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#1 2003-01-28 11:16 pm
- NokX
- Member of the Month

- From: Knoxville, TN
- Registered: 2000-07-17
- Posts: 6190
Evidence of an Oil/Money Driven War
i'm interested in hearing what people have to say when their view of this possible war is focused on more power, money, and oil. i want to see some of your evidence that this is the case rather than a just war that is aimed at taking away fear from those that live in it and ridding this world of a man that has means of terrible things.
"Those who would give us a 'living' Constitution are actually giving us a dead Constitution, since such a thing is completely unable to protect us against the encroachments of government power." Kevin Gutzman
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#2 2003-01-28 11:18 pm
- Dragula
- Member
- Registered: 2002-05-17
- Posts: 1291
Re: Evidence of an Oil/Money Driven War
All of the above.
Dead I am the dog, hound of hell you cry. Devil on your back, I can never die...
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#3 2003-01-28 11:19 pm
- bratboy
- attorney-at-law
- Royal Wombat

- From: Austin, Texas
- Registered: 2003-01-19
- Posts: 30562
Re: Evidence of an Oil/Money Driven War
I voted oil.
From national polls I've seen (which really mean nothing) many Americans think so as well. However, many of those who think this war is 'mainly' about oil still think it is justified.
"One thing we've learned is there's a difference between being disappointed and having madmen in authority."
--Paul Krugman
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#4 2003-01-28 11:21 pm
- NokX
- Member of the Month

- From: Knoxville, TN
- Registered: 2000-07-17
- Posts: 6190
Re: Evidence of an Oil/Money Driven War
from the polls i've seen, very few think it is about oil... but they're the ones most heard on TV because they're protesting.
most want to see saddam ousted and think that war in iraq is necessary.
"Those who would give us a 'living' Constitution are actually giving us a dead Constitution, since such a thing is completely unable to protect us against the encroachments of government power." Kevin Gutzman
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#5 2003-01-28 11:22 pm
- Freezer mac
- iPod scroll wheel

- From: next to a big cold lake.
- Registered: 2001-01-06
- Posts: 7367
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#6 2003-01-28 11:24 pm
- NokX
- Member of the Month

- From: Knoxville, TN
- Registered: 2000-07-17
- Posts: 6190
Re: Evidence of an Oil/Money Driven War
oil
see...where's the evidence...
"oil" for me just doesn't cut it.
i don't see where you all think this stuff up.
just like the caller on c-span... "i totally disagree with everything bush said. he just wants oil"
news anchor "is that all you have to say about the address"
caller "yeah, i guess so"
"Those who would give us a 'living' Constitution are actually giving us a dead Constitution, since such a thing is completely unable to protect us against the encroachments of government power." Kevin Gutzman
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#7 2003-01-28 11:24 pm
- jkahless
- Member

- From: Right in front of you.
- Registered: 2002-01-05
- Posts: 9376
Re: Evidence of an Oil/Money Driven War
All of the above.
lucifer, i look into your dark eyes raise my axe for battle
tito
Ignore the studies
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#8 2003-01-28 11:28 pm
- bratboy
- attorney-at-law
- Royal Wombat

- From: Austin, Texas
- Registered: 2003-01-19
- Posts: 30562
Re: Evidence of an Oil/Money Driven War
see...where's the evidence...
"oil" for me just doesn't cut it.
i don't see where you all think this stuff up.
First of all, there has been little evidence presented on the "Iraq as threat" side of the argument. Even if their was such evidence, the preemptive attack that is planned is unprecedented and immoral, in my mind.
Bush's connections with oil are obvious. Cheney's connections to oil are obvious. The stranglehold of big business on Washington is obvious. Think of the opportunity presented by being able to replace the dictatorship of a huge oil producing country with a government hand-picked for democratic and american-friendly rule.
None of this makes any sense?
"One thing we've learned is there's a difference between being disappointed and having madmen in authority."
--Paul Krugman
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#9 2003-01-28 11:29 pm
- Dragula
- Member
- Registered: 2002-05-17
- Posts: 1291
Re: Evidence of an Oil/Money Driven War
from the polls i've seen, very few think it is about oil... but they're the ones most heard on TV because they're protesting.
most want to see saddam ousted and think that war in iraq is necessary.
A necessary "evil" you mean. Bush is right on one point, and it's the only reason that I feel that the removal of Saddam is necessary, Saddam would not hesitate in using a nuke, or giving it to some terrorist group that would use it, as soon as he obtained it.
But face it, there is a lot at stake in Iraq, and oil and U.S. "Interests" are as much apart of it as is the dangers of Saddam obtaining WMD.
Dead I am the dog, hound of hell you cry. Devil on your back, I can never die...
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#10 2003-01-28 11:29 pm
- ShnickyShnack
- Commander of Insurgent Cell "Dreamboat"

- From: Amidst a superiority complex
- Registered: 2001-05-25
- Posts: 40275
Re: Evidence of an Oil/Money Driven War
Evidence?
The only way we can get evidence either way is to pump Dubya full of sodium pentothol and ask him some tough questions.
That's real cute, asking for evidence all over these boards. Only a handful of people at the top know the truth. Oops, they're not answering my questions, I guess you win!
Hey! Give me evidence that Jesus was the son of God. Or no, wait! Prove to me that you're not just a baffling figment of my imagination! G'wan, prove it! What, you can't? Ha! I win!
"Those of us who have looked to the self-interest of lending institutions to protect shareholders’ equity, myself especially, are in a state of shocked disbelief." -- Alan Greenspan
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#11 2003-01-28 11:34 pm
- bratboy
- attorney-at-law
- Royal Wombat

- From: Austin, Texas
- Registered: 2003-01-19
- Posts: 30562
Re: Evidence of an Oil/Money Driven War
Saddam would not hesitate in using a nuke, or giving it to some terrorist group that would use it, as soon as he obtained it.
What makes you say that? An attack by Iraq on either the US or Israel would result in its immediate annihilation. Saddam is not that stupid, nor eager to die.
"One thing we've learned is there's a difference between being disappointed and having madmen in authority."
--Paul Krugman
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#12 2003-01-28 11:47 pm
- Dragula
- Member
- Registered: 2002-05-17
- Posts: 1291
Re: Evidence of an Oil/Money Driven War
Saddam would not hesitate in using a nuke, or giving it to some terrorist group that would use it, as soon as he obtained it.
What makes you say that? An attack by Iraq on either the US or Israel would result in its immediate annihilation. Saddam is not that stupid, nor eager to die.
I'm more worried about a "Chain-Reaction" that could possibly occur. Saddam nukes Israel, Israel returns fire, then what? What happens after that "monster" (nukes) is released on the world?
Why would you even want to wait to see "If" he would use such weapons, or give those weapons to a terrorist organization that would use them?
Dead I am the dog, hound of hell you cry. Devil on your back, I can never die...
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#13 2003-01-28 11:50 pm
- Mustapha Mond
- Up your alley

- Registered: 2001-03-24
- Posts: 6737
- Website
Re: Evidence of an Oil/Money Driven War
I don't particularly support the oil argument, because I don't know if there is any direct evidence to support it. However, by the same standard, there is no evidence to support any of the other reasons we've been given for going to war with Iraq either, including those mentioned in this thread's opening post (taking away fear from those that live in it and ridding this world of a man that has means of terrible things).
Strangely, however, the best argument for oil comes from the fact that none of the other arguments are any good. Once you see all the rest for the horse pucky that it is, you have to ask yourself why we really want to go to war with Iraq, and the only thing of obvious value that Iraq has is oil, so oil therefore becomes a plausible reason. Perhaps if Bush presents some decent evidence to support all his claims of al'Qaida links and WMDs this will change, but until then oil definitely seems more likely than anything else. And I can't think of any reason that we should just blindly trust Bush on his promise that this so-called evidence actually exists. Firstly, this is just a bad practice in general, especially when war is at stake, no matter what administration is in office. Secondly, after the Patriot Act, Poindexter, and watching Ashcroft sing, they've definitely given us reason to think they're up to no good.
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#14 2003-01-28 11:50 pm
- bratboy
- attorney-at-law
- Royal Wombat

- From: Austin, Texas
- Registered: 2003-01-19
- Posts: 30562
Re: Evidence of an Oil/Money Driven War
Why would you even want to wait to see "If" he would use such weapons, or give those weapons to a terrorist organization that would use them?
Because that is how I believe it has to work.
I do see your point about a situation between Iraq and Israel, where Israel might attack Iraq in retaliation full-force and without our consent (which I am more worried about happeing because we attack them)...though I still refuse to believe that Iraq poses any threat to the US.
"One thing we've learned is there's a difference between being disappointed and having madmen in authority."
--Paul Krugman
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#15 2003-01-29 12:00 am
- ShnickyShnack
- Commander of Insurgent Cell "Dreamboat"

- From: Amidst a superiority complex
- Registered: 2001-05-25
- Posts: 40275
Re: Evidence of an Oil/Money Driven War
The head of the CIA, in testimony to congress last year, said Saddam is far more likely to use WMD if he is attacked than if he is left alone. In fact, he all but guaranteed that Saddam would use everything he has once American troops cross the border.
Just something to think about.
"Those of us who have looked to the self-interest of lending institutions to protect shareholders’ equity, myself especially, are in a state of shocked disbelief." -- Alan Greenspan
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#16 2003-01-29 12:04 am
- Dragula
- Member
- Registered: 2002-05-17
- Posts: 1291
Re: Evidence of an Oil/Money Driven War
Why would you even want to wait to see "If" he would use such weapons, or give those weapons to a terrorist organization that would use them?
Because that is how I believe it has to work.
I do see your point about a situation between Iraq and Israel, where Israel might attack Iraq in retaliation full-force and without our consent (which I am more worried about happeing because we attack them)...though I still refuse to believe that Iraq poses any threat to the US.
I agree, Iraq isn't much of a threat to the U.S. at this point in time. But I'm not willing to bet my life or anyone else's life on the presumption that Saddam would not use a nuclear weapon on some country, namely Israel, if he obtained one. He reminds me too much of Stalin.
And yes, that can be turned around the other way, but the cost of your "wait and see" stance could be a few million lives verses risk a few thousand now. Either way it still sucks, war is never a good thing.
Dead I am the dog, hound of hell you cry. Devil on your back, I can never die...
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#17 2003-01-29 6:54 am
- macul
- Member
- From: Jacksonville, Florida, U.S.A.
- Registered: 2001-09-19
- Posts: 1910
Re: Evidence of an Oil/Money Driven War
My personal opinion (because we can't really present facts) is that it is about both. I do believe that removing Hussein is the primary motive and securing the oil is important as well.
If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's free.
--P.J. O'Rourke
A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money.
--G. Gordon Liddy
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#19 2003-01-29 8:53 am
- Mustapha Mond
- Up your alley

- Registered: 2001-03-24
- Posts: 6737
- Website
Re: Evidence of an Oil/Money Driven War
Israel has the nuke and they have the US, and it's no secret that anyone who even fires a missile at Israel is going to get a whoopin from one side or the other. So why is Saddam the only person in the world -- of all the people who have or are trying to get the nuke -- not afraid of mutually assured destruction, or, as it would be in this case, suicude?
It was one thing when it was us against the USSR: between the two countries there was the combined power to wipe out everybody, so at least we knew that they were gone just as assuredly as we were. But Saddam can't even get that much satisfaction. The best he could do is get a small piece of Israel before being vaporized himself.
Or maybe he'd give a terrorist group a nuke to sneak into the US (ignore for a minute that Pakistan -- the first place bin Laden was running off to, a place full of Taliban sympathizers, where the people despised the US during the war in Afghanistan -- already has the nuke, etc.) and then maybe he could get a small piece of Manhattan, before we found out it was him and turned Iraq into glass, or found out it was someone else and turned Iraq into glass for good measure.
Hardly seems worth it.
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#20 2003-01-29 10:11 am
- Tallgeese
- Arugula-eating Elitist

- From: Fake America
- Registered: 2000-10-17
- Posts: 30612
Re: Evidence of an Oil/Money Driven War
I voted "other." While oil and power do play a part in this, I don't think they're the main reasons. Bush believes Saddam Hussein is a horrible despot (which he is) that he oppresses and murders his own people (he does) and that everyone would be better off without him (they would). However, this would still be an unprovoked war of aggression on our part, Bush is kidding himself if he honestly thinks that the Iraqi people will welcome us with open arms as liberators after we conduct yet another great Air Force war with massive bombings, civilian casualties, and U.S. occupation afterwards. Saddam is evil, yes, but the American military is not the best way to help his oppressed people.
QUESTION: What did Iraqi have to do with that?
BUSH: What did Iraq have to do with what?
QUESTION: The attacks upon the World Trade Center.
BUSH: Nothing
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#21 2003-01-29 10:22 am
Re: Evidence of an Oil/Money Driven War
I have to agree with Tallgeese. I think the motivation includes oil, but in in the direct he has oil so we must topple him way. It is more in the vein of regional stability. Saddam has invaded his neighbors in the past, and he would do it again. Containment has failed, because the other world powers have continued to deal with him, and he has found numerous ways to circumvent the food-for-oil agreements that were made to keep the people from starving. I am not sure about the immediacy or need for a military invasion, but something has to be done about Saddam , because while he may not be crazy enough to use weapons on the US , he has the balls to give technology and weapons to others that will.
Keep On Smoothin'
Schlomo
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#22 2003-01-29 10:38 am
- The New Guy
- Member

- From: Left of left
- Registered: 2000-10-18
- Posts: 3422
Re: Evidence of an Oil/Money Driven War
Actually, I think the war is about power. The power to invade countries like Syria and Iran and Lybia because of the increase in terrorist attacks that will come from us invading a Muslim country and leaving a country that actually has WMD alone. (North Korea, you dolt.)
People talk about the Muslims wanting Jihad. I think "Born Again" Bush is going on a Jihad of his own. Destroying the infidels and freeing the Holy Land and all that rot.
The car of the future is a train with a bike waiting at the other end.
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