Quantcast

Forums | MacLife

You are not logged in.

#1 2005-04-24 1:08 pm

MrJ in OZ
Come and get one in the yarbles.
From: paradise
Registered: 2005-02-04
Posts: 3458

Handcuffing chilren. Good option?

US police handcuff five-year-old girl

Last Modified: 23 Apr 2005
Source: ITN

Police in the US could be facing legal action after they handcuffed a five-year-old girl at a nursery in Florida.

A video camera which happened to be rolling as part of a classroom self-improvement exercise recorded the incident on March 14 at Fairmount Park Elementary School in St Petersburg.

The camera captured images of the girl tearing papers off a bulletin board, climbing on to a table and punching a carer before police were called to the school.

The child then appeared to calm down but three officers approached, pinned her hands behind her back and put cuffs on as she screamed "No!".

Lawyer John Trevena is planning to sue the officers having obtained the tape.

He said it is incomprehensible that the police officers would take such action over a youngster's behaviour.

Just as always the US news throws an interesting curve ball at ya.


Should this girl be hand cuffed? I'm still not sure.
Seems to me a little girl would react as she sees her parents act. I think this is a case of bad parenting. The 21st century doesnt know how to raise children yet in a world of dual parent employment.

If you have seen the video, it's pretty sad how teachers and principals can't do anything nowadays whereby the student distracts all the other students with his/her tantrums.

Last edited by MrJ in OZ (2005-04-24 1:12 pm)


*Fallacy at its zenith kids.* "Who is this "we" you keep talking about? What price have "you" paid for this war? Blah, Blah. Its hardly a "we" proposition."

Offline

 

#2 2005-04-24 1:25 pm

mo' ron
PS3 4 EVA
From: NC, USA
Registered: 2002-10-15
Posts: 14246

Re: Handcuffing chilren. Good option?

I'm pretty sure the cops were doing it to teach a lesson, and they probably weren't trying to be harsh or abusive about it. I don't think they did anything wrong. Kids can be really bad sometimes...


What is the difference between Vista and OSX?
- Microsoft employees are excited about OSX.

Offline

 

#3 2005-04-24 1:53 pm

Steyr AUG
Agent Orange
From: 'Nam
Registered: 2001-08-24
Posts: 27535
Website

Re: Handcuffing chilren. Good option?

Police put hancuffs on every violent suspect for their own safety. Sure the girl was young, but she was also violent.


Just like back in Saigon! Eh, slick?

Offline

 

#4 2005-04-24 2:00 pm

IcarusFountain
Damned Portals!
Royal Wombat
From: Stuck in 1 Infinite Loop
Registered: 2003-12-27
Posts: 6253
Website

Re: Handcuffing chilren. Good option?

I was going to say, you can blame the parents to a certain extent, but why aren't the children to blame for their actions?

Of course, we're talking about a 5-year-old.  At that age, there's still hints of the Terrible Two's, and kids still have a temper that they've yet to really learn to control.  Police intervention was definitely overkill with a 5-year-old, unless she was weilding a knife and had already killed someone.

Offline

 

#5 2005-04-24 2:02 pm

MrJ in OZ
Come and get one in the yarbles.
From: paradise
Registered: 2005-02-04
Posts: 3458

Re: Handcuffing chilren. Good option?

Your right about her own safety, but I heardly think she was really posing a violent threat. Unless ur afraid of thrown papers and getting paper cuts. She could have been violent to the other children but they did a good job of seperating her.

I think her behavior is due to her mothers lack of proper disapline.

You don't see Japanese children acting like that because they act as they see their parents act.  (Sure they got there own casses where a boy cut off the head of another, but he was phychotic.)


*Fallacy at its zenith kids.* "Who is this "we" you keep talking about? What price have "you" paid for this war? Blah, Blah. Its hardly a "we" proposition."

Offline

 

#6 2005-04-24 2:06 pm

iBubba
Displaced
From: central Iowa
Registered: 2000-10-06
Posts: 7109

Re: Handcuffing chilren. Good option?

She needs her ass beat.


"Hell, I'm sure Og had some cool way of banging two rocks together, until he took himself too seriously."
- Pithecanthropus

Offline

 

#7 2005-04-24 2:08 pm

MrJ in OZ
Come and get one in the yarbles.
From: paradise
Registered: 2005-02-04
Posts: 3458

Re: Handcuffing chilren. Good option?

iBubba wrote:

She needs her ass beat.

You should be a baby-sitter


*Fallacy at its zenith kids.* "Who is this "we" you keep talking about? What price have "you" paid for this war? Blah, Blah. Its hardly a "we" proposition."

Offline

 

#8 2005-04-24 3:10 pm

Pariah
James Carville Fan..
From: Belly Of The Beast, Oklahoma!
Registered: 2001-05-24
Posts: 18402

Re: Handcuffing chilren. Good option?

Much ado about nothing.


"and it's not surprising that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
Barack Obama

Offline

 

#9 2005-04-24 3:29 pm

Camp David
Banned
Registered: 2003-04-11
Posts: 6065

Re: Handcuffing chilren. Good option?

Steyr AUG wrote:

Police put hancuffs on every violent suspect for their own safety. Sure the girl was young, but she was also violent.

I saw the video of this child=> she was standing on tables and threated to hit the teacher... handcuffs are a good idea.. non-violent punishment... the parent of this child should be investigated.


Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger/Benedict XVI: "a simple, humble worker in God's vineyard." Habemus Papem!

Offline

 

#10 2005-04-24 3:34 pm

XYZ
Banned
Registered: 2000-07-03
Posts: 10881

Re: Handcuffing chilren. Good option?

It's ridiculous. 5 year old kids should not be handcuffed.


there's really no need for all of this

Offline

 

#11 2005-04-24 3:50 pm

Steyr AUG
Agent Orange
From: 'Nam
Registered: 2001-08-24
Posts: 27535
Website

Re: Handcuffing chilren. Good option?

XYZ wrote:

It's ridiculous. 5 year old kids should not be handcuffed.

How many people have to get hurt by 5 year old kids before your opinion changes?


Just like back in Saigon! Eh, slick?

Offline

 

#12 2005-04-24 4:20 pm

Phydeaux
Watching, Listening and Waiting
From: Hopin You'll Turn Out Th'Light
Registered: 2001-05-11
Posts: 29999
Website

Re: Handcuffing chilren. Good option?

Handcuffing children

Definitely. Hands and legs so that they squirm more without going anywhere when you--






...oh. blush







All obscenity aside, I've never been cuffed for whenever I was arrested, and I would have to see the video to really give my call on this. Was she fighting the officers? Then yes. Otherwise if she would've cooperated with being escorted out, then that should've been done.

But regardless, the police should never have to be called in on a five year old. Where I'm at now, that sort of behaviour is handled by bringing the principal by with a paddle.

Last edited by Donovan Osaya (2005-04-24 4:21 pm)


Spirit was crushed; now is fading, But I want to help make things right.
Because I can see and I can feel, and you can see and you can feel
So why don't we both either stand up and fight
Or at least together we'll call it a night.

Offline

 

#13 2005-04-24 5:08 pm

after-life
Member
Registered: 2003-12-25
Posts: 2370

Re: Handcuffing chilren. Good option?

Steyr AUG wrote:

How many people have to get hurt by 5 year old kids before your opinion changes?

Yeah, because 5 year olds have such massive physical strength.

It's disturbing that the police were brought in. She wasn't a threat to her own or anyone else's safety. Apparently, she had already calmed down by the time the police arrived.

If I were the mother, I'd be seriously researching a lawsuit.

Offline

 

#14 2005-04-24 5:14 pm

iBubba
Displaced
From: central Iowa
Registered: 2000-10-06
Posts: 7109

Re: Handcuffing chilren. Good option?

pepper spray.
bean bag.
cuff her.

then beat her ass.


"Hell, I'm sure Og had some cool way of banging two rocks together, until he took himself too seriously."
- Pithecanthropus

Offline

 

#15 2005-04-24 5:15 pm

Podesta
Member
Registered: 2005-03-21
Posts: 928

Re: Handcuffing chilren. Good option?

So, now even five-year-old black people are violent threats who need to be handcuffed?  Yes, that is what is being under the rug swept by the person who posted this entry and  some of the commenters so far.   They are basing their support of the officers' ineptitude on the race of the child.  If the child was white, their response would be quite different.  What's next?  A claim that African-American infants should be restrained at birth?  Not so incidentally, some of the same persons applauding abuse of this child have expressed bigotry on other threads.  That is where they are coming from.

The unreasonableness of the adults' behavior is what should be investigated.

The best way to treat tantrums is to stand back and let the child act out.   Eventually, he or she will calm down.   That is true of children of all colors, so Oz, Steyr, You Know Who, and the not yet arrived, but completely predictable BB1 through 3, should feel free to spare us the 'blacks are inherently violent,' attempt at justification. 

This situation is egregious.  I would represent the parents of the child pro bono.

Offline

 

#16 2005-04-24 5:15 pm

mo' ron
PS3 4 EVA
From: NC, USA
Registered: 2002-10-15
Posts: 14246

Re: Handcuffing chilren. Good option?

MrJ in OZ wrote:

Your right about her own safety, but I heardly think she was really posing a violent threat. Unless ur afraid of thrown papers and getting paper cuts. She could have been violent to the other children but they did a good job of seperating her.

I think her behavior is due to her mothers lack of proper disapline.

You don't see Japanese children acting like that because they act as they see their parents act.  (Sure they got there own casses where a boy cut off the head of another, but he was phychotic.)

I would say it's almost impossible for a 5 yo to pose a violent threat to police officers, except if she had a gun. I'm guessing the cops did it not because she was a threat, but to show her there are consequences for her action. I doubt this kid is going to forget the time she was handcuffed for behaving badly, and will think twice before doing something bad later on in her life.

There was a situation like this on COPS where this 8 yo kid was cussing and threatening to beat up his grandmother (who he lived with because his parents abandoned him, or something like that). She called the cops and they put him in handcuffs and had him sit in the patrol car for a little while, talked to him, and let him go. It's pretty clear this kid had a bad life, and his grandma didn't seem like the best guardian, but the kid still needed to have some responsibility for his actions (this kid was white, btw).

Unless these cops somehow abused this girl, I don't think they did anything wrong.

Last edited by mo' ron (2005-04-24 5:17 pm)


What is the difference between Vista and OSX?
- Microsoft employees are excited about OSX.

Offline

 

#17 2005-04-24 5:16 pm

Steyr AUG
Agent Orange
From: 'Nam
Registered: 2001-08-24
Posts: 27535
Website

Re: Handcuffing chilren. Good option?

after-life wrote:

Steyr AUG wrote:

How many people have to get hurt by 5 year old kids before your opinion changes?

Yeah, because 5 year olds have such massive physical strength.

It's disturbing that the police were brought in. She wasn't a threat to her own or anyone else's safety. Apparently, she had already calmed down by the time the police arrived.

If I were the mother, I'd be seriously researching a lawsuit.

A recent story here, 2nd grader punched a custodian in the groin, causing him to have an irregular  hearbeat and being taken to the emegency room. Now what were you saying?

Last edited by Steyr AUG (2005-04-24 5:17 pm)


Just like back in Saigon! Eh, slick?

Offline

 

#18 2005-04-24 5:20 pm

Steyr AUG
Agent Orange
From: 'Nam
Registered: 2001-08-24
Posts: 27535
Website

Re: Handcuffing chilren. Good option?

Podesta wrote:

The best way to treat tantrums is to stand back and let the child act out.   Eventually, he or she will calm down.   That is true of children of all colors, so Oz, Steyr, You Know Who, and the not yet arrived, but completely predictable BB1 through 3, should feel free to spare us the 'blacks are inherently violent,' attempt at justification.

You need to improve your skills at predicting what people are going to say. No one here is that racist to post something like that.

The officers cuffed her for both her and their safety, I don't see a problem with that.


Just like back in Saigon! Eh, slick?

Offline

 

#19 2005-04-24 5:46 pm

iBubba
Displaced
From: central Iowa
Registered: 2000-10-06
Posts: 7109

Re: Handcuffing chilren. Good option?

Steyr AUG wrote:

after-life wrote:

Steyr AUG wrote:

How many people have to get hurt by 5 year old kids before your opinion changes?

Yeah, because 5 year olds have such massive physical strength.

It's disturbing that the police were brought in. She wasn't a threat to her own or anyone else's safety. Apparently, she had already calmed down by the time the police arrived.

If I were the mother, I'd be seriously researching a lawsuit.

A recent story here, 2nd grader punched a custodian in the groin, causing him to have an irregular  hearbeat and being taken to the emegency room. Now what were you saying?

:mini-iBubba runs up and chumps a good shot in Steyr's sack:

In all seriousness, the cuffs were over the top. What happened to calling the kid's parents?

THEN her folks could have whooped her little, bratty ass.


"Hell, I'm sure Og had some cool way of banging two rocks together, until he took himself too seriously."
- Pithecanthropus

Offline

 

#20 2005-04-24 6:08 pm

Switcher
Member
From: Beantown
Registered: 2004-02-18
Posts: 1202

Re: Handcuffing chilren. Good option?

She was 5 you do not need to cuff a five year old kid that is one handed lift man. If I was in that situation I would just grab her what was she like 50 lb? Grab squeeze hand to the body and and handle her inn the car no need to restrain her like that.


evolution of superstition
4  dear Easter bunny
10 dear Santa
20 dear God

Offline

 

#21 2005-04-24 6:43 pm

Cyberpawz
Member
Registered: 2001-11-14
Posts: 10172

Re: Handcuffing chilren. Good option?

The school teachers and faculty are technically not even allowed to touch a child, or they can be sued. A child can punch hit, throw things at the teacher but the teacher can't do anything back except tell the student to calm down or to tell them to have a "time out". The schools now have to hire faculty which are allowed to handle the child if they get out of control.

The principle although in the right for what she did could be looking at a hearing for "handling the child"  in the first place...

And Podesta, grow up. This is not just a minority issue, this would of happened no matter what race the child was, or what age the child was.

Switcher wrote:

She was 5 you do not need to cuff a five year old kid that is one handed lift man. If I was in that situation I would just grab her what was she like 50 lb? Grab squeeze hand to the body and and handle her inn the car no need to restrain her like that.

You would of been charged by the parents for using excessive force. The school would put you on administrative leave with pay possibly and your career would be destroyed.  You aren't allowed to touch a child to restrain in any situation.

Last edited by Cyberpawz (2005-04-24 6:44 pm)


Governing sense, mind and intellect, intent of liberation, free from desire, fear and anger, the sage is forever free.

Bhagavad Gita (c.B.C. 400)

Offline

 

#22 2005-04-24 6:46 pm

mo' ron
PS3 4 EVA
From: NC, USA
Registered: 2002-10-15
Posts: 14246

Re: Handcuffing chilren. Good option?

You aren't allowed to touch a child to restrain in any situation.

I don't think this is true... I KNOW it's not true for schools (at least where I live), and i'm fairly sure it's not true for day cares (which are private institutions).


What is the difference between Vista and OSX?
- Microsoft employees are excited about OSX.

Offline

 

#23 2005-04-24 6:57 pm

Cyberpawz
Member
Registered: 2001-11-14
Posts: 10172

Re: Handcuffing chilren. Good option?

mo' ron wrote:

You aren't allowed to touch a child to restrain in any situation.

I don't think this is true... I KNOW it's not true for schools (at least where I live), and i'm fairly sure it's not true for day cares (which are private institutions).

Each school is different, many schools have a Corporal Punishment and Physical Restraint Policy. You are allowed to restrain the kid to keep harm from yourself, the kid, and any other type of damage. 

The problem though is that is a very, very questionable rule due to the fact that many people sort of like Podesta will call the race card into play, just because the child is black, and almost as a knee-jerk reaction call the NAACP up cause of "questionable physical restraint to a child of color". Many schools just blanket statement saying no touching the children period.

I've seen where I have worked a child throw a mouse and keyboard at the teacher, kick a computer (breaking the monitor) swing the chair around almost hitting other children. I grabbed the chair out of the kid's hand, and the teacher yelled at me saying to let the kid go.  She called the crew that was suppose to take care of it, and they did by baby-talking the kid down... and the kid was back in class in 20 minutes.

I asked the teacher why she stop me, she pretty much said that we aren't allowed to touch a child no matter the circumstances, and that the people she called were allowed to because they "were trained to deal with the situation".

Each school system is different, but in many cases handling the child is not allowed period unless you are certified to do so.

Last edited by Cyberpawz (2005-04-24 7:00 pm)


Governing sense, mind and intellect, intent of liberation, free from desire, fear and anger, the sage is forever free.

Bhagavad Gita (c.B.C. 400)

Offline

 

#24 2005-04-24 7:00 pm

subcitizen
Member
Registered: 2005-04-24
Posts: 37

Re: Handcuffing chilren. Good option?

it's not a race issue at all, it's a child-rearing issue. if the kid will act that way at school, imagine how she acts at home. that girl has been taught a very valuable lesson about where disobedience gets you, and it will be something she remembers for the rest of her life. for the mother to take legal action would just be like saying to that girl "you were right to throw that temper tantrum and attack those teachers, and the police were wrong". the kid was out of control, not the police, and it would be a sad day when 5 year olds have just as much (or more) power than teachers, their parents, or police officers. the kid wasn't hurt, the police officers did nothing wrong, there's no legal grounding or reason to sue.

-andrew

Offline

 

#25 2005-04-24 7:01 pm

mo' ron
PS3 4 EVA
From: NC, USA
Registered: 2002-10-15
Posts: 14246

Re: Handcuffing chilren. Good option?

You always seem to have the craziest stories, CP...


What is the difference between Vista and OSX?
- Microsoft employees are excited about OSX.

Offline

 

Board footer

Powered by PunBB 1.2.6
© Copyright 2002–2005 Rickard Andersson