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Kosovo started as good intentions but was quickly smurfed up by Klarks leadership plain and simple.

A war crime, hmmmm, no, not really. Just a lot of stupid mistakes.

Actually, the truth is the Kosovo operation probably qualifies as a war crime. It was certainly a war of aggression, and was not authorized by the UN.

I personally consider it part of a sad litany of war crimes perpetrated in the name of Western, and in particular US interests. Its perpetrators should be definitely punished, if possible.

I'm wondering Shnicky, how do you figure this? NATO steps in to try to stop the murder and displacement of thousands of innocents, and you think it's a war crime? 

The operation was rather poorly conducted and the aftermath wasn't ideal, but that hardly qualifies it as a war crime...

I'll say the same thing I said before the Iraq war: under international laws and agreements signed by ever member of NATO (plus as enshrined in the UN charter), it's considered illegal to go to war except in self-defense. Only a UN-authorized action is legal.

Now, in the case of the Kosovo operation, they couldn't go through the UN because Russia, which has always been chummy-chummy with Serbia, threatened a veto, so they went through NATO instead. Indeed, it was the first time NATO had ever gone to war in its fifty-odd year history.

It also raised many of the same issues that were raised in the Iraq operation: why just in this instance, and not others? Why, if "peace" and "liberation" was so important, did it take so long to see action?

Just to make matters worse, a lot of the horror stories about the Serbs in Kosovo were exaggerated -- or at least made to seem certain when really no one was quite sure what was going on. Many claim the exodus of ethnic Albanian refugees streaming from Kosovo was actually the result of the bombing campaign, not ethnic cleansing.

The real motivation for tha war, in my view, was not so much to protect the Kosovars, but to isolate or "liberate" Serbia in order to stablilze Eastern Europe. There were always fears that ethnic bloodshed could spill over into other regions, which could have been ghastly -- lord knows most of that region is a collection of ethnic stewing pots which are never far from the boiling point.

Another motivation, in my opinion, was to reaffirm the legitimacy of NATO which, in the absence of a Soviet threat, was starting to look pretty useless. Furthermore, the war helped show Russia (and China) who was boss.

Bottom line: from a strictly legalistic viewpoint, the Kosovo war was no more legal than the Iraq war. Indeed, the wo operations have a great deal in common.

In fact, I think only one thing, and one thing alone separates them: the amount of international support. Kosovo had NATO and Europe, not to mention the bulk of the UN Security Council (except for Russia), and in fact served to bring a lot of countries onside, as is evidenced by the international character of the occupation forces.

Iraq served only to divide and alienate former allies, not to mention isolate Washington. And unlike Kosovo, the aftermath is all in America's court.

Anyway, no matter what, anyone who thinks Kosovo was a war crime [cough]Oolatec[/cough] has to also believe that Iraq was, too. And, alas, vice versa. Certainly Serbia was no threat to the West -- indeed not long before the war, Western diplomats were praising Slobodan Milosevic for helping bring an end to the Bosnian conflict.

Sorry, but the UN does't run the world.

But neither does the U.S...

As a matter of fact, I did support the Kosovo operation, although I know a lot of people who didn't. It did kind of piss me off that it came so soon after Rwanda, which was a million times worse, and which the State Department refused to even call a genocide. Clinton really has blood on his hands with that one.

The operation itself was not a war crime.  How General Weasly Clark, as Allied Supreme Commander of NATO dealt with the conflict, indeed was.

     

You realize, of course, that makes no sense whatsoever.

No it was NOT a war crime  in itself.

It was a war we had no business participating in.  I partly agree with Schnick on that point.

As a matter of fact, I did support the Kosovo operation, although I know a lot of people who didn't.

Ok, you were starting to scare me there.

US interventionism is stupid.

We have problems here at home. Our $ and labor is better spent addressing them.

Isolationism is not the answer.

Well, ya gotta be fair. Even if the Kosovo operation achieved some good, the law is the law, y'know? Most of all, I hate hate hate that a Kosovo or an Iraq can happen, and everyone pats themselves on the back, while far worse (or more threatening) things are ignored.

Yeah, but you can't tackle all the evil in the world. Sad and wrong, but it seems to be a fact of life.

And I fully support the idea that "An unjust law is no law at all". ie, If, legally, one is prohibited from trying to stop a genocide, that law is crap, and should be ignored.

What if the law says one must stop a genocide, and one does nothing? That's what happened with Rwanda.

What if the law says one must stop a genocide, and one does nothing? That's what happened with Rwanda.

Well that wrong too, but I was talking about Kosovo.

Wait a minute...I believe that war IS allowed by international law in cases of documented genocide.

In fact, I think either the UN or NATO (both?) require intervention in cases of documented genocide (not that that always happens, obviously).

I don't understand why that thread was closed.  If Mart's rantings are going to dictate what threads get left open or not there ain't gonna be smurf  left to talk about!

Wait a minute...I believe that war IS allowed by international law in cases of documented genocide.

In fact, I think either the UN or NATO (both?) require intervention in cases of documented genocide (not that that always happens, obviously).

Was it officially categorized as genocide? I can't remember.

You're quite right, though: under US and international law, many countries (including the US of A) are not only allowed, but required to intervene to stop genocide.

I do believe it was.