Forums | MacLife

oatmeal wrote:

bird wrote:

Don't put any live plants in this tank.  Most aquarium plants will not flourish in the tank as you described it.  One notable exception is anacharis sp., which the goldfish will also eat readily.

This stuff?

Yup.

I suspect the murky tank is caused by something in the water. You might want to look into that.

Robert B. wrote:

I suspect the murky tank is caused by something in the water. You might want to look into that.

Easy enough to check that. Put a jar of water from the tap next to the fish tank. If it doesn't get murky, it's not the water; it's something in the tank (and I'm pretty sure it's the ammonia thiiing and the algae eaters).

Orion: your tank is plenty big enough for four fish of that size. If you don't mind throwing some snails out of your tank when they over produce, snails are really nice little tank vacuums for ornaments and sides. Unfortunately, I'm out of snails at the moment. (I killed them during a gravel cleaning.) But I'll have more from the koi pond in late spring.

Speaking of vacuums for gravel, I really don't know, but would a pool vacuum work for a tank your size?  I just use a sump pump and an assortment of colanders when I clean the river rock in the koi ponds and do water exchanges -- three times a year generally, in spring, summer, fall. (My koi ponds are  16 ft. x 16 ft x 20 inches deep.)

Last edited by debbiedowner (2005-02-27 4:07 pm)

debbiedowner wrote:

Speaking of vacuums for gravel, I really don't know, but would a pool vacuum work for a tank your size?  I just use a sump pump and an assortment of colanders when I clean the river rock in the koi ponds and do water exchanges -- three times a year generally, in spring, summer, fall. (My koi ponds are  16 ft. x 16 ft x 20 inches deep.)

A tank vacuum is just a huge plastic tube that attaches to the syphon - you put it in, suck like mad (I get better suction that way - you can submerse the entire syphon, get air out - but really, bet better suction by sucking like mad and just before I get water in mouth - get it out)

Then you put the big tube over the gravel - it lifts the gravel, but because it is a fat pipe, not enough pressure to get the gravel into the syphon - but the food and poop particle do get swept up.

Orion wrote:

This is the algae eaters that I have.  It is a Pleco.

Or, one of (literally) thousands of species of New World suckermouth catfish.  Telling them apart, in most cases, is a major pain.  While a common tankmate to goldfish, I'm not a huge fan.  Produces a lot of waste for negligible benefit, imo.  Oh, and they often get a foot, foot-and-a-half.

I plan to remove all the gravel and clean it under hot water (ours is 175+ degrees) and then syphon out all the crud from the bottom of the tank, replace the stones and add water to fill.  My syphon is supposed to suck up the gravel and separate the junk, and then suck up that junk.  It doesn't have enough suction to do that, however.  I plan to get one that hooks to the sink, so hopefully that will have more power.  This looks similar to what I have.  You shake it up and down underwater to get the syphon going, then the flow of water is supposed to be able to lift the gravel.  It can hardly lift the alge, let alone the gravel.

As far as scalding the gravel, there's no need to.  Draining most of the water, taking out the gravel, cleaning it -- all this is going to stress fish.  And for what benefit?  To kill off whatever biological filter you already have?  Look, you're acting like the crud is the enemy.  It's not, you just have too much of it breaking down into food for unwanted organisms.  Concentrate on giving the gravel a good clean without removing it from the tank via the gravel vac.

So, as far as that, you can try two things.  Firstly, the venturi method is far superior to the manual method.  Go out and buy one, if you have the funds.  You can build one, too, pretty cheap.  In the interim, there's a way to get more suction from the "non-powered" gravel vac, and that's by what res said he used, the good ol' "suck-n-gag".  Getting the bulk of the detritus out, and ditching the ammo-block will help a lot more in the long run than the massive clean.

I think that the lady that I have been talking to at my local store knows what she is talking about, it's just that I don't know enough about fish and tanks to ask the proper questions.  Hopefully after reading more, I will be able to do so.  She is a Certified Veterinary Technologist, so she has had training in proper animal care, but I am not sure how much she has had with fish.  This is a Pet department at my local store, so you have to understand that these people can't know everything there is to know about everything.   Any specialized pet stores are quite a drive away, so I hate to go that far, and rarely have the time.

Your circumstances will dictate to some extent what you can and can't do, but those small specialty pet stores are the lifeblood of the hobby.  I have the former professional's disdain for the superstore pet jockey.  I don't know your young lady at the store, but I do know that selling a fish is a chance to educate a potential owner about that fish's needs and requirements.  But, if you hold to "be skeptical; think for yourself", you'll be fine.

Now, about gravel.  Would I be better off getting the finer gravel like most tanks have, or is the pea gravel I have okay?  It is about 1/2-3/4" in diameter.  I had figured that the coarser gravel would be easier to clean because the dirt wouldn't be as trapped by the finer stones.  Maybe that isn't the proper thinking.

The pea gravel is fine for most aquarium applications.  Cleaning it would be be about the same as the the slightly smaller gravels.  So stick with it, by all means.

Here's what I have done so far...

I got an air pump and two smaller air stones.  I figured that two smaller stones would distribute the air better in this large of a tank than one larger stone.  The pump has dual output.

I am getting a better vac for cleaning the gravel.  These fish like to stir up the gravel with their tails, and when they do, lots of crap floats up.  My vac isn't doing what it is designed to do.

I am going to get one of those food corral things.  It is a ring that hooks to the side of the tank to corral the food so the filter doesn't get ahold of it and suck it to the bottom right away.

I am getting a water test kit to check the level of ammonia and such in my water.

So far, just with the air stones, the water has cleared up quite a bit.  It is slightly murky, but no where near what it was before.  I think that with keeping the gravel cleaner will get rid of most of the problem.  I decided not to go with an undergravel filter, because you have to pull everything out and clean it about every month or so, which seems counterproductive.  Once I get my new vac, I plan to change out less water, but more often.  I currently do about 25% every week, but I plan to do about 10-15% every other day or so.  That should help keep too much waste from building up in the gravel stones.  One thing that I have noticed is that the fish "poo" tends to float to the surface rather than sinking like it used to.  Could that be because of the ammonia?  I never used to see any, but now there is usually a little bit floating on the top at the edges.

I think that my problem was with the algae eaters.  The tank had been really covered by algae on the sides and ornaments.  They cleaned it off in about 2 weeks, and my problem started about a week later.  Either the algae was keeping the water clean, or the algae eaters just put out so much waste in a short amount of time that it overloaded the system.  I originally had brown algae, then that disappeared and was replaced by green algae.  That is when I got the algae eaters.  I had tried scraping the algae off the tank, but it was back in a few days to a week.  I got sick of scraping, so I got the Plecos.  It was more cosmetic reasons than anything.

I had a little time to do research, and what I found suggested the air pump.  I hope to have more time for research this week, but our silo unloader has been acting up lately, requiring several trips up the silo every day.  I am pooped when I get in the house, and don't feel like spending time on the internet.  Does anyone know any good sites to start with?

I just want to give a big thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread.  I now know quite a bit more about raising fish than I did before! 

Kirk wrote:

Adding air via the stones will probably help your tank the most.  It pushes the nitrogen balance over to mostly being nitrates.  Algae is good as long as it doesn't cover the front glass.  The bio-filter that resedit initially suggested will serve that purpose too.

Eww, bad silo problems are a pain.  Do you have a blockage needing repair?  Ten trips sounds like a lot.

The water seems to be clearing, but there is still lots of crud on the bottom under the stones. I crawled under the tank and looked up and there is still lots of stuff stuck between the stones.  Most of that is uneaten food.  The filter I have tends to push the food down to the bottom, and the fish don't seem to want to eat it there.  I have been cutting back on their food supply, and they now seem to be eating more from the bottom.  That is why I want the ring to corral the food from the filter.  My algae was covering everything in the tank.  I figured that it was because of the well water.  Who knows what is all in our system...  We have been drawing from the same well since the 1800's.  I have two large bio wheels in my filter, and they are covered in the bacteria.  I have them spinning fairly slowly, just so that they don't stop.  My filter has two foam/activated charcoal filters, and a basket on each side for other filter material.  I have more activated charcoal in there, but I am looking into other media.

The problem with the silo unloader is that it is 32 years old, and is showing its age.  It was rebuilt about 10-12 years ago, but it still has troubles.  It may be from the time that the one cable snapped and the unloader hit the wall of the silo (it hangs from three cables).  A cat must have jumped off the wall onto the ledge by the controls, hitting the switch to raise it in the process.  The unloader was already at the top for filling,  but it kept going and hit the tripod on the top of the silo.  The cable broke, the silo unloader swung down and the one guide wheel went through the roof.  It hasn't worked right since then.  We are just lucky that the tripod held together enough that the unloader didn't fall 60 feet and break up.  They checked the unloader for level and trueness and replaced the tripod, but it still doesn't track right in the silo.  It keeps hanging up on the sides.  That isn't my problem now, however.  The auger keeps plugging up because the one door leaked and the silage spoiled right by the door.  When the auger comes around to feed the silage into the blower, it pulls up big chunks of dried rotted silage and plugs up.  Most of the time it works fine, but every once in a while it plugs, so I have to climb the chute and unblock it.  It is powered by a 7.5 hp 240V motor, and that puppy draws 60-70 amps easy when it plugs.  It isn't tripping the breaker (50 amp) which kinda worries me.  The thermal reset on the motor keeps tripping instead of the breaker.  Ah, well, it is getting rewired this spring anyway, so it should last till then.  The electrical code no longer allows aluminum wire inside buildings, so we have to rewire our farm because we built a new milkhouse and the grandfather clause no longer applies.  Our utility will pay up to $10,000 to help us do that, so we figured on rewiring everything to bring it up to code.

Yeah, the shear pins broke on the auger again tonight.  Time to call the dealer and see about a new one I think...