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INCONCEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEIBLE !


ok, ill take that iocane power now.

I have to know... Was your spelling error intentional?  (aside from the "E's."

I still want to know why do we drive on parkways and park on driveways?

* A "highway" is a strip of public land devoted to movement over which the abutting property owners have the right of light, air and access.
    * A "parkway" is a strip of public land devoted to recreation over which the abutting property owners have no right of light, air or access.
    * A "freeway" is a strip of public land devoted to movement over which the abutting property owners have no right of light, air or access.

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/infrastructure/simonson.htm

okay

All right, but what about conractions? They strike me as lazy, too, leaving out all those letters for one cotton-pickin' little line instead. And what about the almighty? Is he not all mighty?
I wouldn't use alright in an essay, but I still think it's alright to use it on an online forum.

Sure, contractions are lazy, too.  They've just become standardized.  Just like "alright" will be, no doubt.  Language changes.  I think that people ought to use the right spelling, grammar and all that good stuff all the damn time, just so we'd have a standard way of writing such that the ideas that are expressed take precedence.  But that's not feasible.   The Internet just breeds lazy and incomplete sentence structure (and ideas, as we've seen ), but hey, there are worse things, I guess.  It's the ideas that are important, but sometimes an "incorrect" style just allows for too much misunderstanding.

You're right that online fora are casual things.  There are more important things than grammar, that's for sure.  We English teachers just need to lay the grammar smack down sometimes.  It's our (partial) schtick.  At least in our classes.  Otherwise, you cretins are on your own.   

And I'll ask the almighty next time I run into her.  The illusion of almightiness can be powerful stuff, even if you aren't actually almighty.

(I realized I didn't even answer your question: As for contractions, the whole point is that the apostrophe marks the space where the letter would be, so I guess that means if you wrote "al'right" it'd be OK.)  A'ight? 

I wanted to comment on something you mentioned in an earlier post, since you and TheConfuzed1 are my kindred grammar spirits. Anyone who writes on a regular basis should be interested in understanding grammar because it lends to written language the flexibility that pitch, intonation and facial expressions give to spoken language. That, as far as I'm concerned, is reason enough to learn grammar, even if it isn't the most exciting subject.

On another note, irregardless makes me cringe. Proactive is a big one around my firm--I've learned to ignore it, but damned if I'll ever use it. I can't say I've ever heard "agreeance," but that would also make me cringe. My personal peeves include the incorrect use of pronouns: "The Johnsons gave Mark and I a present." Gah. The use of "myself" makes me especially nutty: "if you have a problem, please contact John or myself." Make it stop! Make it stop!

And benighted, this wet simian was always taught that using contractions in formal writing is unacceptable, but that's changed over the years. My boss, who is 30 years my senior, refuses to use contractions in any of the reports he prepares. Language changes, the rules change, and there are a few different schools of thought. The rules one person adheres to, another person may find pointless. When I was in graduate school, the members of the English department carried on a debate about the whether the use of "they" as a singular pronoun was acceptable. Some felt it was acceptable because then the student wasn't forced to choose "he" over "she" (or vice versa) and run the risk of getting marked for sexist language; others were simply not willing to accept "they" as anything other than plural. I thought about joining the debate, but I realized that I didn't want to jeopardize my reputation as a FRIGGIN GEEK. 

One thing that bugs me slightly:

"Hopefully, it won't rain tomorrow."

Hey buddy, the weather doesn't hope for anything.

"I'm hopeful that it won't rain tomorrow."

That's a little extra work though.

You can add that one to my list as well. 

And benighted, this wet simian was always taught that using contractions in formal writing is unacceptable, but that's changed over the years. My boss, who is 30 years my senior, refuses to use contractions in any of the reports he prepares. Language changes, the rules change, and there are a few different schools of thought. The rules one person adheres to, another person may find pointless.

Haha! EVOLVE OR DIE, LOWLY PRIMATE!

My personal peeves include the incorrect use of pronouns: "The Johnsons gave Mark and I a present." Gah. The use of "myself" makes me especially nutty: "if you have a problem, please contact John or myself." Make it stop! Make it stop!

I agree.  I have a sister-in-law who uses the pronoun "I" in every instance, whether it's as in "He and I went to the store," or "He gave she and I a gift."  ARRRRRGGGGGHHHH!  Damn it, get it right!  "He gave her and me a gift."  I can't stand it when pretentious people use the word "I" because they think it makes them sound sophisticated.  I don't claim to be a student of perfect grammar, but I try.  It particularly irritates me because she is a freakin' school teacher!    She actually goes out of her way to correct my perfect spoken sentences by incorrectly changing the pronouns.  When I hear someone speaking incorrectly I generally keep it to myself and don't say anything out loud.  In her case however, I have to make an exception and show her how she is a dumbass. 

You took the words right out of my mouth. One woman I work with has become obsessed with trying to nail me for a mistake--any mistake--whether it's something I wrote or said. And if for any reason I try to explain a grammar rule to her, she retorts, "I don't know the rules, but I do know when something is wrong."

Consider it a force of habit, but I can't bring myself to knowingly commit "grammatical sin," even in an online forum, where my language doesn't mean anything to anyone but myself.

I think you and I might have been separated at birth.

When I was in graduate school, the members of the English department carried on a debate about the whether the use of "they" as a singular pronoun was acceptable. Some felt it was acceptable because then the student wasn't forced to choose "he" over "she" (or vice versa) and run the risk of getting marked for sexist language; others were simply not willing to accept "they" as anything other than plural.

This is an interesting one for me, as well, as I remember the arguments back and forth on this subject in grad school.  This kind of situation is what the neuter pronouns are for.  And what a lot of people don't know is that the neuter is English is "he".  So when one needs to convey the lack of knowledge (or even absence) of gender, one "ought" to use "he". 

However, perhaps because most people don't know it, it's too easy to interpret it as the masculine.  And if one does that, well, one is excluding some 51% or the population, which hardly seems fair.  It's for that reason I don't really think that the best option.  I've taken to using the more cumbersome -- but more accurate -- "he or she", or, for hypotheticals (as in "Someone has a problem.  What should [he or she] do?"), alternating between the masculine and the feminine.  That is, sometimes using "he" and sometimes using "she".

These kinds of problems are a resulting, no doubt, of the English language being heavily geared towards the masculine, a situation that is changing, but which will result in a lot of tumult before some standards are adopted.

You took the words right out of my mouth. One woman I work with has become obsessed with trying to nail me for a mistake--any mistake--whether it's something I wrote or said. And if for any reason I try to explain a grammar rule to her, she retorts, "I don't know the rules, but I do know when something is wrong."

Geez!  How insufferable can a person get?  That's really lame.  On the other hand, self-contradicting statements are hella funny for those of us that get it.

The reason I brought this up again, though, was to say that it is true that, for most fluent speakers of a language, what sounds right, is, in fact, right.  Bad sentence structure just sounds wrong, and often students need to go with their gut instincts as far as the use of good grammar.  Being (hopefully) fluent, they are, oftentimes, the best judges of what's right or wrong.

Like any general statement, though, sometimes this is clearly not the case. 

Terrible.  I really hate it when people correct other people and are incorrect themselves.  Perhaps the one obligation someone has when correcting others is to be correct themselves (or, failing that, admit when he or she is wrong).  And this one's so easy, too!  One merely has to take out the first part of the conjuntional phrase (i.e. "John and I") and see if it sounds right/is correct.  Clearly, something like "please contact ... myself" sounds very wrong.  As is "He gave ... I a give"!  People who do that are probably trying to elelvate grammar to this pinnacle whereby they can look down upon people.  Grammar isn't an instrument of tyranny, or oughtn't to be.  It's just a system that helps words construct the language.

Actually, that is exactly how I show her the mistake that she has made.  I will turn one sentence into two, and then she realizes that I am right.  Again though, it's not about me being right and her being wrong for me.  If another person wants to use incorrect language, fine.  But don't correct my correct language with your incorrect language.  And again, it especially irritates me that she is a school teacher and I am sure that she is doing the same thing to her students.

TheConfuzed1, smack that sister-in-law for me, and I'll lay the smack down on my sister-in-law who does a similar thing -- and is a technical writer!  It really chaps my hide when professional writers or teachers of writing can't get it right.  How ya gonna teach people if ya don't know yourself?

Exactly.  I'm with you 100%.  I'll smack her for both of us. 

As for the contractions in formal or informal writing, I'm one of those who was taught that contractions weren't acceptable for formal writing, but I've broken free of that dogma.    To me, it's fine.  Contractions are standardized, and writers, especially students, need to find their voice when writing.  If contractions are useful, they ought to be allowed.  That's my view, anyway.

I have learned to accept peoples' grammar and use of language.  It doesn't upset me to see a contraction.  I use them myself sometimes.  But I have been taught to avoid them in formal writing, and in that case, I do.

Boy, I can not express how vividly thrilled I am to know that there are others out there who share my viewpoints on language.  It's good to know that I am not the only one.  I'm not a "grammar nazi."  I am a purist.    (Note the contraction in that last sentence.  )

Me too. My grammar is by no means perfect, and I don't worry about it too much in forums (oh, who am I kidding?), but it's really nice to know other people who have the same appreciation for the fundamentals. Oh yeah, and my students always used to affectionately refer to me as a "grammar toad."

So you're a teacher?  What do you teach, English?  bird teaches English.  I'm just a lowly car salesman. 

Here's an interesting question... bird doesn't capitalize his forum name.  Would it then be proper to leave it uncapitalized as the first word of a sentence, or should it be capitalized in this case?  Hmmm...

A big question here is this: is an internet BB supposed to conform to written language standards or is it a graphic representation of spoken language, with commas representing pauses, ellipses representing trailing off of voice, etc?

So you're a teacher?  What do you teach, English?  bird teaches English.  I'm just a lowly car salesman. 

Here's an interesting question... bird doesn't capitalize his forum name.  Would it then be proper to leave it uncapitalized as the first word of a sentence, or should it be capitalized in this case?  Hmmm...

Good question.  I think that, since I'm breaking the rule of having a proper name be uncapitalized to begin with, either's fine.  Or you just refer to be by a suitable honorific: "Your Majesty", or perhaps, "Your Worshipfulness".   

Or maybe I'll just start referring to myself in the third person.  It's true that bird has taught English, and will, hopefully teach it again, but now he is between jobs -- and, indeed, his last job wasn't teaching English either -- but he wishes he was teaching again.  The classroom is fun when you're not the one being assigned homework .  And students are great -- college-level ones, anyway.  I learn from them, as well.  The classroom ought to be a two-way learning street.  I don't pretend to know everything under the sun.  I prefer to teach "adults" because then they, ostentatiously, want to be there and can take some responsibility for their own learning.  I make a poor police, since I really dislike hounding people for something that's their choice.  (Damn, I knew I wouldn't be able to continue with the third-person thing for an entire paragraph.)

And I too, wonder what She Who Formerly Sniffed Chickens teaches as well... .