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everlong wrote:

It sounds like you're inserting race into something that isnt necessarily a racial issue.

What I've done is bring the race issue out into the open.  It was already present, but not being addressed directly.   The person who started the thread, Oz, even went so far as to suggest that Japanese children do not throw tantrums.  (Which is ludicrous.  Lack of self-control at a young age is a normal part of child development.)  He followed that with an attack on African-American adults -- the child's parents serving as proxies.  We know absolutely nothing about the child's parents, so that makes no sense unless he is jumping to conclusions about them based on her race.  What he and other people who have done the same are implying is that, because the child is black, her parents, who they also assume to be black, are inept -- based on a single incidence of a temper tantrum.  That is poor reasoning, compounded by bigotry.   Then, the usual suspects in bigotry came on the thread and (surprise!) supported the way the child was treated.   Seems to be sufficient evidence to me.

As for Mo'ron's claim that the incident had nothing to do with race, I believe there has be a presumption that it did.   The data shows that African-American children are much more likely to be mistreated by school officials than white children.  So, when a five-year-old black child is the object of a call to the police and subsequent handcuffing, a reasonable person would have suspicions.  Of course, the school district can rebut that presumption by directing our attention to all the white kindergarteners they've treated the same or a similar way.  But, I will not be surprised to learn there have not been any.

mo' ron wrote:

Also, it seems you have more info on this case that is posted in this thread... can you post the source of this info?

Yes, please.

Also feel free to post what you think was racist in this thread.

mahakali wrote:

Ron, BBC has the clip (you need either Real Player or WMP).

Don.

Well... the video was kinda short, but it seems kinda unreasonable to call the po' in that situation. The girl was acting fairly typical of 5 yo. to me.

mahakali wrote:

MrJ in OZ wrote:

Your right about her own safety, but I heardly think she was really posing a violent threat. Unless ur afraid of thrown papers and getting paper cuts. She could have been violent to the other children but they did a good job of seperating her.

I think her behavior is due to her mothers lack of proper disapline.

You don't see Japanese children acting like that because they act as they see their parents act.  (Sure they got there own casses where a boy cut off the head of another, but he was phychotic.)

You can't guarantee that unless you know for sure about her environment. Behavioral problems can be caused by chemical substances (example).

There are many different health effects associated with elevated blood lead levels. Young children under the age of six are especially vulnerable to lead's harmful health effects, because their brains and central nervous system are still being formed. For them, even very low levels of exposure can result in reduced IQ, learning disabilities, attention deficit disorders, behavioral problems, stunted growth, impaired hearing, and kidney damage. At high levels of exposure, a child may become mentally retarded, fall into a coma, and even die from lead poisoning. Within the last ten years, children have died from lead poisoning in New Hampshire and in Alabama. Lead poisoning has also been associated with juvenile delinquency and criminal behavior.

Ever here of an incoident called the Minamata Disaster

MrJ in OZ wrote:

Podesta wrote:

The person who started the thread, Oz, even went so far as to suggest that Japanese children do not throw tantrums.  (Which is ludicrous.  Lack of self-control at a young age is a normal part of child development.)  He followed that with an attack on African-American adults -- the child's parents serving as proxies.  We know absolutely nothing about the child's parents, so that makes no sense unless he is jumping to conclusions about them based on her race.

I never said Japanese chilren NEVER throw tantrims. And I never mentioned BLACK people or parents. I feel sad for you,  you see such simple things as bigotry. You obviously read into things in a skewwed way and I feel pitty on you.

That's a bit of a rash generalization...

Podesta is kind of a forum n00b, so he doesn't really know the posters yet. And considering Cyberpawz's way of arguing (constantly misreading/misunderstanding statements, etc.) combined with the way he says certain things in the other thread, it wouldn't be hard to think that we tolerate racism on this forum. If Pod is looking at things from that angle, I understand why he said the things in this thread (but I still don't think they were in line for this thread).

Podesta wrote:

Policies on disciplining children vary throughout the country.  Sometimes they differ from district to district in the same state.   The claim that schools do not allow adults to touch children is not accurate.   Even in districts with limitations, if the touching is reasonable, rather than abusive, it would be allowed.  There tends to be a correlation between region of the country and whether corporal punishment is allowed.  The South has a high rate of corporal punishment.

There is also a proven correlation between race and abuse of children in public schools.  African-American children are disciplined disproportionately and more severely than white children.  The behavior is reflective of the continuing impact of racism in our society. 

Read the data here:

http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/ … anning.php

I totally disagree with the people who are trying to justify the way the child was treated on the grounds 'it will teach her a lessson.'  One lesson that child learned is that people two or three times her size, and even more times her age, will abuse her if given the opportunity.  Another is that many white people do not perceive African-Americans as fellow human beings deserving fair treatment, even when said black people are children.

There is a more in depth examination of the use of corporal punishment against black school children here:

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/ … i_n8721467

Oh, I wasn't going to point this out but you annoyed me.

Do you know anything about statistics? You could make these charts look anyway you wanted depending on how they collected the info and how they arranged the graphs. This source is total garbage. It's ok to show a general point but you used them as your argument basis.

http://www.stats.gla.ac.uk/steps/glossary/sampling.html

read up on bias charts as well. The type of charts they presented were  unreliable.

mo' ron wrote:

MrJ in OZ wrote:

Podesta wrote:

The person who started the thread, Oz, even went so far as to suggest that Japanese children do not throw tantrums.  (Which is ludicrous.  Lack of self-control at a young age is a normal part of child development.)  He followed that with an attack on African-American adults -- the child's parents serving as proxies.  We know absolutely nothing about the child's parents, so that makes no sense unless he is jumping to conclusions about them based on her race.

I never said Japanese chilren NEVER throw tantrims. And I never mentioned BLACK people or parents. I feel sad for you,  you see such simple things as bigotry. You obviously read into things in a skewwed way and I feel pitty on you.

That's a bit of a rash generalization...

Podesta is kind of a forum n00b, so he doesn't really know the posters yet. And considering Cyberpawz's way of arguing (constantly misreading/misunderstanding statements, etc.) combined with the way he says certain things in the other thread, it wouldn't be hard to think that we tolerate racism on this forum. If Pod is looking at things from that angle, I understand why he said the things in this thread (but I still don't think they were in line for this thread).

Well, theres jumping to conclusions ans there are jumping to conclusions while vilifying with slanderous intent.

MrJ in OZ wrote:

Do you know anything about statistics? You could make these charts look anyway you wanted depending on how they collected the info and how they arranged the graphs.

...and that argument can be thrown in whenever anyone posts 'statistics' concerning anything, but do you have any particular reason for saying this?

From what I can tell, the numbers are derived from the Department of Education...

matt wrote:

Hey, this topic reminded me of something- does anyone know what happened to Mac Mistress?

She got upset when NASA wouldn't hire her as an astronaut so now she is an award winning laywer.

bratboy wrote:

MrJ in OZ wrote:

Do you know anything about statistics? You could make these charts look anyway you wanted depending on how they collected the info and how they arranged the graphs.

...and that argument can be thrown in whenever anyone posts 'statistics' concerning anything, but do you have any particular reason for saying this?

From what I can tell, the numbers are derived from the Department of Education...

They took a page from "How to lie with statistics" by making the columns at the end tiny in comparison to the first columns.

Last edited by Steyr AUG (2005-04-25 12:57 am)

MrJ in OZ wrote:

mo' ron wrote:

and I wouldn't blame him too much for getting mad about it

I would. He can read between these lines for a change.

http://www.firstclassvoid.net/files/hand.jpg

Ha! That's quite an emotional response, considering he hasn't even responded to your response yet.

I'll chock that up to it being fairly late...