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#51 2003-12-24 1:29 pm
Re: There Is No God.
Camp David is CATHOLIC?
I thought he was a bloody puritan that promoted murder and mutilated his children??!thats a really nice thing to say
I am Catholic aswellWell, CD does seem to enjoy the thought of a million liberals hung to death the way other people enjoy a good back massage.
He also seems to favor making Saddam Hussein watch as an unspecified group of men gang-rape his daughter. Not to mention other interesting and disturbing ideas that seem to conflict with the teachings of Christ.
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#52 2003-12-24 1:31 pm
- Nakisisa
- Member
- Registered: 2002-12-24
- Posts: 70
Re: There Is No God.
Nakisisa, thanks, and happy holidays
to you as well. I'm not clear on the 'stick on
the ice' reference, but I'm sure you mean well.
An ancient Canadian blessing 
Started long ago, when our primitive ancestors placed the first hockey stick and puck upon the Great Frozen Lake. 
As to proving the existence of God...I think that it's impossible to prove the existence of something that is beyond/above the universe (or at least beyond that which we can and will ever be able to perceive). If there is a God beyond the universe, then we would be at the mercy of his (its?) discretion when it came to revelatory data. God could interface with us, but we could not do likewise. Faith is a crazy thing...almost like a separate entity I think...
Of course, for a pantheist it's a slightly different matter... 
Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.
-Jesus
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#54 2003-12-24 1:33 pm
- soulcrusher
- Banned
- From: Princetown, Jamaica
- Registered: 2000-10-21
- Posts: 3816
Re: There Is No God.
conflict with the teachings of Christ.
Better say that "conflict with the Catholic Church's interpretation of the teachings of Christ". Because I am sure that some wacko protestants can justify rape and murder using the scriptures.
"VERY HOT 20-year-olds in GAY ACTION FILMED BY BIG BREASTED CALIFORNIA BABE"
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#55 2003-12-24 1:34 pm
- Jaligard
- Sarcasm is just one service I offer.
- Registered: 2001-02-03
- Posts: 5199
Re: There Is No God.
Just to throw in my 2
George Bush: "If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator."
George Bush: "One of the hardest parts of my job is to try to connect Iraq to the war on terror."
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#56 2003-12-24 1:38 pm
- Tallgeese
- Homo loquax nonnumquam sapiens
- Registered: 2000-10-17
- Posts: 34923
Re: There Is No God.
So you wouldn't believe in a Christian God because fundamentalism is stupid? You know, the vast majority of people who are Christian, Jewish, or Muslim do not believe in that either.
I still believe in liberalism today as much as I ever did, but, oh, there was a happy time when I believed in liberals.
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#57 2003-12-24 1:41 pm
- soulcrusher
- Banned
- From: Princetown, Jamaica
- Registered: 2000-10-21
- Posts: 3816
Re: There Is No God.
So you wouldn't believe in a Christian God because fundamentalism is stupid? You know, the vast majority of people who are Christian, Jewish, or Muslim do not believe in that either.
Maybe he doesn't approve the minimum wage either because communism is stupid?
"VERY HOT 20-year-olds in GAY ACTION FILMED BY BIG BREASTED CALIFORNIA BABE"
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#58 2003-12-24 1:41 pm
Re: There Is No God.
conflict with the teachings of Christ.
Better say that "conflict with the Catholic Church's interpretation of the teachings of Christ". Because I am sure that some wacko protestants can justify rape and murder using the scriptures.
Just look at what some Muslims do with the Koran. I have not read it (it's on my to-do list), but I serious doubt that flying airplanes into skyscrapers was anywhere in there.
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#59 2003-12-24 1:58 pm
- Jaligard
- Sarcasm is just one service I offer.
- Registered: 2001-02-03
- Posts: 5199
Re: There Is No God.
So you wouldn't believe in a Christian God because fundamentalism is stupid? You know, the vast majority of people who are Christian, Jewish, or Muslim do not believe in that either.
I think that at some point you have to reach a point where you look at a book and say, "If it's wrong about this, why should I assume it's right about that?" I do appreciate that most Christians do not take a literal interpretation of Biblical creation, but just because they can reconcile the book doesn't change my beliefs in the matter.
Maybe he doesn't approve the minimum wage either because communism is stupid?
Screw it. Touch for soulcrusher.
George Bush: "If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator."
George Bush: "One of the hardest parts of my job is to try to connect Iraq to the war on terror."
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#60 2003-12-24 2:31 pm
- macfiend
- Apply directly to the forehead
- From: Los Angeles, CA on errf
- Registered: 2000-05-03
- Posts: 1964
Re: There Is No God.
the koran doesnt say things like that. but if you read it. it has a much different "tempo" than the bible has. you really can see how easily it would be for a government or an influencial person to twist it into militancy. the koran basically to me anyways, is like the Old Testiment, like with the strict rules and beliefs.
read the Koran, i think you will notice the more combative aggressive type tempo or rhythm if you will. its a very camptivating message, you can see that if a naive person or the type of person that "needs" something to believe in could really get swollowed up by Islam. not that this is bad and to each his own, but its noticable of the powerful anti-nonbeliever message. rhythm in the koran seems to be a very important factor.
“You never get no back talk from no corpse”
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#61 2003-12-24 2:40 pm
- Jaligard
- Sarcasm is just one service I offer.
- Registered: 2001-02-03
- Posts: 5199
Re: There Is No God.
I'm reading it right now, or trying to, anyway. It keeps putting me to sleep.
It's very Muslim-specific. They are special (as seems to be the case with most religions) and everyone else is marginalized. Reading it (at least as far as I've been able to), you can see why it would be part of Al-Qaeda's plan to bring the U.S. into combat with the Middle East. The infidel is really reviled and even in defeat to them, the Koran demands they be resisted. In short, this conflict could really bring Islamics together in very bad ways. We do not want a united Middle East.
George Bush: "If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator."
George Bush: "One of the hardest parts of my job is to try to connect Iraq to the war on terror."
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#62 2003-12-24 2:43 pm
- Jaligard
- Sarcasm is just one service I offer.
- Registered: 2001-02-03
- Posts: 5199
Re: There Is No God.
I don't see any evidence that he exists. I see lots of evidence that contradicts the depiction of the Universe in the books espouse him.
You have yet to provide a valid example.
He seems every bit the petty, vengeful gods that the Romans, Greeks and everybody else worshipped (except without the sex and intrigue).
On the contrary, it is us as humans who have spit in the face of His gift of Salvation. A petty God would not sacrifice His son to offer the beings who despised Him salvation. That's about as loving and caring as you can get.
He's not godly enough for me. If he turns out to be real, and it turns out that he made the Universe as described in Genesis, I'm going to be disappointed. That's how a six-year old would make a universe. What we see
George Bush: "If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator."
George Bush: "One of the hardest parts of my job is to try to connect Iraq to the war on terror."Offline
#63 2003-12-24 2:55 pm
Re: There Is No God.
I'm sorry. I'm in a very jovial mood right now and I have to point it out.
I'm reading it right now, or trying to, anyway. It keeps putting me to sleep.
It's very Muslim-specific.
The Koran is Muslim specific? The hell you say!
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#64 2003-12-24 3:11 pm
- Jaligard
- Sarcasm is just one service I offer.
- Registered: 2001-02-03
- Posts: 5199
Re: There Is No God.
I'm sorry. I'm in a very jovial mood right now and I have to point it out.
I'm reading it right now, or trying to, anyway. It keeps putting me to sleep.
It's very Muslim-specific.The Koran is Muslim specific? The hell you say!
Well, obviously...
Seriously, though, it's meant to only be read by Muslims to Muslims. The Old Testament and the New Testament were more secure. They weren't meant to be that accessible to everyone. The Old Testament was meant only for the Jews but the New Testament is intended to be shared with outsiders (in a limited fashion).
Basically, The Koran is the propaganda of the Muslim religion where the Old and New Testaments were never intended to be so (not directly anyway).
George Bush: "If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator."
George Bush: "One of the hardest parts of my job is to try to connect Iraq to the war on terror."
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#65 2003-12-24 3:18 pm
- macfiend
- Apply directly to the forehead
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- Posts: 1964
Re: There Is No God.
yeah it reads like that
“You never get no back talk from no corpse”
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#66 2003-12-24 3:20 pm
- SonicSamurai
- Tachikoma!
- From: Section 9
- Registered: 2003-01-28
- Posts: 5129
Re: There Is No God.
Oh goodness.... just like Through the Looking Glass is a slash against organized religion right? Pffftt.... 
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#67 2003-12-24 3:27 pm
- Jaligard
- Sarcasm is just one service I offer.
- Registered: 2001-02-03
- Posts: 5199
Re: There Is No God.
Fine...
I don't see any evidence that he exists. I see lots of evidence that contradicts the depiction of the Universe in the books espouse him.
You have yet to provide a valid example.
The geological and astronomical record discounts a literal interpretation of Genesis. The fossil record, for instance, depicts a different order of life creation than that of Genesis, chapter one.
Now, this evidence may not satisfy you, but that's not my problem.
He seems every bit the petty, vengeful gods that the Romans, Greeks and everybody else worshipped (except without the sex and intrigue).
On the contrary, it is us as humans who have spit in the face of His gift of Salvation. A petty God would not sacrifice His son to offer the beings who despised Him salvation. That's about as loving and caring as you can get.
I actually disagree here. The sacrifice (of his son) is being made why? Because are ancestors disobeyed him and ate some fruit? He's righting a wrong that exists only in his mind. That he would sacrifice a single person for this (his son or not) suggests that he's petty. Furthermore, what does the sacrifice accomplish? We still have to worship and obey him. Fail to do so and you end up in the Lake of Fire. That's pretty far from loving and caring. This is the kind of behavior you'd expect from a ruthless dictator.
He's not godly enough for me. If he turns out to be real, and it turns out that he made the Universe as described in Genesis, I'm going to be disappointed. That's how a six-year old would make a universe. What we see
George Bush: "If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator."
George Bush: "One of the hardest parts of my job is to try to connect Iraq to the war on terror."Offline
#68 2003-12-24 3:57 pm
- macfiend
- Apply directly to the forehead
- From: Los Angeles, CA on errf
- Registered: 2000-05-03
- Posts: 1964
Re: There Is No God.
the one component youre leaving out of youre scientific version of how the universe was created is HOW DID IT START???? no one knows that. Steven Hawking even said that there must have been some outside starting force to "ignite" the whole process of creation. you say how beautiful it is, is that not God? is it randomness that makes such things? i believe not. even through science creation and the universe is theoretical..such requires a certain belief. so dont come here with some scientific stuff that you only know enough to talk theory and picked up on something that is hearsay and is in no way scientific fact.
“You never get no back talk from no corpse”
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#69 2003-12-24 4:08 pm
- Jaligard
- Sarcasm is just one service I offer.
- Registered: 2001-02-03
- Posts: 5199
Re: There Is No God.
the one component youre leaving out of youre scientific version of how the universe was created is HOW DID IT START???? no one knows that. Steven Hawking even said that there must have been some outside starting force to "ignite" the whole process of creation. you say how beautiful it is, is that not God? is it randomness that makes such things? i believe not. even through science creation and the universe is theoretical..such requires a certain belief. so dont come here with some scientific stuff that you only know enough to talk theory and picked up on something that is hearsay and is in no way scientific fact.
I can assure you that science does not see the universe as theoretical. That's more of a philosophy thing.
I leave out the beginning process of the Big Bang because I know nothing about it. I cannot say how or why it happened (or even if it has a why). That I cannot answer the question does not, to me, imply a god. Maybe to Stephen Hawking it does but it's a question he can't answer anyway.
The process I've described does not appear in the Bible, or at least as far as I'm aware. To attribute it to God
George Bush: "If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator."
George Bush: "One of the hardest parts of my job is to try to connect Iraq to the war on terror."
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#70 2003-12-24 4:19 pm
- macfiend
- Apply directly to the forehead
- From: Los Angeles, CA on errf
- Registered: 2000-05-03
- Posts: 1964
Re: There Is No God.
i believe you are wrong about how science sees the explaination of the creation of the universe. although science can disprove somethings other scientist have theorized..others have just come later and disproved those. it is based on theory..why do they call one such theory "the string theory"? or "the theory of relativity" ??
its not philisophical. you leave off the big bang beginning because not only do you know nothing about it, but noone else does either. the process in the bible is just as God created, it doesnt really specify how it actually came to be physically or scientifically. basically it states in his way.that he did it and he created the heavens and the earth. it doesnt say that he fused atomic particles together that contained the mass of the whole entire universe, thus causing a collapse and being fueled by certain other molecules or atomic particles..caused a chain reaction to create all the universe as we know it. it just says he created it.
basically the point is that you can believe in science or God. Science is good for searching for answers and for bettering our existance. but you always come back to the question that science cannot answer. how did it all come about? how did it all start?
“You never get no back talk from no corpse”
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#71 2003-12-24 4:21 pm
- soulcrusher
- Banned
- From: Princetown, Jamaica
- Registered: 2000-10-21
- Posts: 3816
Re: There Is No God.
Steven Hawking even said that there must have been some outside starting force to "ignite" the whole process of creation.
"VERY HOT 20-year-olds in GAY ACTION FILMED BY BIG BREASTED CALIFORNIA BABE"
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#72 2003-12-24 4:30 pm
- Jaligard
- Sarcasm is just one service I offer.
- Registered: 2001-02-03
- Posts: 5199
Re: There Is No God.
Hey, believe what you want to believe. I don't want to do another thread on this one right now, I haven't the energy.
I don't believe in this god for a number of reasons (three of which I presented).
George Bush: "If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator."
George Bush: "One of the hardest parts of my job is to try to connect Iraq to the war on terror."
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#73 2003-12-24 4:44 pm
Re: There Is No God.
He seems every bit the petty, vengeful gods that the Romans, Greeks and everybody else worshipped (except without the sex and intrigue).
On the contrary, it is us as humans who have spit in the face of His gift of Salvation. A petty God would not sacrifice His son to offer the beings who despised Him salvation. That's about as loving and caring as you can get.
He's not godly enough for me. If he turns out to be real, and it turns out that he made the Universe as described in Genesis, I'm going to be disappointed. That's how a six-year old would make a universe. What we see
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#74 2003-12-24 5:24 pm
- cocoamix
- Member
- Registered: 2001-03-01
- Posts: 7471
Re: There Is No God.
The stories of biblical creation and the big bang are both theoretical.
One theory was developed by a bunch of guys in the desert a few thousand years ago, and one theory was developed by a bunch of guys in a university or lab a few decades ago.
I personally favor the scientific theories, because I like to think that mankind learned a few things over the course of a millennium or two, but that, again, is debatable.
Jingoism - Extreme and emotional nationalism, or chauvinism, often characterized by an aggressive foreign policy, accompanied by an eagerness to wage war.
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