, the First Amendment is at stake because the patents are so broad they bar scientists from examining and comparing the BRCA1 and BRCA2 genes  at the center of the dispute. In short, the patents issued more than a decade ago cover any new scientific methods of looking at these human genes that might be developed by others.
According to the plaintiffs — dozens of patients and researchers — the genes cannot be patented because they exist as naturally occurring products of nature. The suit claims Myriad did not invent, create or in any way construct or engineer the genes. Rather, Myriad located them in nature and described their information content as it exists and functions in nature, the suit claims.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/11/genes/

I absolutely believe that such patents on discoveries of naturally occurring things should not be patentable.
Perhaps a very narrowly defined treatment based on genes but the genes themselves? Absolutely not.


"and it's not surprising that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
Barack Obama

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#2 2009-11-03 6:47 am

macnuke
just a plano guy
Moderator
From: North Dallas 40
Registered: 2004-05-16
Posts: 7134

Re: Court Looking At Gene Patents.

ya  Mother Nature owns those.
don't smurf with Mother Nature.

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#3 2009-11-03 6:53 am

resedit
Chicken Little
Royal Wombat
From: /dev/null
Registered: 1999-11-01
Posts: 50442
Website

Re: Court Looking At Gene Patents.

Pariah wrote:

I absolutely believe that such patents on discoveries of naturally occurring things should not be patentable

++


In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor

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#4 2009-11-03 5:02 pm

Pariah
James Carville Fan..
From: Belly Of The Beast, Oklahoma!
Registered: 2001-05-24
Posts: 18426

Re: Court Looking At Gene Patents.

Another thing I would like to see reviewed is the practice of going into indigenous tribes and taking natural remedies they have been using for centuries and patenting them in the USA.


"and it's not surprising that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
Barack Obama

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#5 2009-11-03 5:57 pm

JakeTheTall
Cargo Cultist
From: In Permanent Opposition
Registered: 2003-03-13
Posts: 9627

Re: Court Looking At Gene Patents.

Pariah wrote:

I absolutely believe that such patents on discoveries of naturally occurring things should not be patentable

So really you're saying "lets remove the incentives to a company to go through the expensive FDA trails to bring something to market that will immediately be sold by all other companies."

Big Pharma has some bad habits, but often there's a legitimate reason for why laws exist.


Jesus said to the servants, "Fill the jars with water"; so they filled them to the brim.  Then he told them, "Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet."  They did so, and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew.

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#6 2009-11-03 6:26 pm

Tallgeese
Sternly Advising
From: Pool Party
Registered: 2000-10-17
Posts: 34116

Re: Court Looking At Gene Patents.

JakeTheTall wrote:

Pariah wrote:

I absolutely believe that such patents on discoveries of naturally occurring things should not be patentable

So really you're saying "lets remove the incentives to a company to go through the expensive FDA trails to bring something to market that will immediately be sold by all other companies."

Big Pharma has some bad habits, but often there's a legitimate reason for why laws exist.

Yeah, how about adding the rest of his statement

Perhaps a very narrowly defined treatment based on genes


I still believe in liberalism today as much as I ever did, but, oh, there was a happy time when I believed in liberals.

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#7 2009-11-03 7:06 pm

Daniel
[dp] design#
From: Melbourne, FL
Registered: 2000-11-21
Posts: 9708
Website

Re: Court Looking At Gene Patents.

JakeTheTall wrote:

Pariah wrote:

I absolutely believe that such patents on discoveries of naturally occurring things should not be patentable

So really you're saying "lets remove the incentives to a company to go through the expensive FDA trails to bring something to market that will immediately be sold by all other companies."

Big Pharma has some bad habits, but often there's a legitimate reason for why laws exist.

Reading comprehension fail.

Patenting DNA is as ludicrous as patenting trees or rabbits.


Airman Dan
Private Pilot, Instrument Airplane Single-Engine Land
http://homepage.mac.com/dp.design/.Pictures/atat/AtAT-Banner.jpg

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#8 2009-11-03 8:11 pm

Pariah
James Carville Fan..
From: Belly Of The Beast, Oklahoma!
Registered: 2001-05-24
Posts: 18426

Re: Court Looking At Gene Patents.

The question is: Do we want the genome encumbered with patents to an extent that it has a chilling effect on future research?
The things is that a patent is not a property right. It is a limited monopoly that exists only to provide incentive for advancement in the arts. So a patent that would slow advancement is expressly unconstitutional.
The founders felt strongly about this and that's why they wrote it in to the Constitution.


"and it's not surprising that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
Barack Obama

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#9 2009-11-03 8:14 pm

sturner
Royal High Poobah
Moderator
From: Carrollton, TX USA
Registered: 2000-01-31
Posts: 13835

Re: Court Looking At Gene Patents.

If I'm older than they are, i claim first rights.


I'm not dead yet.
There are 3 types of people, those who can count and those who can't.
"There are few things graven in stone, excepting your date of death."

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#10 2009-11-03 9:22 pm

radarman
Member
Registered: 2005-02-28
Posts: 3639

Re: Court Looking At Gene Patents.

I thought we had already resolved this crap, and the outcome was that actual genetic sequences could NOT be patented, but tests that show the presence or absence could?

Seriously, the early days of genomics involved people pulling sequences off of printers as fast as the popped out, and running to the PTO. Most, if not all, of these gene patents were thrown out. However, specific tests were allowed, and THAT is what is irritating people.

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#11 2009-11-03 10:19 pm

JakeTheTall
Cargo Cultist
From: In Permanent Opposition
Registered: 2003-03-13
Posts: 9627

Re: Court Looking At Gene Patents.

Pariah wrote:

The question is: Do we want the genome encumbered with patents to an extent that it has a chilling effect on future research?
The things is that a patent is not a property right. It is a limited monopoly that exists only to provide incentive for advancement in the arts. So a patent that would slow advancement is expressly unconstitutional.
The founders felt strongly about this and that's why they wrote it in to the Constitution.

But if there's no incentive to find key parts of the genome, is that a larger effect of slowing advancement ?  (Not a rhetorical question, I don't know how private vs government funding compares.)


Jesus said to the servants, "Fill the jars with water"; so they filled them to the brim.  Then he told them, "Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet."  They did so, and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew.

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#12 2009-11-03 10:27 pm

Tallgeese
Sternly Advising
From: Pool Party
Registered: 2000-10-17
Posts: 34116

Re: Court Looking At Gene Patents.

The incentive to find key parts of the genome would be the ability to patent specific uses for those parts, not any uses for those parts simply by virtue of being the first to label them.


I still believe in liberalism today as much as I ever did, but, oh, there was a happy time when I believed in liberals.

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#13 2009-11-03 11:34 pm

sturner
Royal High Poobah
Moderator
From: Carrollton, TX USA
Registered: 2000-01-31
Posts: 13835

Re: Court Looking At Gene Patents.

Look! discovered the consituent parts of air! I'm gonna patent it and all you people will have to pay me to breathe.


I'm not dead yet.
There are 3 types of people, those who can count and those who can't.
"There are few things graven in stone, excepting your date of death."

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#14 2009-11-04 3:03 pm

JakeTheTall
Cargo Cultist
From: In Permanent Opposition
Registered: 2003-03-13
Posts: 9627

Re: Court Looking At Gene Patents.

I don't know enough about the technology, biology, and where the valuable information on treatments resides (i.e. finding the location in genome, or creating the treatment) to intelligently comment.

shrug


Jesus said to the servants, "Fill the jars with water"; so they filled them to the brim.  Then he told them, "Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet."  They did so, and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew.

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#15 2009-11-04 8:17 pm

Jokotai
Useful Minion
From: Spartanburg SC
Registered: 2009-08-18
Posts: 534
Website

Re: Court Looking At Gene Patents.

My question is, how are they going to attach trademark, registration, and patent notices to all of those itty bitty pieces of DNA?


There's what you love to do, and then there's what you get paid to do.  Those two things are often different.

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#16 2009-11-04 11:02 pm

Sternum
Slathered in barbecue sauce
From: Ribcage
Registered: 2002-01-10
Posts: 3352

Re: Court Looking At Gene Patents.

I'd better mail a sperm sample to the U.S. Patent Office as soon as possible!

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#17 2009-11-04 11:06 pm

Jokotai
Useful Minion
From: Spartanburg SC
Registered: 2009-08-18
Posts: 534
Website

Re: Court Looking At Gene Patents.

Don't forget to charge your offspring nominal licensing fees.


There's what you love to do, and then there's what you get paid to do.  Those two things are often different.

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#18 2009-11-05 6:39 am

Ribtorus
Member
Registered: 2002-07-11
Posts: 13759

Re: Court Looking At Gene Patents.

Patents are only as powerful as tthe willingness to defend them. This is just positioning for the real showdown which will be the imarketing between biotech companies and big pharma. It's mostly just a public manifestation their internal battles over share. The actual work being done now, and projected, will go on regardless and I doubt the outside consumer will notice much, directly.


when surrounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
and the women come out to cut up what remains,
just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains,
and go to your god like a soldier...

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