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#26 2004-01-12 4:42 pm

ShnickyShnack
::: title edited due to Satanic influences :::
From: Rockin' out
Registered: 2001-05-25
Posts: 22237

Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??

I coulda sworn Jews, Christians and Muslims worshipped the same God ...

are you serious!!??

It's not true?

Yes and no.

So what's your problem? The author insulted not just Muhammad, but "Muhammad's God."

I don't get it.?

Statement A: The author made insulting comments about "Muhammad's God"

Statement B: Muslims, Jews and Christians worship the same God

Statement C: The author has made insulting comments about the Christian and Jewish God.


Note: please delete this post.

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#27 2004-01-12 4:52 pm

Elahrairah
Member
From: In front of his macbook.
Registered: 2003-02-08
Posts: 563

Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??



Statement A: The author made insulting comments about "Muhammad's God"

Statement B: Muslims, Jews and Christians worship the same God

Statement C: The author has made insulting comments about the Christian and Jewish God.

It's you're Statement B that makes the argument invalid. It's not only not necessarily true, but it also hinges entirely on what you mean by "the same God".

Let me put it this way... do you believe that both Baptists and the Jonestown Cult worship "the same Christ"?


Good judgement comes from experience,
And experience comes from bad judgement.

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#28 2004-01-12 4:54 pm

JakeTheTall
Cargo Cultist
From: In Permanent Opposition
Registered: 2003-03-13
Posts: 10130

Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??

... will conclude that Muhammad was a pirate, not a prophet,

pirate


Jesus said to the servants, "Fill the jars with water"; so they filled them to the brim.  Then he told them, "Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet."  They did so, and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew.

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#29 2004-01-12 4:59 pm

Phydeaux
Watching, Listening and Waiting
From: Hopin You'll Turn Out Th'Light
Registered: 2001-05-11
Posts: 29999
Website

Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??

Muslims have "99 beautiful names" for Allah, and each one describes his characteristics. "Love" is absent from this list of names. The Qur'an describes him in terms of judgment than by grace, and in terms of power rather than mercy.

This isn't to say that Allah doesn't love. He loves those who do good (good as in, doing good deeds, adhering to the required daily practices of the Five Pillars and so forth), but Allah doesn't love the person whose bad deeds outweigh the good things he/she/it has done.

The attribute of love is a huge difference between Allah and the God of Christianity. That's why it is incorrect to believe that Allah and God are the same deity but are simply known by two different names, depending on whether you're sitting in a mosque or a church. But this isn't like calling a couch by alternative names such as divan, sofa, davenport, or loveseat. Allah of the Qur'an only loves those he deems to be good; the God of the Bible loves all of humanity, none of whom are basically good.

George Houssney wrote in the book What Is Allah Like? that humans can never know Allah. They may know about him, but they do not have personal, experiential knowledge of him. Muslims reject the Christian concept that God is immanent (His presence and activity are within the world and human nature, and that the characteristics of God can be seen in the world around us). Muslims are also offended by the Christian concept that humans can establish a personal relationship with God.

There's also the concept of the Trinity. Muslims believe in the unity of Allah, meaning that he could have no son nor partner. Muslims sometimes makes the mistake in calling Christians evil due to the misunderstanding of so-called polytheism. There is no Arabic word for "threefold" so it is understandable that a language barrier creates a difficulty in understanding the Trinity. But it stretches out a little more than just a linguistic hurdle; the Qur'an specifically attacks the concept stating "They are unbelievers who say, 'God is the Third of Three.' No god is there but one God."

[pants]


Spirit was crushed; now is fading, But I want to help make things right.
Because I can see and I can feel, and you can see and you can feel
So why don't we both either stand up and fight
Or at least together we'll call it a night.

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#30 2004-01-12 5:01 pm

OttoMan!
Member
From: LSU - National Champions! Scre
Registered: 2001-07-20
Posts: 172

Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??

I coulda sworn Jews, Christians and Muslims worshipped the same God ...

are you serious!!??

It's not true?

Yes and no.

So what's your problem? The author insulted not just Muhammad, but "Muhammad's God."

I don't get it.?

Statement A: The author made insulting comments about "Muhammad's God"

Statement B: Muslims, Jews and Christians worship the same God

Statement C: The author has made insulting comments about the Christian and Jewish God.

Sorry, but they are not the same God. Jews and Christian basically have the same God but have different beliefs in Christ. Muslims have Alah(spelling?), a different god.

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#31 2004-01-12 5:01 pm

ShnickyShnack
::: title edited due to Satanic influences :::
From: Rockin' out
Registered: 2001-05-25
Posts: 22237

Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??



Statement A: The author made insulting comments about "Muhammad's God"

Statement B: Muslims, Jews and Christians worship the same God

Statement C: The author has made insulting comments about the Christian and Jewish God.

It's you're Statement B that makes the argument invalid. It's not only not necessarily true, but it also hinges entirely on what you mean by "the same God".

Let me put it this way... do you believe that both Baptists and the Jonestown Cult worship "the same Christ"?

Jonestown?? I have no idea what those crazy smurfs worshipped (Jim Jones, maybe?)

Both Islam and Christianity originated in Judaism. They share many holy texts and prophets (Islam recognizes Christ as a prophet). It seems they have an awful lot in common.


Note: please delete this post.

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#32 2004-01-12 5:01 pm

Phydeaux
Watching, Listening and Waiting
From: Hopin You'll Turn Out Th'Light
Registered: 2001-05-11
Posts: 29999
Website

Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??

Thrica, Ottoman!, take a peek up. ^^


Spirit was crushed; now is fading, But I want to help make things right.
Because I can see and I can feel, and you can see and you can feel
So why don't we both either stand up and fight
Or at least together we'll call it a night.

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#33 2004-01-12 5:03 pm

Phydeaux
Watching, Listening and Waiting
From: Hopin You'll Turn Out Th'Light
Registered: 2001-05-11
Posts: 29999
Website

Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??


Both Islam and Christianity originated in Judaism. They share many holy texts and prophets (Islam recognizes Christ as a prophet). It seems they have an awful lot in common.

About as much in common as a tank and Ford Fiesta.

After all, both have engines in them.


Spirit was crushed; now is fading, But I want to help make things right.
Because I can see and I can feel, and you can see and you can feel
So why don't we both either stand up and fight
Or at least together we'll call it a night.

Offline

 

#34 2004-01-12 5:07 pm

Phydeaux
Watching, Listening and Waiting
From: Hopin You'll Turn Out Th'Light
Registered: 2001-05-11
Posts: 29999
Website

Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??

(Islam recognizes Christ as a prophet). It seems they have an awful lot in common.

That's really one of the big things... Christ is the cornerstone of the new Covenant between God and mankind. Muslims don't recognize Christ as the Son, thus causing a grand divide between the two religions, scripturally speaking.

It's sort of like saying Wiccans and Christian Scientologists are related because they both allow for the belief that God is a formless supernatural force, there to serve it's members.


Spirit was crushed; now is fading, But I want to help make things right.
Because I can see and I can feel, and you can see and you can feel
So why don't we both either stand up and fight
Or at least together we'll call it a night.

Offline

 

#35 2004-01-12 5:08 pm

ShnickyShnack
::: title edited due to Satanic influences :::
From: Rockin' out
Registered: 2001-05-25
Posts: 22237

Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??

Yet all three religions use the Old Testament.

confused


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#36 2004-01-12 5:10 pm

Elahrairah
Member
From: In front of his macbook.
Registered: 2003-02-08
Posts: 563

Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??



Jonestown?? I have no idea what those crazy booboo worshipped (Jim Jones, maybe?)

Both Islam and Christianity originated in Judaism. They share many holy texts and prophets (Islam recognizes Christ as a prophet). It seems they have an awful lot in common.

You don't know the People's Temple? Back in the seventies, about 1000 believers followed their prophet Jones to Jonestown, down in South America.  They worshipped Christ... it just happened to be that 'Christ' told them to worship Jones as well... an mindset that eventually led to their mass suicide with cyanide-lace Kool-Aid. They even forced it down the mouths of their kids.

I'm definitely not comparing Islam or Christianity to a cult, but we need to keep in mind that many people don't like saying that they worship the same God. The two religions diverge very early and very importantly on the nature and will of God. Just because I disagree with the Quran doesn't mean I reject Jehovah.


Good judgement comes from experience,
And experience comes from bad judgement.

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#37 2004-01-12 5:10 pm

everlong554
Member
Registered: 2003-12-24
Posts: 6865

Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??



Statement A: The author made insulting comments about "Muhammad's God"

Statement B: Muslims, Jews and Christians worship the same God

Statement C: The author has made insulting comments about the Christian and Jewish God.

It's you're Statement B that makes the argument invalid. It's not only not necessarily true, but it also hinges entirely on what you mean by "the same God".

Let me put it this way... do you believe that both Baptists and the Jonestown Cult worship "the same Christ"?

Jonestown?? I have no idea what those crazy booboo worshipped (Jim Jones, maybe?)

Both Islam and Christianity originated in Judaism. They share many holy texts and prophets (Islam recognizes Christ as a prophet). It seems they have an awful lot in common.

They do have much in common (which is why I say yes), but Islam is a refutation of both christianity and Judaism (which is why I say no).
The kuran states that the original prophets were all muslims and preached muslim teachings, but that the jews and christians twisted all the sayings and tales for which they are condemned as hypocrites and pigs . i.e. the kuran mentions Jesus but says that he wasn't crucified, that somene else was crucified in his place.


"YOU DISGUST ME!!!!"

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#38 2004-01-12 5:12 pm

Phydeaux
Watching, Listening and Waiting
From: Hopin You'll Turn Out Th'Light
Registered: 2001-05-11
Posts: 29999
Website

Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??

Yet all three religions use the Old Testament.

confused

...sort of like Mac OSX, FreeBSD and Linux all have the same underpinnings, but are all distinctly different?


Spirit was crushed; now is fading, But I want to help make things right.
Because I can see and I can feel, and you can see and you can feel
So why don't we both either stand up and fight
Or at least together we'll call it a night.

Offline

 

#39 2004-01-12 5:15 pm

Elahrairah
Member
From: In front of his macbook.
Registered: 2003-02-08
Posts: 563

Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??

Yet all three religions use the Old Testament.

confused

...sort of like Mac OSX, FreeBSD and Linux all have the same underpinnings, but are all distinctly different?

eek  eek
Phydeaux, you are either a raving mad idiot or an unparalled genius.
I'm copying that one down to my quote file...


Good judgement comes from experience,
And experience comes from bad judgement.

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#40 2004-01-12 5:17 pm

Phydeaux
Watching, Listening and Waiting
From: Hopin You'll Turn Out Th'Light
Registered: 2001-05-11
Posts: 29999
Website

Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??


Phydeaux, you are either a raving mad idiot or an unparalled genius.

Sort of like Tito?


Spirit was crushed; now is fading, But I want to help make things right.
Because I can see and I can feel, and you can see and you can feel
So why don't we both either stand up and fight
Or at least together we'll call it a night.

Offline

 

#41 2004-01-12 5:19 pm

everlong554
Member
Registered: 2003-12-24
Posts: 6865

Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??

Yet all three religions use the Old Testament.

confused

...sort of like Mac OSX, FreeBSD and Linux all have the same underpinnings, but are all distinctly different?

Good analogy....


"YOU DISGUST ME!!!!"

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#42 2004-01-12 5:21 pm

jaxbrokenheart
Member
From: St. Louis
Registered: 2003-02-13
Posts: 4586

Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??


Both Islam and Christianity originated in Judaism. They share many holy texts and prophets (Islam recognizes Christ as a prophet). It seems they have an awful lot in common.

Of course they share an awful lot in common.  Mohammed came from Mecca, which was a trading port.  Being a trading port, many people with many different beliefs would be coming through it.  If you lived in Mecca, you'd be exposed to most of the current religions of that day.  Mohammed thought that all the religions were basically worshipping the same god.  So, he mixed these religions to form Islam.  Among others, he mixed: Christianity, Judaism, local folk, Zoroastrianism, and others including some from the Romans, Greeks, and the Egyptians.
  So, if he mixed much of Christianity, Judaism, etc.  there will be similarities, but not be exactly the same as any of them, especially the polytheistic religions of the Romans, Greeks, and the Persians (Zoroastrianism).

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#43 2004-01-12 5:25 pm

Elahrairah
Member
From: In front of his macbook.
Registered: 2003-02-08
Posts: 563

Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??

Phydeaux - Stop it!! Stop it!! lol

Everlong - I agree with you completely so far. Yes, the religions have a great deal of common ground, and yes they can be friendlier to eachother because of it.

It's ironic, I suppose, that the common ground also gives cause for some dispute. What I mean to say is that both Muslims and Christians generally look back at what they share with the Jews and feel that they have moved onward while the Jews have corrupted the original intentions of the One God. Jews see both Muslims and Christians as major departures from the truth that was given.


Good judgement comes from experience,
And experience comes from bad judgement.

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#44 2004-01-12 5:25 pm

ShnickyShnack
::: title edited due to Satanic influences :::
From: Rockin' out
Registered: 2001-05-25
Posts: 22237

Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??

Yet all three religions use the Old Testament.

confused

...sort of like Mac OSX, FreeBSD and Linux all have the same underpinnings, but are all distinctly different?

So, to use your bizarre operating system analogy, the Old Testament has hidden code that distinguishes between different Gods, and not just one?


Note: please delete this post.

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#45 2004-01-12 5:28 pm

Phydeaux
Watching, Listening and Waiting
From: Hopin You'll Turn Out Th'Light
Registered: 2001-05-11
Posts: 29999
Website

Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??

Yet all three religions use the Old Testament.

confused

...sort of like Mac OSX, FreeBSD and Linux all have the same underpinnings, but are all distinctly different?

So, to use your bizarre operating system analogy, the Old Testament has hidden code that distinguishes between different Gods, and not just one?

I'd say it's a step further, and not something in the code.

The God of each individual religion is the actual computer itself, executing the programs.

For hilarity's sake, we'll just refer to them as Quadra, Tandy and Wang.

The hole in the analogy is, however, that a computer can't write it's own and then run an Operating System. No matter how powerful or brilliantly designed it is.

Thus going so far as our inability as human beings to grasp the concepts of God in order to emulate Him.

But nothing is hidden or cryptic in the OT, IMHO.


Spirit was crushed; now is fading, But I want to help make things right.
Because I can see and I can feel, and you can see and you can feel
So why don't we both either stand up and fight
Or at least together we'll call it a night.

Offline

 

#46 2004-01-12 5:41 pm

ShnickyShnack
::: title edited due to Satanic influences :::
From: Rockin' out
Registered: 2001-05-25
Posts: 22237

Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??

confused

You've lost me with your computer analogies.

Let me just ask this:

When a Muslim and a Christian reads the Old Testament, and the text refers to the supreme being who created the universe, does it refer to several different deities, or just the one?


Note: please delete this post.

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#47 2004-01-12 5:41 pm

jaxbrokenheart
Member
From: St. Louis
Registered: 2003-02-13
Posts: 4586

Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??


Yes, the religions have a great deal of common ground, and yes they can be friendlier to eachother because of it.

They never will.  The reason is because they are too similar.  Both Christianity and Islam is...
1. Monotheistic - One God
But, the Moslems and Christians worship completely different Gods.
2. Exclusivistic - Their religion is the ONLY way.
They can't believe in both religions at once.
3. Revelatory - Their authority is an inspired book from their God.
But, the Bible was written over a span of 2,000+ years by 40-44 different human authors each writing a consistent message of God.
The Koran was written by one man, Mohammed.  It was told to him by the Angel Gabriel, sent by Allah.  He saw this vision on Mt. Hira.

Christians and Islams have been clashing since 622AD, when Islam was born.

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#48 2004-01-12 5:42 pm

Elahrairah
Member
From: In front of his macbook.
Registered: 2003-02-08
Posts: 563

Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??


But nothing is hidden or cryptic in the OT, IMHO.

bang

Then please help me understand Isaiah!!!

But, to get even MORE nitpicky, we need to remember that we are being slightly biased by saying Old Testament. The Old Testament is NOT the Torah, and it is NOT the Hadith.  My point is just that the three religions don't necessarily go as far as sharing the same texts, except possibly in the case of the Pentateauch between christianity and judaism.


Good judgement comes from experience,
And experience comes from bad judgement.

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#49 2004-01-12 5:42 pm

everlong554
Member
Registered: 2003-12-24
Posts: 6865

Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??

Yet all three religions use the Old Testament.

confused

...sort of like Mac OSX, FreeBSD and Linux all have the same underpinnings, but are all distinctly different?

Good analogy....

Islam is more like a form of Unix that has similar terms as those in unix but described completely differently and with different functions (in other words Unix in name only). Further this unix would call all previous unixes bastardizations and reject earlier Unix commands as incorrect and false and the creators of the earlier Unixes hypocrites and liars. Also, this unix would not be open source....


"YOU DISGUST ME!!!!"

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#50 2004-01-12 6:04 pm

Some1
The flying moleman.
From: Montréal
Registered: 2003-05-17
Posts: 2789

Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??

Most rational men and women will conclude that Muhammad was a pirate, not a prophet, and that a god who is principally vengeful, forgetful, contradictory, and irrational might not be a god after all.

The Judaio-Christian God is like that too.

1. SOURCE?

2. I'd like to meet this "Judaio" god.

It means Jewish you ignoramus.

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