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#1 2003-01-28 7:18 pm

nrubenstein
Member
From: Scottsdale, AZ
Registered: 2003-01-28
Posts: 1

ARE MACS COMPETITIVE WU CRUNCHERS WITH P4'S?

Dear  Mac Seti Gurus:

I recently ?switched? back to Apple for my laptop from a PC to the 1 gig 15? TiBook with 1 gig of ram, etc (and have a 17? AlBook on order since 1/10).
(I?ve owned Macs in the past for personal use, but mainly PC?s due to work, etc. I am now thinking of switching my main desktop and ancillary machines to Macs as well ? OS X 10.2 is THAT good compared to Win XP Pro ? Oh, and I am a subscriber to your excellent magazine)  javascript:emoticon('big_smile')

I am concerned, though, at the rather pitiful output I am getting on my Mac compared to my Pentium P4 computers in crunching Seti@Home work units.

I tried the GUI Seti program for OS X with my TiBook and was averaging only 1 WU per 12 hours. Following the advice on your website, I replaced the OS X  DUI program with the applicable Unix command line program, and increased my WU output to one every 7.5 ? 8 hours. However, my P4 1.5 gig averages 1 WU per 5 hours, and my P4 2.5 gig, 1 WU per 3 hours.

Is there anything I can do to increase the WU production on my 15? TiBook and upcoming 17? AlBook (both 1 gig G4)? Also, were I to go crazy and splurge on one of the new dual 1.42 gig PowerMacs, what type of WU production is realistic to expect from this computer?

Many thanks,

Norm


Norman L. Rubenstein
nlr@rubensteinlaw.com

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#2 2003-01-29 2:57 pm

dvpierce
Negusa Negest
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From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: 1999-08-30
Posts: 16800

Re: ARE MACS COMPETITIVE WU CRUNCHERS WITH P4'S?

Well, a 500 MHz mac will crunch a WU in 12 hours, and a 2 MHZ Athlon will do it in 3, so the time/MHz performance is the same. With G4s maxing out at 1.4 GHz and P4s at 3 GHz+, the short answer is no way in hell will a mac match the WU throughput of a Pentium. Sorry.


"Now commences the process of cutting off the head, which generally takes from an hour to an hour and a half by an expert workman with a sharp blade." -Reuben Delano, Wanderings and Adventures

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#3 2003-06-28 12:39 pm

Pro_
One skull short of a mousketeer reunion
From: my parents, thanks for asking.
Registered: 2002-12-07
Posts: 3866

Re: ARE MACS COMPETITIVE WU CRUNCHERS WITH P4'S?

but then again, dual procs


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#4 2003-06-28 1:21 pm

caol
Member
From: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Registered: 2003-02-02
Posts: 328

Re: ARE MACS COMPETITIVE WU CRUNCHERS WITH P4'S?

I'm running a 1GHz DP MDD at home, with two Seti clients running, and a P3 933 running OS/2 Warp 4.51 at work.  I'm averaging about 9 wu/day out of the combination, three from each processor.

The Seti@home client is not compiled with any optimizations.  There are just too many OS and processor combinations to be sure that everyone is doing exactly the same thing otherwise.  This is one app where processor speed means almost all.  There can be some speed bumps if you have good L1 and L2 caches versus no cache.


To teach superstitions as truth is a most terrible thing.
            - Hypatia of Alexandria

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#5 2003-06-28 4:14 pm

modingo
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From: Microsoft, Washington
Registered: 2002-05-16
Posts: 29
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Re: ARE MACS COMPETITIVE WU CRUNCHERS WITH P4'S?

That'll do the trick!


"Wise men learn from their own mistakes. Yet, the wisest of all, is the man who learns from the mistakes of those wise men." [author unknown]

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#6 2003-06-28 6:05 pm

dvpierce
Negusa Negest
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From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: 1999-08-30
Posts: 16800

Re: ARE MACS COMPETITIVE WU CRUNCHERS WITH P4'S?

but then again, dual procs

Windows PCs can have dual CPUs, too.


"Now commences the process of cutting off the head, which generally takes from an hour to an hour and a half by an expert workman with a sharp blade." -Reuben Delano, Wanderings and Adventures

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#7 2003-06-28 8:59 pm

MadMan 459
Missing Inaction
Royal Wombat
From: St Paul, Minnesota
Registered: 2000-01-17
Posts: 7973

Re: ARE MACS COMPETITIVE WU CRUNCHERS WITH P4'S?

Sadly, SETI@home is one of the apps that relies heavily on raw processor speed. AltiVec (or Velocity Engine.. whatever) would really kick S@h in the ass, but as someone else mentioned, the S@h client is not optimized for any processor. This was a decision made early on in the program as they found that when the client was optimized for the Pentium 3/4 (Using SSE2 or whatever it's called) there were too many errors being introduced into the result data. I'm not sure on the tech reasons for it, but I believe it has something to do with SSE does predictive math. They decided that it wasn't worth the risk or trouble to optimize any of the clients after that.

Anyway, MHz to MHz, PCs and Macs work out about the same right now. You've already made the biggest boost by ditching the screen saver version for the CLI version.

However, I'm dying to see what kind of times will come out of the new G5s. It's a whole new ballgame with those puppies, with their faster processors, bus speeds, memory, you name it, I'm sure they will just scream.

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#8 2003-06-29 4:38 pm

dvpierce
Negusa Negest
Moderator
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: 1999-08-30
Posts: 16800

Re: ARE MACS COMPETITIVE WU CRUNCHERS WITH P4'S?

It's a whole new ballgame with those puppies, with their faster processors, bus speeds, memory, you name it, I'm sure they will just scream.

With 9 fans, I think they will fly.


"Now commences the process of cutting off the head, which generally takes from an hour to an hour and a half by an expert workman with a sharp blade." -Reuben Delano, Wanderings and Adventures

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#9 2003-07-10 10:09 am

stonysleep
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From: Wherever I may roam
Registered: 2003-05-31
Posts: 435
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Re: ARE MACS COMPETITIVE WU CRUNCHERS WITH P4'S?

I'm gonna make a guess at the times of the G5s: 10 units per day so about 2 to 3 hours per work unit. That would be in keeping with MHz ratings. 450MHz G4: 12 hours/WU 12/4.444 = 2.7/WU but i'm gonna say with it 64bit u'll get a bit more out of it, plus being dual processor there'll be a bit more too. So prob closer to 2 hours/WU

That sound about right to people?


| Motorola G4 7400@450MHz | Sawtooth Motherboard | ATX Case | Hitachi GD3000 DVD | LiteOn 48125S CDRW | Maxtor 120Gig HD | Zip 100 | Samsung 128MB SD PC100 Hyundai 256MB SD PC133 | 17" Sony LCD Monitor | WinFast Geforce 2MX 32MB | Mac OSX 10.2.8 |

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#10 2003-07-12 5:02 pm

Steve Jobs fan
Member
From: Penang, Malaysia
Registered: 2001-02-04
Posts: 663

Re: ARE MACS COMPETITIVE WU CRUNCHERS WITH P4'S?

If Seti@home decides to make a 64-bit version suited for the G5s, we could well see 1 hour per unit per processor.. Imagine... 50 units/day.

Just for comparison:

1) P4/3.2 800FSB 1:22
2) P4/3.0 800FSB 1:29

These are crazy numbers; and if the benchies were carried out using HT, and running 2 copies of the client, there will be an additional 5-10% increase in production.

The people in my ex-Folding team had a pool in which every member contributes abit and the Mod or Admin buys a fast Machine and process WUs for the team. Should we start collecting?


Sembang.tk - My Forums
Mac fan from 1997-1999. Bought a PC ever since wink But still loves Apple.

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#11 2003-08-13 1:19 am

KTDL
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From: not quite sure........
Registered: 2003-08-03
Posts: 432
Website

Re: ARE MACS COMPETITIVE WU CRUNCHERS WITH P4'S?

my 5o0mhz ibook and 266mhz linux box run circles around my dad's two 2.06ghz wintels.


as long as you are alive there is a chance that you will die.... but eventually fate catches up with you.

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#12 2003-08-13 2:41 pm

MeOrI
Member
From: Williston, Vermont
Registered: 2002-08-22
Posts: 370

Re: ARE MACS COMPETITIVE WU CRUNCHERS WITH P4'S?

While Mhz do matter with S@H, it's not the only factor.

My friends 1.8Ghz DP Athlon is 80% higher on the Mhz scale than my 1Ghz DP G4. But only does WU's 42% faster on average.
Also, my 400Mhz G3 Powerbook is about 50% faster than that same friends 600Mhz Celeron laptop.

shrug



Moi

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#13 2003-09-19 3:40 am

tigerwolf7
Member
Registered: 1999-10-12
Posts: 1269

Re: ARE MACS COMPETITIVE WU CRUNCHERS WITH P4'S?

I can't wait to find out how the G5's perform on Seti.  Like what a DP 2Ghz G5 running two copies of the command line client can do.  Seti loves floating point performance, and from my experience seems to like the G4 pretty well, so...

I get about 10:30 (tops) per work unit on my DP G4 5410 533Mhz, meaning about 5:15 effectivly per work unit.  If the G5 scales just with clock speed, then it would be getting about 1 hour and 20 minutes per work unit.  But hopefully the 970 is much better than the 5410 at the same clock speed.  The 970 has two floating point units, which hopefully even without optimization will help speed things up.

As impressed as I am with the G4's Seti performance on a clock for clock basis, I'm equally unimpressed with the G3.  I always thought the G4, especially the first 5400/5410 models were just G3s with SIMD tacked on, but my G3 750CXe 700Mhz averages around 11-13 hours, which is not only much worse than a first gen G4, but also worse than a P3 Coppermine or a P4 Northwood ON A CLOCK FOR CLOCK BASIS!  So obviously a lot more changed between the G3 and G4 than just Altivec getting tacked on...

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#14 2003-09-21 9:14 pm

ericmw
Member
From: Middle of Everywhere
Registered: 2000-04-26
Posts: 420

Re: ARE MACS COMPETITIVE WU CRUNCHERS WITH P4'S?

well I can tell you from my experience w/ the PC I just built that it really blows away what my iMac can do.  iMac does about 1 a day and PC has done up to 9 or so a day.

since it seems Mhz is the defining factor my iMac is 400mhz and my pc is an AMD Barton 2500+ which I've overclocked and I'm running at 2.1Ghz.

On the plus side my output has shot through the roof and I'm moving up the list fast.  1440 now and moving fast.

Eric

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#15 2003-09-23 9:11 pm

dvpierce
Negusa Negest
Moderator
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: 1999-08-30
Posts: 16800

Re: ARE MACS COMPETITIVE WU CRUNCHERS WITH P4'S?

You're still only going to be pacing me - My XP2400 runs quite hapily anywhere below 2.25 GHz, (above 2.26 it seems to like rebooting a lot around the ime I get to the Windows login screen - I can takea hint, hunny) and I've got the DDR333 coming in the mail. I'll be shooting for a 2.19 GHz CPU on a 175 MHz FSB/Memory, which seems modest.

I'm already doing 8 a day with a 2.17 GHz CPU on a 136 MHz FSB, so nyah!


"Now commences the process of cutting off the head, which generally takes from an hour to an hour and a half by an expert workman with a sharp blade." -Reuben Delano, Wanderings and Adventures

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#16 2003-09-24 4:51 pm

ericmw
Member
From: Middle of Everywhere
Registered: 2000-04-26
Posts: 420

Re: ARE MACS COMPETITIVE WU CRUNCHERS WITH P4'S?

I'm running at a 200mhz FSB.  I'm sure if I lowered it and raised my multipler up I could hit 2.3Ghz.  I've seen people get quite a bit higher then that too. 

Anyways before we get into a pissing contest we are on the same team I assume.  so the better we are the better for the team.

eric

PS you tried running prime 95's torture test for 12+hrs?  you might be stable but this is a great way to see how stable you are.  Basically it computes some numbers until a number doesn't match its list or you quit it.  I ran 25hrs error free.

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#17 2003-10-01 2:13 am

Barakuda
Member
From: Louisville, KY 40206
Registered: 2000-08-05
Posts: 326
Website

Re: ARE MACS COMPETITIVE WU CRUNCHERS WITH P4'S?

Dual 2Ghz G5s, baby.  up


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#18 2003-10-01 4:36 pm

tigerwolf7
Member
Registered: 1999-10-12
Posts: 1269

Re: ARE MACS COMPETITIVE WU CRUNCHERS WITH P4'S?

You mean you have a dual G5?  Load up two copies of the command line client and tell us what it averages per work unit!  It should be fantastic.  It would be pretty danged good if all it was doing was keeping pace with a G4 5410 on a clock for clock basis, but presumably it's going to be much better than that.  I wonder if the second FPU gets used much at all, or if code really has to be recompiled to use it well.  If the second FPU is getting used, a dual G5 is just going to be scary at Seti.

EDIT: Those G5 systems have power/noise management stuff where they're usually underclocking the CPU.  So I wonder what happens when they're running Seti?  I guess it would run the CPUs full speed since the OS would see the CPU utilization at 100%.

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