Forums | MacLife

Now, if you base your judgement of Christianity and Islam only on the quotes I provided, you might well come to the conclusion that Christianity was the terroristic one.

The moral of the story is, If you really want to learn about a faith, don't just scan a few excerpts. Read all about it; not just the texts, but the histories, the philosphies, the literature -- and most of all meet the believers. Talk to them, ask them about their beliefs, their outlook on life.

Here endeth the lesson.

ShnickyShnack: nice copy and paste 

You forgot to add all the love and salvation quotes in the Bible, (love)which are absent from the koran or any of the other books.

I find it interesting that you dislike christians but are fond of muslims. 

You don't get it, I guess.

The point is, it doesn't take much effort to paste a bunch of quotes from a religious text -- particularly one that dates from a brutal period of human history -- to make it seem savage.

I coulda sworn the point was obvious.

so what about you disliking christians?

I dislike Christians??? What the bloody hell are you talking about?

UsC = Us Christians.  OttoMan! is desperately hoping to be screwed by some charitable lady who appreciates his Correct Religious Beliefs.

Sorry, SchnickySchnack, I know you were counting on me to inject occasional intelligence into this thread (Zeus knows no else will) but I just can't bring myself to care six pages after it's already been determined that the website originally being discussed is of little interest.

Now, if you base your judgement of Christianity and Islam only on the quotes I provided, you might well come to the conclusion that Christianity was the terroristic one.

The moral of the story is, If you really want to learn about a faith, don't just scan a few excerpts. Read all about it; not just the texts, but the histories, the philosphies, the literature -- and most of all meet the believers. Talk to them, ask them about their beliefs, their outlook on life.

Here endeth the lesson.

You're telling people to learn about the faiths by reading about them (which I assume means by reading about them ou will learn more about their beliefs), whereas you admit that you know very little about it yourself and haven't read it. But I'm mischaracterizing it for quoting passages that I have read and know about. Interesting .

Your bible quotes sound like you looked up "war" or "blood" and just pasted random stuff in. I bet you don't even know what half of those quotes are referring to and who is doing the killing and why. (Half of your quotes appear to be god killing and bringing forth natural disasters.)
I would be the first to argue that the old testament especially does contain a lot of violence and in some cases (ie Joshua and the Battle of Jericho or David treatment of Uriah for example) the prophets or heroes come across badly. No doubt. (i'm agnostic)
Jesus comes across much better. Whether you believe he is the son of god or not its hard to argue that he is not saintly. He preaches non violence he doesn't carry a sword. He becomes a martyr and he preaches brotherhood. If christians were to follow his example they would be advocating peace.
The kuran advocates nothing but war. Really. The hadiths get very specific about what the kuran and mohammad are all about and it boils down to submit or die. The most glorious muslim is the martyr who dies by spreading islam. Not defensively but offensively. Spreading islam means going into other peoples territory and killing them and enslaving them and making them submit and then paying the tax or dying. It says so over and over and over and over. The hadiths say that that is what muslims must do. It admonishes muslims who don't want to fight and says that they will burn in hell along with the jews and nonbelievers.
And the hadiths (if they are to be believed, and which the majority of muslims seem to - though there is some battles over certain hadiths authenticity) portray THE prophet of islam as a sadistic villain. He marries his sons wife, marries a 6 year old girl, has his critics assassinated, renounces Allah (even though he isn't called allah at that point - see satanic verses), cheats his worshippers out of booty, tells his followers its their duty to kill non believers who's only crime is they don't believe, robs from caravans who are unarmed, gloats when he kills them, lines up prisoners and has their heads chopped off in front of their families then sells them into slavery, breaks treaties and says this is lawful etc etc. etc. And he's the holiest muslim.  It would be like having a religion where the prophet was geghis khan and then saying that the religion is all about peace.
The hadiths lay out a legitimate Islam as it appears to be the islam that most islamic countries folllow. They pray the way the kuran and the hadiths tell them, they set up laws based on the kuran and hadiths. Whenever sharia law is setup its using the hadiths and the kuran. They view infidels and nonbelievers as they do in the kuran and hadiths (infidels being non muslim). You can still see it today in the modern middle east. Christians and Jews are second class citizens at best and in many muslim countries christians cannot own bibles, are persecuted or exist in their own state. Women are treated exactly as layed out in the kuran. The prophet even tells his followers not to befriend jews or christians. If they do they are as bad as the jew or christian and will burn. Islam is the religion and the political realm combined.
Historically its accurate as as soon as Mohammad died the Islamic empire spread from Mecca to the rest of the world  as his sucessors began waging war against other countries and spreading the empire, attacking its neighbors and forcing conversions on the pain of the sword (and getting the spoils). As it was in the holy books so it was in the history and so it is now today. Islam has not changed one iota. Critics of islam are murdered or have death threats against them merely for questioning the hadiths or the kuran. If someone makes a joke about the prophet there are riots in the streets and people are murdered, today in modern times.
So the holy books describe behaviour, the prophet of the religion endorses the behavior and demands that his followers act a certain way and history plays out the behavior. You say to read the histories and the writings. I'd reccomend you do the same.
Having someone say "Islam is a religion of peace" is hard to reconcile when the hadiths and history say otherwise.

so um, your judgment is that the muslims are inherently more violent than christians, and therefore are worthy of your fear and hatred?

Judaism, Islam and Christianity are ALL Abrahamic religions.  Therefore, in an historical sense, they all refer to the same "God" ('el, 'elohim, Jehovah, `ilah, Allah, YHWH, Yahweh... the list is endless isn't it?)

Correct me if I missed it but I saw no reference in the 7 pages of this thread to Abraham.  One big early difference between the two is Christianity and Islam disagree on which son of Abraham's was sacrificed.  Ishmael is their boy.

"I AM THAT I AM" is what God told Moses his name was. 

Even ole Dubya agrees! (to the disdain of his fundamentalist base)

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/artic … E_ID=35787

Flying_Meat"]so um, your judgment is that the muslims are inherently more violent than christians, and therefore are worthy of your fear and hatred?

I never said that.... I was talking about the hadiths, the koran and the prophet who all say exactly what was quoted (and more).
I don't hate anyone as an individual.
but I do hate the ideology absolutely.

Except you're posting selected segments, not the whole thing, and all of them translations.

Anyway, you're hating them, so hate away. Have fun with that. I'm sure Jesus would approve!

Flying_Meat"]so um, your judgment is that the muslims are inherently more violent than christians, and therefore are worthy of your fear and hatred?

I never said that.... I was talking about the hadiths, the koran and the prophet who all say exactly what was quoted (and more).
I don't hate anyone as an individual.
but I do hate the ideology absolutely.

Except you're posting selected segments, not the whole thing, and all of them translations.

Anyway, you're hating them, so hate away. Have fun with that. I'm sure Jesus would approve!

You want me to post the entire hadiths?
There are many translations, and many hadiths and they all tell the same story. If anyone hates though, its Islam. The koran and hadiths have a jew/christian problem. You will not see more antisemitic writing unless you go to mein kampf. Islam cannot, by definition play well with others. By definition it breeds killers. The virtues set forth are not love thy neighbor but kill thy neighbor sell his people into slavery and take the booty and make them submit. This booty is then used to goad more people to wage an even larger jihad till the entire world is Islamic. That is the concept of Dar al harb and Dar al Islam. The koran tells its followers not to have friends who are jews or christians or become one of them (and burn) and that it's lawful to break treaties with anyone to spread islam and not to stop fighting till the whole world is islamic and then there will be peace. All you have to do is read the hadiths and you'll know what I'm referring to.

If anyone hates, it's you, by your own admission.

Hate needs no excuse, so why are you bothering? Unless some part of your conscience is crying out against hatred?

If I qouted Mein Kampf and said I hated the ideology would I be a hater?
If nazis nowadays said that naziism was an ideology of peace and I went to the source and quoted Hitler and his Mein Kampf  to show in fact that Nazism was anything but peaceful and I quoted all the instances where
Hitler said that the Jews should be exterminated would I be a hater?
The koran and hadiths and the prophets words are the belief structure of Islam. That is what the religion is about.

The fact is you can't back up your argument because you are clueless (self admitted) to what the kuran and hadiths teach.

Judaism, Islam and Christianity are ALL Abrahamic religions.  Therefore, in an historical sense, they all refer to the same "God" ('el, 'elohim, Jehovah, `ilah, Allah, YHWH, Yahweh... the list is endless isn't it?)

Correct me if I missed it but I saw no reference in the 7 pages of this thread to Abraham.  One big early difference between the two is Christianity and Islam disagree on which son of Abraham's was sacrificed.  Ishmael is their boy.

"I AM THAT I AM" is what God told Moses his name was. 

Even ole Dubya agrees! (to the disdain of his fundamentalist base)

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/artic … E_ID=35787

Christianity and Islam also disagree on Jesus being crucified. Islam believes that all the Jewish  prophets were islamic and that the Jews and christians twisted all the sayings around and thus must be put to death for being hypocrites. (even though Judaism had appeared 2000 years earlier and bibles had long been in place. Jesus had already been killed 600 years before Islam was formed). When mohammad first started out the koran says he learned some stories from Jewish scribes. He then declared himself a prophet. He went to the jews and said he was their prophet and they must follow him. But they laugh at him and say he's crazy because he gets all the stories wrong. This incenses the prophet and the second half of the koran is how he gets revenge on all the jews for rejecting him. So there are bible stories, but because the prophet was not a very good scholar they are not correct. Now mixed along with this is a ton of paganism. the prophet worships a rock. The original Allah was a meccan god and in fact the prophet doesn't originally call him that (nor is he called Yahweh). Through the course of the koran and hadiths he incorporates all the meccan gods into one god. So he worships a stone, worships 100 meccan gods as one, and says that his god is the same Yahweh in the bible but the jews and christians twisted the teachings around so must burn.
It's not the same god.

I love how Shnicky ignored this post completely.

Also, who ever said they hated muslims? I do not recall anyone saying such stupidity. Why the hell do you have to end up insulting other people for having a differnent opinion then you do? It shows how mature you are.

Your point has been made a thousand times over. Are you trying to convince us, or yourself?

everlong wrote:
Christianity and Islam also disagree on Jesus being crucified.

Yes, but do you NOT AGREE with the fact that they are all three Abrahamic religions?  This is the basis of the same God argument.  Agreeing with this fact in way diminishes the fact that all three religions consider the other two as completely false and therefore corrupt.

The question really is not if they all three have the SAME God, but -- as they all base their religion on a holy book being FROM this God (and obviously all three books are different) then, of course, the other two books are the source of the corruption.

Therefore the real question is: the Qu'aran speaks ABOUT God but is it FROM God?

All other arguments are moot.

Well, I suppose I'm looking at my post in a reality vs. perception manner.  The reality is  Abraham  --  an historical connection that I don't see how anyone can argue; the perception viewpoint is the source, the written material, and the belief of each religion that their own book is divine and none other can be.