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everlong proves once again that at heart he just trolls to be a contrarian

Farmerkev wrote:

abortion

no knee jerk comebacks needed, just think about it

Considering over half of this country doesn't want to see a change in the Roe v. Wade decision, I don't see how this is an aspect of some other "culture."

everlong205 wrote:

Well the liberals are always talking about how we have to respect other cultures, and who's to say what's moral. I guess then,we shouldn't be snobbish about Iran killing gays for being gay. Then again, since everyting is morally equivalent anyway, we execute prisoners so who are we to say that what they do is wrong.

That was pretty uncalled for.  You have a valid point, but there's no reason to unnecessarily include many people who don't make this intellectual mistake.


I'll add that I see people make similar comments about conservatives and "righty-tighties" all the time here.

iBubba wrote:

everlong205 wrote:

Well the liberals are always talking about how we have to respect other cultures, and who's to say what's moral. I guess then,we shouldn't be snobbish about Iran killing gays for being gay. Then again, since everyting is morally equivalent anyway, we execute prisoners so who are we to say that what they do is wrong.

At what point is someone going to say enough is enough on this type of trollish bullsmurf?

You wont see me say this to often but I think everlong makes a valid point and thats not a trollish statement at all. Its a dabatibly accurate observation on the moral vagueries of our current society.

cocoamix wrote:

Farmerkev wrote:

no knee jerk comebacks needed, just think about it

Great argumentative tactic.
If someone somehow doesn't agree with your observation, it suggests they must not have thought about it.

Surely all three of us agree that abortion inspires knee-jerk reactions on both sides of the aisle.  And he wasn't equating that with all disagreement, he was saying "keep cool."

Last edited by charon (2005-07-22 11:18 am)

bratboy wrote:

charon wrote:

cocoamix wrote:

Great argumentative tactic.
If someone somehow doesn't agree with your observation, it suggests they must not have thought about it.

Surely all three of us agree that abortion inspires knee-jerk reactions on both sides of the aisle.  And he wasn't equating that with all disagreement, he was saying "keep cool."

Of course it does...but it doesn't make sense as a response to everlong's post.

I think it does and I sort of agree with his point, even though I'm personally pro-abortion rights.  There's an unnerving  moral relativism embodied in the distinct idea of "pro-choice.". 

Pro-choicers: "Fine, believe that fetuses have rights if you want to, just don't force it on us." 

Well, if fetuses actually do have rights that are being violated, can the two be separated?

Iranian theocrats: "Fine, believe that gays have rights if you want to, just don't force it on us."

Last edited by charon (2005-07-22 11:52 am)

bratboy wrote:

Whether one agrees or disagrees, the Supreme Court has stated that abortion is protected by U.S. law.  There are obvious mechanisms for rectifying this.

I'm not sure why you bring this up.

bratboy wrote:

Can one not have an opinion on other issues if they have an opinion on the abortion issue?  How is taking one position on 'abortion' any different than taking one position on 'war,' or the 'death penalty,' or anything else?

I'm not really following you here, either.  The question is whether lefties believe that individuals have the moral authority to enforce a generally applicable code of justice upon other individuals.  The pro-choice viewpoint seems to answer "no."  It regards the question of fetal rights as immaterial to the debate over abortion rights through a sidestep--"OK, if you think they have rights, don't get an abortion.  Just don't stop me."

Last edited by charon (2005-07-22 1:14 pm)

the pro-abortion people are always claiming "no one likes abortions" - which i do agree with - but it doesn't seem as if they're in a hurry to make stiffer requirements for someone to obtain one.

the only situation an abortion should occur is if the birth is going to seriously hurt or kill the mother.

if that was in place and enforced abortion wouldn't even be an issue.

charon wrote:

bratboy wrote:

charon wrote:

Surely all three of us agree that abortion inspires knee-jerk reactions on both sides of the aisle.  And he wasn't equating that with all disagreement, he was saying "keep cool."

Of course it does...but it doesn't make sense as a response to everlong's post.

I think it does and I sort of agree with his point, even though I'm personally pro-abortion rights.  There's an unnerving  moral relativism embodied in the distinct idea of "pro-choice.". 

Pro-choicers: "Fine, believe that fetuses have rights if you want to, just don't force it on us." 

Well, if fetuses actually do have rights that are being violated, can the two be separated?

Iranian theocrats: "Fine, believe that gays have rights if you want to, just don't force it on us."

And who are we to force our values on other countries? That's cultural chauvinism. If we are to respect other countries and not impose our cultural ideas on them and withhold our moral judgements and live and let live and all that cal, then we should not bat an eye when one of those cultures thinks its a ok to execute gays simply for being gay or when darfur commits genocide.  I don't think thats a ok, but I'm just a cultural chauvanist.

charon wrote:

The question is whether lefties believe that individuals have the moral authority to enforce a generally applicable code of justice upon other individuals.

Okay...and I don't think it's a surprise to anyone here that people have been executed in some middle-eastern countries for being homosexual. 

The pro-choice viewpoint seems to answer "no."  It regards the question of fetal rights as immaterial to the debate over abortion rights through a sidestep--"OK, if you think they have rights, don't get an abortion.  Just don't stop me."

...and do we not shape 'rights'  through our laws?  Are you saying that "lefties" (and I'm seeing a lot of generalization in this thread) are hypocritical because they're not engaging in debate over "fetus rights?"

According to TimesOnline, those two were executed for gang-raping a 13yr old boy at knife point. Being gay doesn't excuse you for commiting violent acts. They might have given the kid aids. Maybe the title should be 'Two gay rapist pedophiles executed'.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, … 58,00.html

No one said that "being gay" excuses anyone from committing any crime, genius.

It's funny how selective some are with the facts surrounding this execution. The way this thread started, you'd think that those two were executed for being gay.......and not being rapists as they were accused.

Neither one of them said anything about an alleged rape.

That's my point.