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#26 2004-12-09 9:33 pm

Tetrachloride
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Registered: 2001-01-29
Posts: 7150

Re: Endangered species evicted from highrise

Facts first, if you have them, resedit.   Your rationale is a sign of rationalizing, a mental disease.

Name one incident of a hawk attacking a human.

EDIT: I see Kirk mentioning a close encounter with a hawk with no damage done.

We need every raptor we can get.

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#27 2004-12-09 9:38 pm

Farmerkev
Official Dementor
Moderator
Registered: 2003-01-03
Posts: 18616

Re: Endangered species evicted from highrise

As long as there were no eggs or chicks, it was legal to rip the nest out.
It will go elsewhere and rebuild once it figures out that nesting site is no longer viable.
It's a bird people.


Do your part to combat global warming.
Eat a cow.

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#28 2004-12-09 10:41 pm

resedit
Chicken Little
Royal Wombat
From: /dev/null
Registered: 1999-11-01
Posts: 50393
Website

Re: Endangered species evicted from highrise

Facts first, if you have them, resedit.

It is no secret that raptors will attack people.
It is rare but it happens.

Red tailed specifically? No, I don't know of a case - that would be highly unusual. However, it is also highly unusual for such a bird to nest so near a bunch of people.

I've had hawks nest near places I lived - in the Bay Area - and undoubtedly here in Redding, too - but never like this bird. It is a wild animal that is comfortable with people, and that does increase the chances of a conflict, which would be bad for the bird as well as bad for the people.

As has been pointed out, there is no harm done - the bird will find another place to nest and continue to raise its young.

This may even be better for the young it raises, raising them so close to people could make the young too accepting of people as well. Animals are better off keeping their distance from us.


In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor

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#29 2004-12-09 10:50 pm

Tetrachloride
❖ ❖ ❖
Registered: 2001-01-29
Posts: 7150

Re: Endangered species evicted from highrise

No, I don't know of a case - that would be highly unusual. However, it is also highly unusual for such a bird to nest so near a bunch of people.

First , you don't have an actual fact.  Second, it's not so unusual as mentioned about Chicago and in Gozer's post below.


As has been pointed out, there is no harm done - the bird will find another place to nest and continue to raise its young.

Third, no harm done ?  The hawk wasn't causing harm.  We invaded its home.  Sort of like Iraq.

Animals are better off keeping their distance from us.

Fourth, animals are better off when humans keep their distance.   Take some responsibility.

You're not taking care of the planet that your God gave you.  There are givers and there are takers. You seem to be a taker.

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#30 2004-12-09 10:50 pm

gozer
khuntee
From: kən(t)i = palin
Registered: 2001-09-20
Posts: 5858
Website

Re: Endangered species evicted from highrise

We have raptors in Toronto too -- I guess just about every big city does. From my apartment I can sometimes see them perched on big antennas atop the CIBC building at Yonge & Bloor, sometimes diving for prey. Quite amazing creatures.

A couple of weeks ago I was astonished to see one swooping low over Bloor Street, with a plump pigeon in its claws. I watched, stunned, as it flew out of sight, but no one else seemed to notice. The same sorts of people who didn't think to look up during last year's blackout, I'm guessing.

at the end of november there were 3 gliding over the shoe company at Y&B.

it was about 11am and one of them kept hitting the glass alliance atlantis building.

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#31 2004-12-10 8:48 am

kb5zhh
Large Outsider (native)
From: Baator
Registered: 2002-08-13
Posts: 14066
Website

Re: Endangered species evicted from highrise

Sure. But most of the forum seemed to say it during the recent thread about Target (I think) banning Saly-ann charity Santas from the entrances to their stores. We can't double-check that, o'course, but that's my recollection.

You are free to determine what people come onto your property.  But, assuming mars was correct on the matter, you are not free to screw with certain birds.


http://img.geocaching.com/stats/img.aspx?txt=Let's+go+geocaching&uid=f73587bf-aae0-40ce-aa46-381096d0d2bf&bg=1
It's a paradox of how sharply dull I am.

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#32 2004-12-10 9:04 am

Farmerkev
Official Dementor
Moderator
Registered: 2003-01-03
Posts: 18616

Re: Endangered species evicted from highrise

Sure. But most of the forum seemed to say it during the recent thread about Target (I think) banning Saly-ann charity Santas from the entrances to their stores. We can't double-check that, o'course, but that's my recollection.

You are free to determine what people come onto your property.  But, assuming mars was correct on the matter, you are not free to screw with certain birds.

It is illegal for British sailors to use a matchstick to fornicate a bird.

Edit: I know of no similar restriction on American sailors so Tally is free and clear.


Do your part to combat global warming.
Eat a cow.

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#33 2004-12-10 9:07 am

kb5zhh
Large Outsider (native)
From: Baator
Registered: 2002-08-13
Posts: 14066
Website

Re: Endangered species evicted from highrise

Sure. But most of the forum seemed to say it during the recent thread about Target (I think) banning Saly-ann charity Santas from the entrances to their stores. We can't double-check that, o'course, but that's my recollection.

You are free to determine what people come onto your property.  But, assuming mars was correct on the matter, you are not free to screw with certain birds.

It is illegal for British sailors to use a matchstick to fornicate a bird.

As well it should be.  Change that and who knows what other licentiousness will happen.


http://img.geocaching.com/stats/img.aspx?txt=Let's+go+geocaching&uid=f73587bf-aae0-40ce-aa46-381096d0d2bf&bg=1
It's a paradox of how sharply dull I am.

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#34 2004-12-10 12:23 pm

resedit
Chicken Little
Royal Wombat
From: /dev/null
Registered: 1999-11-01
Posts: 50393
Website

Re: Endangered species evicted from highrise


Fourth, animals are better off when humans keep their distance.   Take some responsibility.

You would have the apartment building cleared so the hawk can raise its young not too close to humans for their own good?

Sorry, I do put people first.
They are my species, and that species is no spotted owl.


In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor

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#35 2004-12-29 9:11 am

Nefarious
Tuning Fork
Moderator
From: 45°22"N 84°57"W
Registered: 2002-09-30
Posts: 7998

Re: Endangered species evicted from highrise

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=367774

Two red-tailed hawks whose temporary eviction from the ledge of a luxury apartment building sparked angry protests were seen roosting in their restored nesting area, the New York Audubon Society said.

Scaffolding that was used to install a new specially designed nest was removed Tuesday, and Pale Male and Lola were spotted sitting in the Manhattan structure at about noon, the organization said on its Web site. They were then seen taking twigs to the nest.

The hawks' original nest, which had been on a 12th-floor window ledge of the building on Fifth Avenue and 74th Street since 1993, was taken down on Dec. 7 after residents of the building complained that it was a health and safety hazard.

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#36 2004-12-29 9:58 am

Mars_Attacks
Agent Mark Larr
From: GA
Registered: 2001-07-27
Posts: 4448

Re: Endangered species evicted from highrise

Great!

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#37 2004-12-29 12:56 pm

charon
doesn't make change
From: DC
Registered: 2003-05-06
Posts: 5328

Re: Endangered species evicted from highrise

No, no, the stock MiniThink response is, "they own the property, they're well within their rights."

It can be both, you know.  People have a right to be jerks.

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#38 2004-12-29 2:09 pm

charon
doesn't make change
From: DC
Registered: 2003-05-06
Posts: 5328

Re: Endangered species evicted from highrise

The problem with trying to force property-owners to take care of endangered species who unexpectedly come upon their land is that you create a perverse incentive.  Endangered species become a burden to land-owners rather than an asset.  For example, there's evidence that the Endangered Species Act has motivated some landowners to prevent endangered species from taking up residence on their land.

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#39 2004-12-29 3:33 pm

locutus_of_borg
Knight of Mars
From: Sparkopolis
Registered: 2002-07-31
Posts: 1499

Re: Endangered species evicted from highrise

No, I don't know of a case - that would be highly unusual. However, it is also highly unusual for such a bird to nest so near a bunch of people.

First , you don't have an actual fact.  Second, it's not so unusual as mentioned about Chicago and in Gozer's post below.


As has been pointed out, there is no harm done - the bird will find another place to nest and continue to raise its young.

Third, no harm done ?  The hawk wasn't causing harm.  We invaded its home.  Sort of like Iraq.

Animals are better off keeping their distance from us.

Fourth, animals are better off when humans keep their distance.   Take some responsibility.

You're not taking care of the planet that your God gave you.  There are givers and there are takers. You seem to be a taker.

God damn bleeding heart...  j/k wink

The birds will be fine. They have already begun to take up residence at a new building. They are just as resilient as we are and just as resourceful.

And yes, they can be very dangerous. I knew some raptor rescue people when I was young and they had a Red Tail, Peregrine, some owls, a Bald Eagle etc. Pissing the birds off (geting too close, intimidating them, looking at them wrong etc.) usually resulted in a trip to the clinic to get stitches. Beautiful creatures, but definately wild animals.

They did have a Red Tail that was their family pet that they rescued as a baby that was intended for release but would never leave. Very tame for a Hawk, but not to strangers. I got it bad once on my right hand. 20 stitches bad. I looked him in the eye too long and he jumped off of his perch and took a swipe at my hand. Damn bird.  lol


And God said "taketh your rifles, all of ye, all but those unto the nation of California, for exempt must their rifles be and the resth are forlorn." So sayth the Lord.

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#40 2004-12-29 3:47 pm

[MA] Flying_Meat
Member
From: Frisco?
Registered: 2001-03-31
Posts: 8515

Re: Endangered species evicted from highrise

the breeze made my neck prickle.

heh. um, it could'a been worse i guess. blush


...and watch out for the flying meat!

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#41 2004-12-29 3:53 pm

[MA] Flying_Meat
Member
From: Frisco?
Registered: 2001-03-31
Posts: 8515

Re: Endangered species evicted from highrise


Fourth, animals are better off when humans keep their distance.   Take some responsibility.

You would have the apartment building cleared so the hawk can raise its young not too close to humans for their own good?

Sorry, I do put people first.
They are my species, and that species is no spotted owl.

people are cheap. just ask the military.


...and watch out for the flying meat!

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#42 2004-12-29 5:35 pm

Alpha Moonbase
Guest

Re: Endangered species evicted from highrise

My undeveloped property is a nature preserve.
I have Screech Owls that raise their young near my residence.
I had a Coopers Hawk come to visit the other weekend.(Pics in Unplugged)
I like it like this.

 

#43 2004-12-31 10:49 pm

Tetrachloride
❖ ❖ ❖
Registered: 2001-01-29
Posts: 7150

Re: Endangered species evicted from highrise

A kestrel (sparrow hawk) that got wet in my wheelbarrow of standing water.   It was exhausted.  A raptor specialist came and got it.

PICTURES, see below.

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#44 2004-12-31 11:02 pm

Tetrachloride
❖ ❖ ❖
Registered: 2001-01-29
Posts: 7150

Re: Endangered species evicted from highrise

SEE BELOW

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#45 2005-01-01 3:16 am

Tetrachloride
❖ ❖ ❖
Registered: 2001-01-29
Posts: 7150

Re: Endangered species evicted from highrise

I had to re-do the image links.

Great Horned Owl ready for release

http://uploads.savefile.com/users/uploads/582975251.jpg

http://uploads.savefile.com/users/uploads/765712253.jpg

This kestrel got wet and tired in a wheelbarrow full of water.  Fortunately, I found it.   2 pictures dry and 1 wet.


http://uploads.savefile.com/users/uploads/264857985.jpg

Kestrel, rear view
http://uploads.savefile.com/users/uploads/479354862.jpg

http://uploads.savefile.com/users/uploads/1008308946.jpg

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#46 2005-01-01 3:20 am

locutus_of_borg
Knight of Mars
From: Sparkopolis
Registered: 2002-07-31
Posts: 1499

Re: Endangered species evicted from highrise

Dude, I missed the pics.  hmm


And God said "taketh your rifles, all of ye, all but those unto the nation of California, for exempt must their rifles be and the resth are forlorn." So sayth the Lord.

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#47 2005-01-01 6:29 pm

Alpha Moonbase
Guest

Re: Endangered species evicted from highrise

Whew what a day, finally home.
While shuttling hundreds of tired, grumpy passangers, I met a raptor rehabilitator. From a place called Beaks in Fernandina Beach, Florida. They're a rehabilitation/research station. Well I got an invitation to the center! big_smile  (Their airport is restricted and I get to use it!)
It's about a 270 mile flight.

I'm flying down in a couple of weeks when I get a day off. I'll take lots of pics and video!.

 

#48 2005-01-01 8:47 pm

ShnickyShnack
::: title edited due to Satanic influences :::
From: Rockin' out
Registered: 2001-05-25
Posts: 22237

Re: Endangered species evicted from highrise

Amazing pics, tetra!

Much nicer than the shots I have of a raptor gorily devouring a sparrow on my mother's skylight last winter ...


Note: please delete this post.

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#49 2005-01-01 8:53 pm

jkahless
Member
From: Right in front of you.
Registered: 2002-01-05
Posts: 10016

Re: Endangered species evicted from highrise

Amazing pics, tetra!

Much nicer than the shots I have of a raptor gorily devouring a sparrow on my mother's skylight last winter ...

PIXPLSTHNXALOT!!1!11!!


http://folding.extremeoverclocking.com/sigs/sigimage.php?u=37350

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#50 2005-01-01 9:01 pm

ShnickyShnack
::: title edited due to Satanic influences :::
From: Rockin' out
Registered: 2001-05-25
Posts: 22237

Re: Endangered species evicted from highrise

Amazing pics, tetra!

Much nicer than the shots I have of a raptor gorily devouring a sparrow on my mother's skylight last winter ...

PIXPLSTHNXALOT!!1!11!!

lol  lol

You host 'em, I'll post 'em.


Note: please delete this post.

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