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HeadonaStick wrote:

more or less wrote:

i am not disputing the preferences OR the perceptions, just the objecitve obscurity of it.  i guess i am saying that identity is more imposed by society upon the individual than it is true of the essential individual.

in other words, as you stated, if it was like ancient greece - who would care?

I agree in principle, but I think that these imposed identities dissolve once equality is reached, not the other way around. I see advocating less forced group identity as a goal more than a means.

How long did it take for the Irish to get equality in the US?

HeadonaStick wrote:

XYZ wrote:

ya know, post-modern sociology argues, as you often do XYZ, the gender roles are mostly constructions.

how would that be any less true of then "being homosexual"?

Gender and sexual orientation are not the same thing.

He said they were comparable, not that they were the same thing.

Since when has XYZ ever actually read a post he is responding to well enough not to alienate himself from all directions at once?

NokX wrote:

XYZ wrote:

Sex research has been under a chill since Bush took over. Researchers have to disguise studies because they fear their funding will be pulled.

That's bad, but this is much much worse.

this "research" shouldn't be government funded anyway.  if people care enough about that kinda study donate to the researches with their own money.

That makes too much sense... how day you force logic on the illogical!

StaticAge wrote:

more or less wrote:

ya know, post-modern sociology argues, as you often do XYZ, the gender roles are mostly constructions.

how would that be any less true of then "being homosexual"?

i don't think "homosexuality" makes a lick a sense, either has a thing to empower OR to discriminate against.  ijust don't see how a sexual preference amounts to "being" something other than made up self-definiton or justification.

Agreed. But in the off chance that philosophy or politics may not really matter to the individuals who feel upset because of the label they are convinced they should identify with, withholding counseling specifically from possibly suicidal persons is messed up.

Being discriminated against as part of group would probably make me feel as if I was part of that 'group'....

bratboy wrote:

StaticAge wrote:

more or less wrote:

ya know, post-modern sociology argues, as you often do XYZ, the gender roles are mostly constructions.

how would that be any less true of then "being homosexual"?

i don't think "homosexuality" makes a lick a sense, either has a thing to empower OR to discriminate against.  ijust don't see how a sexual preference amounts to "being" something other than made up self-definiton or justification.

Agreed. But in the off chance that philosophy or politics may not really matter to the individuals who feel upset because of the label they are convinced they should identify with, withholding counseling specifically from possibly suicidal persons is messed up.

Being discriminated against as part of group would probably make me feel as if I was part of that 'group'....

That is basically the point I think more or less was making.

XYZ wrote:

HeadonaStick wrote:

XYZ wrote:

Gender and sexual orientation are not the same thing.

He said they were comparable, not that they were the same thing.

And yet, he's still wrong.

Homosexuality is not a matter of choice, and it's not determined by socialization. If that were true, you wouldn't have homosexuals in societies like Taliban Afghanistan where they were crushed in public with boulders, or in Saudi Arabia where they are beheaded in public. And, you'd have a larger homosexual percentage in countries that appreciate homosexuals.

In reality, the percentage of homosexuals in a population is not determined by social mores.

All true. But then eye color is also not a matter of choice. Why dont we have divisions and separations based on that? Because no one claims eye color as an "identity" in our society. Whether its race, gender, sexuality, whatever, all divisions are imposed and taught by society.

everlong205 wrote:

Im left handed, and damnit, Im being discriminated against!

Stupid sexy Flanders...

Cyberpawz wrote:

How long did it take for the Irish to get equality in the US?

who cares?

bedstuy wrote:

Cyberpawz wrote:

How long did it take for the Irish to get equality in the US?

who cares?

Then why should I care about how long it takes for equality for homosexuals?

robco wrote:

So, instead of learning from the past and not repeating mistakes, we should allow bigotry and discrimination for a set period of time and then grudingly grant equality?

I'm not the one that made a blanket statement upon saying smurf another culture/countries' citizens to integrate into the US successfully.

There is a reason why I asked it, unthankfully bedstuy missed it completely.

(not)

Cyberpawz wrote:

In you don't know learn from the past you are bound to repeat it.

Can someone translate this for me?  What language is it?  Bigdiggeramia?

bedstuy wrote:

Cyberpawz wrote:

In you don't know learn from the past you are bound to repeat it.

Can someone translate this for me?  What language is it?  Bigdiggeramia?

Looks like a dialect of shortbusese to me.

bedstuy wrote:

obtuse wrote:

bedstuy wrote:

Can someone translate this for me?  What language is it?  Bigdiggeramia?

Looks like a dialect of shortbusese to me.

Perhaps.  Then again I haven't a clue about the meaning of life...

"In you it does not know it learns the past where you are connected him you repeat." Is how professor Babelfish translates it. I think it is altogether much clearer.