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#76 2003-09-17 2:06 am

~Coxy
Member
From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: 2000-04-05
Posts: 8477
Website

Re: New Apple Wireless keyboard and mouse!!

The whole point of turning a tape over and pressing Fast Forward instead of having a Rewind button is that it lowers the production costs of the unit, which is what they did with cheap units right up until CDs became popular. The higher market Walkman clones always had Rewind buttons.

Why are people complaining so much about a one-button wireless mouse? If you think that a Logitech MDJDMNC9385r0wufor84jfc93 with 56 buttons is a better choice, buy that! Why are you waiting for an Apple-branded device specifically?

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#77 2003-09-17 7:05 am

pcguy
Member
Registered: 1999-11-18
Posts: 5234

Re: New Apple Wireless keyboard and mouse!!

The whole point of turning a tape over and pressing Fast Forward instead of having a Rewind button is that it lowers the production costs of the unit, which is what they did with cheap units right up until CDs became popular. The higher market Walkman clones always had Rewind buttons.

Why are people complaining so much about a one-button wireless mouse? If you think that a Logitech MDJDMNC9385r0wufor84jfc93 with 56 buttons is a better choice, buy that! Why are you waiting for an Apple-branded device specifically?

Because a lot of people here is big "Apple" fan, and would like to use "Apple" brand if at all possible! that shouldn't be too difficult even for "you" to understand!


Do not settle for the world in shades of grey

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#78 2003-09-17 7:32 am

Daniel888
Member
Registered: 2002-03-03
Posts: 90
Website

Re: New Apple Wireless keyboard and mouse!!

... that it lowers the production costs of the unit, which is what they did with cheap units right up until CDs became popular.

*emphasis added*

Hmmm...I wonder what impression these units gave to purchasers when other models were available with "Rewind" buttons?  How many of these units were desirable compared to the other full-featured walkmans?   

I also wonder what impression apple is giving.

Edit here since the thread has branched into gaming and whatnot:

Well, *we* in this forum obviously care about Apple and know that they make some well-designed products (including the mouse).  However, many *other* people do not.  We can all feel smug about how great our computers (and mice) are, but the rest of the world for some reason doesn't share our enthusiasm.  In other words, sure, we all know (or some people think) that Apple makes great mice despite it having one button.  Some others don't, and they could have the wrong impression about Apple in a few years (just like the "no Rewind" walkmans).  They obviously do right now. 

Of course we know that we can obtain multi-button mice from different companies.  Many potential switchers *do not*.  From personal experience and anectodal evidence on these boards, it is hard for other potential switchers to get over this also.  I know it is not the only thing that prevents people from switching, but a multi-button mouse seems to be a very small change to make (its not like designing a motherboard).

It all comes down to this: does Apple want to continue to be a small, yet profitable company with a small user base?  Or does it want to be a profitable company with a larger user base (I'm assuming that it does not want to be an unprofitable company and that the two are not exclusive to each other as some people who post here seem to think).  I would think that it is more risky with a smaller user base (yes, yes, they are doing fine now and have a lot of cash reserves, etc.), and making a small change to a multi-button mouse (or offering it as an option) would clear yet another hurdle for potential switchers.  Now for the arguments:

1) It is too complicated: yes, for beginners.  But most potential switchers are from the PC and have been using multi-button mice already (there is no "beginner" model with a one mouse button.  Have you seen some of the kids coming up?  They know there way around a computer and multi-button mice like the back of their hand.
2) You can get a multi-button mouse if you want: true.  But somehow the word is not getting out.  How do people with no experience with Macs know this?
3) You can just take your other hand and hold down the command or control key.  Yes, you can always take out the tape, flip it over, press fast forward, and flip the tape over again to play it.  Instead of using a word processor, you can always use a typewriter.  Better yet, make it a manual, and use one of those brush erasers to get rid of your mistakes (instead of the handy "delete" key).  Calculate all of your footnotes, count how many lines from the bottom you need to stop typing your paper, and keep track of how many lines you type (so you don't run out of space at the bottom of the paper) -- or you could just use EndNote.  The point is, at some point there is more convenient path available, even if it could be done the other way.

And yes, not all people who want multi-button scroll mice are switchers, but die hard Mac users who simply want an elegantly designed mouse that only Apple can provide.  As you so eloquently (?) put it, we don't want a cheap beige PC mouse.  What is the harm in Apple designing a multi-button mouse with scroll wheel and offering it as an *option*? It ought to keep both the purists and the pros happy.

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#79 2003-09-17 7:55 am

~Coxy
Member
From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: 2000-04-05
Posts: 8477
Website

Re: New Apple Wireless keyboard and mouse!!

Yeah, because the damn cool, well built mouses that Apple provide with their machines are so much worse than the two-button beige smurf that you get from any other manufacturer.

Oh, and pcguy: if there's a person enamoured with Apple enough to buy only Apple-brand periphirals, then they've got no business demanding more buttons or a scrollwheel on their mouse. roll

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#80 2003-09-17 8:38 am

fizzwinkus
purebred fizzlewink
From: Austin, Texas
Registered: 2000-08-10
Posts: 4016
Website

Re: New Apple Wireless keyboard and mouse!!

give them credit, those two-button smurf bricks are often matte black or shiny silver along with beige. they've got three shades going now. i feel like demanding a 2-button mouse from apple is akin to demanding a decent downloading service fromthe riaa. oh, wait. theres itunes.


Warmest regards.

Sincerely,
Kevin

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#81 2003-09-17 9:15 am

pcguy
Member
Registered: 1999-11-18
Posts: 5234

Re: New Apple Wireless keyboard and mouse!!

Yeah, because the damn cool, well built mouses that Apple provide with their machines are so much worse than the two-button beige smurf that you get from any other manufacturer.

Oh, and pcguy: if there's a person enamoured with Apple enough to buy only Apple-brand periphirals, then they've got no business demanding more buttons or a scrollwheel on their mouse. roll

Actually that soap bar is really not that "well build", My Apple mousie "squeak" when press hard! what about your bar of soap?


Do not settle for the world in shades of grey

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#82 2003-09-17 9:17 am

mikedemo
Pro Mac User
From: Galactus
Registered: 2001-07-27
Posts: 1286

Re: New Apple Wireless keyboard and mouse!!

give them credit, those two-button poop bricks are often matte black or shiny silver along with beige. they've got three shades going now. i feel like demanding a 2-button mouse from apple is akin to demanding a decent downloading service fromthe riaa. oh, wait. theres itunes.

I really think its time for Apple to include two button mice. Why? Well aside from games being impossible to play with one mouse button like Quake 3, Starcraft and Aliens-vs-Predator2 to name a few, A lot of professionals buy macs and almost all the apps they use need a two button mouse or you'll be holding the cntrl key all the time.

Apple should add the option for a two button Apple mouse. I guarantee within a couple of months they'd find nobody wanting the one button mouse and phase it out.


I'm just a space Hobo,
and every where I go,
planets seem to go boom.

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#83 2003-09-17 9:31 am

Nutricious Me
Member
From: Cobra
Registered: 2003-07-28
Posts: 1719

Re: New Apple Wireless keyboard and mouse!!

I hate having batteries, and having a usb dock does not defeat the purpose of a cordless mouse, what ever gave you that idea? cordless mice are built so you don't have to stay stationary while on the computer, and you don't have all these cords in front of you. i guess BT mice are built to save a usb port, and thats handy with a laptop, but in other cases, I think having a BT mouse is just cool, and doesn't really have any extra values 
*whiny voice* but you can mouse up to 30 feet away! wah!


Who cares? Who goes to the kitchen with their mouse and starts using it? If it came with a little battery charger like Twisted said, then all would be forgiven, but it doesn't.

you know what would be cool, if the mouse attached to the back of your apple display for charging. that would be hella cool.


Crime is a disease. Meet the cure.

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#84 2003-09-17 9:36 am

Nutricious Me
Member
From: Cobra
Registered: 2003-07-28
Posts: 1719

Re: New Apple Wireless keyboard and mouse!!

give them credit, those two-button poop bricks are often matte black or shiny silver along with beige. they've got three shades going now. i feel like demanding a 2-button mouse from apple is akin to demanding a decent downloading service fromthe riaa. oh, wait. theres itunes.

I really think its time for Apple to include two button mice. Why? Well aside from games being impossible to play with one mouse button like Quake 3, Starcraft and Aliens-vs-Predator2 to name a few, A lot of professionals buy macs and almost all the apps they use need a two button mouse or you'll be holding the cntrl key all the time.

Apple should add the option for a two button Apple mouse. I guarantee within a couple of months they'd find nobody wanting the one button mouse and phase it out.

I found Q3 very playable with my one button, but when it comes to like America's Army and WC3, I just loooove my MX 700


Crime is a disease. Meet the cure.

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#85 2003-09-17 10:17 am

pcguy
Member
Registered: 1999-11-18
Posts: 5234

Re: New Apple Wireless keyboard and mouse!!

give them credit, those two-button poop bricks are often matte black or shiny silver along with beige. they've got three shades going now. i feel like demanding a 2-button mouse from apple is akin to demanding a decent downloading service fromthe riaa. oh, wait. theres itunes.

I really think its time for Apple to include two button mice. Why? Well aside from games being impossible to play with one mouse button like Quake 3, Starcraft and Aliens-vs-Predator2 to name a few, A lot of professionals buy macs and almost all the apps they use need a two button mouse or you'll be holding the cntrl key all the time.

Apple should add the option for a two button Apple mouse. I guarantee within a couple of months they'd find nobody wanting the one button mouse and phase it out.

I found Q3 very playable with my one button, but when it comes to like America's Army and WC3, I just loooove my MX 700

Your score will get better when you discover the magic of scroll wheel/righc button on Q3! smile to cycle your gun and jump jump jump smile


Do not settle for the world in shades of grey

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#86 2003-09-17 10:25 am

Twisted Guy
President of the Galactic Confederacy
Registered: 1999-03-28
Posts: 15984
Website

Re: New Apple Wireless keyboard and mouse!!

give them credit, those two-button poop bricks are often matte black or shiny silver along with beige. they've got three shades going now. i feel like demanding a 2-button mouse from apple is akin to demanding a decent downloading service fromthe riaa. oh, wait. theres itunes.

I really think its time for Apple to include two button mice. Why? Well aside from games being impossible to play with one mouse button like Quake 3, Starcraft and Aliens-vs-Predator2 to name a few, A lot of professionals buy macs and almost all the apps they use need a two button mouse or you'll be holding the cntrl key all the time.

Apple should add the option for a two button Apple mouse. I guarantee within a couple of months they'd find nobody wanting the one button mouse and phase it out.

I found Q3 very playable with my one button, but when it comes to like America's Army and WC3, I just loooove my MX 700

Your score will get better when you discover the magic of scroll wheel/righc button on Q3! smile to cycle your gun and jump jump jump smile

My friend was discovering that multi-button scrollwheel magic...while I slaughtered him 32 frags to 0 frags with my inferior 1-button mouse.


All hail Xenu!
http://imagegen.last.fm/EtherealForest/artists/5/TwistedGuy.gif

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#87 2003-09-17 10:49 am

frankly
Greetings Citizens!
Registered: 2000-09-16
Posts: 5103

Re: New Apple Wireless keyboard and mouse!!

Yeah, because the damn cool, well built mouses that Apple provide with their machines are so much worse than the two-button beige smurf that you get from any other manufacturer.

Oh, and pcguy: if there's a person enamoured with Apple enough to buy only Apple-brand periphirals, then they've got no business demanding more buttons or a scrollwheel on their mouse. roll

You really don't get it. Because we absolutely LOVE the design of Apple's computers, monitors, iPod, etc. we EXPECT nothing less from them when they design a keyboard and mouse. This is why people are complaining. When you look at the same company that designed the iPod, or the LCD iMac, or the G5 you expect a better mouse. Period!

Later, Frank


xkcd: Listen to Yourself

There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't.

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#88 2003-09-17 10:50 am

frankly
Greetings Citizens!
Registered: 2000-09-16
Posts: 5103

Re: New Apple Wireless keyboard and mouse!!

give them credit, those two-button poop bricks are often matte black or shiny silver along with beige. they've got three shades going now. i feel like demanding a 2-button mouse from apple is akin to demanding a decent downloading service fromthe riaa. oh, wait. theres itunes.

I really think its time for Apple to include two button mice. Why? Well aside from games being impossible to play with one mouse button like Quake 3, Starcraft and Aliens-vs-Predator2 to name a few, A lot of professionals buy macs and almost all the apps they use need a two button mouse or you'll be holding the cntrl key all the time.

Apple should add the option for a two button Apple mouse. I guarantee within a couple of months they'd find nobody wanting the one button mouse and phase it out.

Exactly! Maya, which has been praised by Apple for coming to the Mac, REQUIRES a three button mouse. Yes, it is listed in the requirements for the product. Try using it without one and you will be hurting.

Later, Frank


xkcd: Listen to Yourself

There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't.

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#89 2003-09-17 10:58 am

adndgamer
Member
From: Stevens Point, Wisconsin
Registered: 2000-03-25
Posts: 4979
Website

Re: New Apple Wireless keyboard and mouse!!

Hey, castration is now the new trend  up

For that clean-cut look.


Unix-fu.com: *nix, perl, D&D, and other geekiness.

Blog

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#90 2003-09-17 2:16 pm

mikedemo
Pro Mac User
From: Galactus
Registered: 2001-07-27
Posts: 1286

Re: New Apple Wireless keyboard and mouse!!

give them credit, those two-button poop bricks are often matte black or shiny silver along with beige. they've got three shades going now. i feel like demanding a 2-button mouse from apple is akin to demanding a decent downloading service fromthe riaa. oh, wait. theres itunes.

I really think its time for Apple to include two button mice. Why? Well aside from games being impossible to play with one mouse button like Quake 3, Starcraft and Aliens-vs-Predator2 to name a few, A lot of professionals buy macs and almost all the apps they use need a two button mouse or you'll be holding the cntrl key all the time.

Apple should add the option for a two button Apple mouse. I guarantee within a couple of months they'd find nobody wanting the one button mouse and phase it out.

I found Q3 very playable with my one button, but when it comes to like America's Army and WC3, I just loooove my MX 700

Your score will get better when you discover the magic of scroll wheel/righc button on Q3! smile to cycle your gun and jump jump jump smile

My friend was discovering that multi-button scrollwheel magic...while I slaughtered him 32 frags to 0 frags with my inferior 1-button mouse.

I guarantee you wouldn't stand a chance against me. Multi-button mouse allows me to have access to functions I want faster. The one button mouse is not inferior, it just lacks buttons. One button, one function simple as that.


I'm just a space Hobo,
and every where I go,
planets seem to go boom.

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#91 2003-09-17 3:47 pm

NorthernComfort
Member
Registered: 2003-04-23
Posts: 622

Re: New Apple Wireless keyboard and mouse!!

My Logitch MX500 offers 7 buttons and a scrollie... which would you pick? Hot damn.

How much is that again?

Mine was $50, the price might have even dropped since the wireless came out. So not only is it ridiculously better than the "Pro" mouse, it's cheaper too! Hot damn!


NorthernComfort
Hallelujah la mizerable! Hallelujah la mizerable! Hallelujah la mizerable!

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#92 2003-09-17 4:20 pm

Twisted Guy
President of the Galactic Confederacy
Registered: 1999-03-28
Posts: 15984
Website

Re: New Apple Wireless keyboard and mouse!!

give them credit, those two-button poop bricks are often matte black or shiny silver along with beige. they've got three shades going now. i feel like demanding a 2-button mouse from apple is akin to demanding a decent downloading service fromthe riaa. oh, wait. theres itunes.

I really think its time for Apple to include two button mice. Why? Well aside from games being impossible to play with one mouse button like Quake 3, Starcraft and Aliens-vs-Predator2 to name a few, A lot of professionals buy macs and almost all the apps they use need a two button mouse or you'll be holding the cntrl key all the time.

Apple should add the option for a two button Apple mouse. I guarantee within a couple of months they'd find nobody wanting the one button mouse and phase it out.

I found Q3 very playable with my one button, but when it comes to like America's Army and WC3, I just loooove my MX 700

Your score will get better when you discover the magic of scroll wheel/righc button on Q3! smile to cycle your gun and jump jump jump smile

My friend was discovering that multi-button scrollwheel magic...while I slaughtered him 32 frags to 0 frags with my inferior 1-button mouse.

I guarantee you wouldn't stand a chance against me. Multi-button mouse allows me to have access to functions I want faster. The one button mouse is not inferior, it just lacks buttons. One button, one function simple as that.

Did I mention I was handicapped to 30% of my health and armor?  Whenever I play with my friends, they insist that I play handicapped to 50% health at the most.


All hail Xenu!
http://imagegen.last.fm/EtherealForest/artists/5/TwistedGuy.gif

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#93 2003-09-17 4:29 pm

pcguy
Member
Registered: 1999-11-18
Posts: 5234

Re: New Apple Wireless keyboard and mouse!!

give them credit, those two-button poop bricks are often matte black or shiny silver along with beige. they've got three shades going now. i feel like demanding a 2-button mouse from apple is akin to demanding a decent downloading service fromthe riaa. oh, wait. theres itunes.

I really think its time for Apple to include two button mice. Why? Well aside from games being impossible to play with one mouse button like Quake 3, Starcraft and Aliens-vs-Predator2 to name a few, A lot of professionals buy macs and almost all the apps they use need a two button mouse or you'll be holding the cntrl key all the time.

Apple should add the option for a two button Apple mouse. I guarantee within a couple of months they'd find nobody wanting the one button mouse and phase it out.

I found Q3 very playable with my one button, but when it comes to like America's Army and WC3, I just loooove my MX 700

Your score will get better when you discover the magic of scroll wheel/righc button on Q3! smile to cycle your gun and jump jump jump smile

My friend was discovering that multi-button scrollwheel magic...while I slaughtered him 32 frags to 0 frags with my inferior 1-button mouse.

I guarantee you wouldn't stand a chance against me. Multi-button mouse allows me to have access to functions I want faster. The one button mouse is not inferior, it just lacks buttons. One button, one function simple as that.

Did I mention I was handicapped to 30% of my health and armor?  Whenever I play with my friends, they insist that I play handicapped to 50% health at the most.

Hey hey!! Your mama say wake up! wake up! you shouldn't be daydreaming in the middle of such a fine day! now go wash up and get ready for dinner! go!


Do not settle for the world in shades of grey

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#94 2003-09-17 4:33 pm

Twisted Guy
President of the Galactic Confederacy
Registered: 1999-03-28
Posts: 15984
Website

Re: New Apple Wireless keyboard and mouse!!

confused


All hail Xenu!
http://imagegen.last.fm/EtherealForest/artists/5/TwistedGuy.gif

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#95 2003-09-17 5:23 pm

Digital
Photon Manipulator
From: Guess. Nope, not there either.
Registered: 2003-07-22
Posts: 3137
Website

Re: New Apple Wireless keyboard and mouse!!

He is getting in the habbit of doing things like that now.


My Tuna spits in your general direction

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#96 2003-09-18 12:50 am

~Coxy
Member
From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: 2000-04-05
Posts: 8477
Website

Re: New Apple Wireless keyboard and mouse!!

Hey, I'll tell you what: you get to use your 52 button mouse, and I get to use my one button.

I'll win, though, because I've got a [b]super secret technique for winning![b] Simple place your left hand on the keyboard, and you'll be able to move and look at the sime time, switch weapons, jump, and more!!!!!!!! eek  eek  eek

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#97 2003-09-18 12:57 am

Twisted Guy
President of the Galactic Confederacy
Registered: 1999-03-28
Posts: 15984
Website

Re: New Apple Wireless keyboard and mouse!!

The best part was when, later that evening, I started up a bot-match with 8 bots on Nightmare difficulty, but forgot to turn off the handicap...

That experience wasn't nearly as satisfying as slaughtering my friend 32-0 with such a handicap.


All hail Xenu!
http://imagegen.last.fm/EtherealForest/artists/5/TwistedGuy.gif

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#98 2003-09-18 1:32 am

fizzwinkus
purebred fizzlewink
From: Austin, Texas
Registered: 2000-08-10
Posts: 4016
Website

Re: New Apple Wireless keyboard and mouse!!

Hey, I'll tell you what: you get to use your 52 button mouse, and I get to use my one button.

I'll win, though, because I've got a [b]super secret technique for winning![b] Simple place your left hand on the keyboard, and you'll be able to move and look at the sime time, switch weapons, jump, and more!!!!!!!! eek  eek  eek

you just made me think of an optical scroll keyboard. its easy, just move the keyboard around like a mouse. all the buttons anyone could ask for  blotto


Warmest regards.

Sincerely,
Kevin

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#99 2003-09-18 1:42 am

cheesy
Member
From: LA, CA / Seattle WA / SF, CA
Registered: 2001-09-21
Posts: 1813

Re: New Apple Wireless keyboard and mouse!!

Who cares how you play/win...if you're good your good.

If you're good with a single button mouse and the keyboard, more power to ya. If you're good with a multi button mouse, great.

What matters is how good you are, not how you're good.

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#100 2003-09-18 11:42 am

ConnertheCat
7 Months Later
From: Penfield, NY
Registered: 2001-07-21
Posts: 13405

Re: New Apple Wireless keyboard and mouse!!

An AC adapter seems excessive for a keyboard and mouse, how about a USB cable that provides power?

And...! And...! They could make the cable a PERMANENT part of the keyboard so you wouldn't ever lose it! Genius! wink

For that kind of innovation, they should charge like $100!


Solar Plexus!

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