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#1 2005-07-28 3:20 pm
- XYZ
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Internalized homophobia, hypocrisy in anti-gay politics
Dr. Betty Berzon wrote:
....Not everyone is so fortunate. Some people continue to struggle against themselves, and in the process they do things that compromise their own well-being. Sadly, maddeningly, when such a person is in a position of power, their behavior can also be destructive to other gays and lesbians whose lives are vulnerable to the anti-gay politics the individual may be promoting. During the last year, there has been an explosion of outings involving people who are playing out their own internal identity wars on the battlefield of other gay people's lives.
James E. West, the mayor of Spokane, Washington, has a 23-year record of opposing all gay rights legislation in his city and state. In May, he was publicly outed as a gay man who allegedly trolled the Internet for dates with young men, even offering them jobs at city hall in exchange for sex.
Arthur Finkelstein is a longtime power broker in the Republican Party. He is credited with enhancing the careers of many anti-gay politicians, including Jesse Helms. Don Nickels, one of Finkelstein's clients recently made a speech in the U.S. Senate saying: "Homosexuality is wrong, it's immoral, and it shouldn't be condoned, and it certainly shouldn't be elevated to a special protected status by the federal government." The announcement that Finkelstein married his male partner of 40 years last December in Massachusetts came as a big surprise to his many anti-gay political clients in the Republican Party, particularly those known for their rabid opposition to gay marriage.
Pennsylvania Senator Rick Santorum enjoys a reputation as the most vocally active political enemy of gay people in the United States. His most famous statement about gays? "While homosexuality is not, you know, man on child, man on dog ... the question is, do you act on those orientations?" Santorum has also suggested publicly that the government has the right to prohibit gay and lesbian individuals from expressing love for each other physically. "There are consequences to letting people live out whatever wants or passions they desire."
In July of this year it was revealed that Robert Traynham, Santorum's director of communications, is an openly gay man. Traynham, who has worked for the senator for eight years. One has to wonder what goes on in Traynham's head when he listens to Santorum demonizing gays. From that part of him that still struggles with his own sense of identity, does he quietly say to himself, "Right on Rick, what you say is so true"?
We are inclined to say of all this, "Ain't it awful?!" But isn't there something to do about it? One thing we can do in our own lives is be vigilant for homophobia we may have internalized without realizing what we were doing. Internalized homophobia is the enemy within that attacks our natural drive to grow and be healthy and whole.
An example: You pick up that your family doesn't want to hear anything about the gay part of your life. You cooperate in the conspiracy of silence surrounding this because you don't want to upset anybody, yet you feel stifled, punished. You listen to others in the family talk about their lives, loves and friends, but you are silent. This may mean that some part of you must agree that your gay life is not fit for discussion within the family context. That's internalized homophobia, and you are letting it take root and grow by agreeing to be silenced. Speak up. Insist they listen. Talking about your life will normalize it for them -- and for you as well.
Clinton criticises GOP strategist wrote:
Finkelstein, 59, has spent decades helping far-right, anti-gay politicians win re-election, including notorious North Carolina Sen. Jesse Helms. He is now galvanizing conservative donors to raise $10 million for a new PAC, "Stop Her Now," to pre-empt a possible presidential bid by Clinton in 2008 by defeating her 2006 re-election to the Senate in New York. Finkelstein made headlines last weekend after The New York Times reported that in December he married his male partner at his Massachusetts home. He was quickly denounced as a "hypocrite" by Democrats. "For years he's worked for right-wing candidates who demonize gays and lesbians, and who have tried to prevent gays and lesbians from being married," said Massachusetts Democratic Party chairman Philip Johnston.
When asked about Finkelstein's efforts to unseat his wife, Bill Clinton responded, "Either this guy believes his party is not serious and is totally Machiavellian in its position, or you know, as David Brock said in his great book 'Blinded by the Right,' there's some sort of self-loathing or something. I was more sad for him."
Log Cabin Republicans had harsh words for the former president, citing the federal Defense of Marriage Act and the military's anti-gay "don't ask, don't tell" policy, both of which Clinton signed into law. Clinton also favored the proposed adoption, by the Democratic platform during the 2004 election, of a policy against the legalization of same-sex marriage and was highly critical of the Democrats' refusal to adopt the policy. Similarly, Senator Clinton has repeatedly expressed the opinion that civil unions, not marriage, are appropriate for gay and lesbian Americans.
It's not just self-hating and/or amoral gays that are the hypocrites and the problem. Santorum has decided to "stand by" his spokesperson, and his spokesperson said the senator knew he's gay. The mind reels...
It's just as one gay commentator on Charlie Rose said: "We have no representation. We have no friends in Washington." He went on to assert that the HIV/AIDS epidemic has been condoned by those in power as a way to reduce the number of gays. He cited the number of years in which nothing was done or said by the US government in the 80s, as well as other points.
there's really no need for all of this
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#2 2005-07-28 3:22 pm
- XYZ
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Re: Internalized homophobia, hypocrisy in anti-gay politics
One must also note the irony of the Log Cabin Republicans criticizing Clinton. The hypocrisy of both sides makes the entire thing a sad farce.
there's really no need for all of this
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#3 2005-07-28 3:27 pm
Re: Internalized homophobia, hypocrisy in anti-gay politics
Happens with straight people to - jobs for sex while condemning such actions is not exclusive to gay politicians.
I think part of though is they are afraid they will not be elected if it is known they are gay.
And there is probably some truth to that.
In the wind, we hear their laughter
In the rain, we see their tears
Hear their heartbeat
We hear their heartbeat -- U2
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#4 2005-07-28 3:34 pm
- ShnickyShnack
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Re: Internalized homophobia, hypocrisy in anti-gay politics
Society still can't handle the idea of being gay -- we're still far, far from the point where it's no big deal.
Ditto for being black or female or whatever.
Progress has been made (lots and lots of progress), but there's still a helluva ways to go yet (alas).
I stopped by a gay wedding recently, and was touched, as I always am, by the fact of it being just so non OMG. It looked like any other wedding. I thought it was really sweet that everyone seemed okay with it.
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#5 2005-07-28 3:34 pm
- XYZ
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Re: Internalized homophobia, hypocrisy in anti-gay politics
Happens with straight people to - jobs for sex while condemning such actions is not exclusive to gay politicians.
A minor point that seems obvious.
I think part of though is they are afraid they will not be elected if it is known they are gay. And there is probably some truth to that.
There is a huge difference between being in the closet and actively being part of a persecution machine. Being in the closet does hurt all gays, but not nearly as much as being a successful GOP strategist, or some other powerful person.
there's really no need for all of this
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#6 2005-07-28 3:50 pm
- Podesta
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Re: Internalized homophobia, hypocrisy in anti-gay politics
Resedit wrote:
I think part of though is they are afraid they will not be elected if it is known they are gay. And there is probably some truth to that.
I believe the situation more complex than that. Jim West would not have voted for a gay candidate, meaning that he would not have voted for himself. (Yes, it sounds strange. But, it is true. Self-deception was necessary for him to function.) He did not 'become' gay until after the Spokesman-Review outed him. He first claimed asexuality, then bisexuality, and, in a last ditch effort for sympathy, to be a homosexual oppressed because he is a conservative Republican. He also seems to have a palpable contempt for gays. They are okay for sex, but West's record of anti-gay stances in public and private, and no relationships beyond sex, reveals a disdain for them. Being familiar with other minority groups, I've seen this attitude before. For example, you would be hard put to find someone with more contempt for non-whites than Michelle Malkin. But, hatred of one's own group seems to be particularly common among gays. The fact that twenty-something percent of them voted for the GOP's candidates during an electoral season that exploited homophobia is telling. I don't have a full explanation of the phenomenon, but think it is related to being a 'hidden' minority.
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#7 2005-07-28 3:58 pm
- bratboy
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Re: Internalized homophobia, hypocrisy in anti-gay politics
I'm very suspicious of Rick Santorum...I don't care how many kids he has.
And what's this about him considering a run for the presidency? Isn't he in danger of losing his reelection to the Senate?
"One thing we've learned is there's a difference between being disappointed and having madmen in authority."
--Paul Krugman
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#8 2005-07-28 3:59 pm
Re: Internalized homophobia, hypocrisy in anti-gay politics
Podesta wrote:
They are okay for sex, but West's record of anti-gay stances in public and private, and no relationships beyond sex, reveals a disdain for them.
Yes, it does.
He had issues.
In the wind, we hear their laughter
In the rain, we see their tears
Hear their heartbeat
We hear their heartbeat -- U2
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#9 2005-07-28 4:05 pm
- bratboy
- keeping the poor down
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Re: Internalized homophobia, hypocrisy in anti-gay politics
Lots of closeted individuals act in such a manner. Maybe it's self-hatred, or perhaps just overcompensation. I've personally seen similar scenarios play out in people I've come in contact with throughout my life.
"One thing we've learned is there's a difference between being disappointed and having madmen in authority."
--Paul Krugman
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#10 2005-07-28 4:30 pm
- XYZ
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Re: Internalized homophobia, hypocrisy in anti-gay politics
It can also be pure unvarnished greed. Clinton's mention of Machiavelli seems apt. Sadly, minorities often target other minorities for discrimination, if they feel it will help them. Similarly, those within minorities will target members of their group if they feel it will help them. It's the Jewish Nazi phenomena. Jewish Nazis came about, not due to internalized anti-Semitism, but primarily from the process of those in a weak position aligning themselves with the position of power at the expense of morality. One might argue that Jewish Nazis were no worse than other Nazis, since the other Nazis also aligned themselves with an amoral power system for personal gain. Ultimately, it's the amoral power system that matters. So, Jewish Nazis and homophobic gays are not the biggest problem, although the latter are a very serious problem. Still, it can be argued that even one person can make a huge impact, like Martin Luther King Jr. or Ghandi, which places considerable blame on the gays who are part of the persecution machine.
there's really no need for all of this
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#11 2005-07-29 7:12 am
- jerwin
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Re: Internalized homophobia, hypocrisy in anti-gay politics
Even in Victorian England, they might have gotten away with their brazen displays of public affection, although most of their contemporaries considered inter-class sex at least as shocking as homosexual unions. But two facts guaranteed Wilde's eventual fall: Bosie's father, the Marquis of Queensberry, was violently homophobic, and Bosie was one of his two gay sons. The other, Viscount Francis Drumlanrig, was the lover of Lord Rosebery, who became a Liberal prime minister.
Viscount Drumlanrig died after a hunting "accident," which McKenna argues was probably a suicide intended to protect his famous lover. The death of his oldest son inflamed the already erratic Queensberry. The big news in this biography is the strong circumstantial evidence McKenna presents that Queensberry sent a short and explicit ultimatum to the Liberal government: Send Oscar Wilde to prison or face the exposure of several senior Liberal politicians -- including the prime minister -- as sodomites.
Some subjects actually enjoy pain, and withhold information they might otherwise have divulged in order to be punished.
Central Intelligence Agency. (1983). Human Resource Exploitation Training Manual
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#12 2005-08-02 9:45 pm
- Ronald Reagan
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Re: Internalized homophobia, hypocrisy in anti-gay politics
interesting...
Efficient coroutine generation of constrained Gray sequences
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#13 2005-08-03 8:50 am
- dv
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Re: Internalized homophobia, hypocrisy in anti-gay politics
Don't bother bumping your own threads - if any of the regulars were going to reply, they would have by now.
"Now commences the process of cutting off the head, which generally takes from an hour to an hour and a half by an expert workman with a sharp blade." -Reuben Delano, Wanderings and Adventures
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#14 2005-08-03 9:38 am
- NokX
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Re: Internalized homophobia, hypocrisy in anti-gay politics
if someone doesn't agree with a behavior or sexual act - why is that person labeled as a bigot, intolerant, etc...?
i don't get it...everyone doesn't have to be into the same sort of things as everyone else.
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it." Abraham Lincoln
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#15 2005-08-03 9:48 am
- Zetetic Apparatchik
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Re: Internalized homophobia, hypocrisy in anti-gay politics
The problem isn't with everyone not being bi-. It's with words (or rather the 'thoughts' behind them) like 'smurf or 'muff-diver' and for that matter, 'breeder'. Apologies if one of those words appears to refer to the little blue people.
Join the MAF AudioScrobbler group.
Protest ist, wenn ich sage, das und das paßt mir nicht. Widerstand ist, wenn ich dafür sorge, daß das, was mir nicht paßt, nicht länger geschieht.
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#16 2005-08-03 9:48 am
- IcarusFountain
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Re: Internalized homophobia, hypocrisy in anti-gay politics
I wish I had an Ignore button...
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#17 2005-08-03 10:13 am
- MysticCow
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Re: Internalized homophobia, hypocrisy in anti-gay politics
click here to view this post.
I wonder what happened to my colleagues who voted with me as I opposed every war supplemental request under the previous administration. It seems, with very few exceptions, they have changed their position on the war now that the White House has changed hands.--Ron Paul
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#18 2005-08-03 10:40 am
- Ronald Reagan
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Re: Internalized homophobia, hypocrisy in anti-gay politics
dvpierce wrote:
Don't bother bumping your own threads - if any of the regulars were going to reply, they would have by now.
I found the comment interesting and had just read it. I don't live in these forums, buddy. If I find a comment in a topic interesting, I'll say so, with or without your permission.
Isn't Oatmeal the moderator here?
Efficient coroutine generation of constrained Gray sequences
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#19 2005-08-03 10:43 am
- MysticCow
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Re: Internalized homophobia, hypocrisy in anti-gay politics
Just saying "Interesting..." really isn't a response. It's a Postcount++ for one thing, and it's a shameless bump for another.
I wonder what happened to my colleagues who voted with me as I opposed every war supplemental request under the previous administration. It seems, with very few exceptions, they have changed their position on the war now that the White House has changed hands.--Ron Paul
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#20 2005-08-03 10:44 am
- Ronald Reagan
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Re: Internalized homophobia, hypocrisy in anti-gay politics
If simple responses were a crime, Steyr would have been banned years ago. Troll somewhere else, boys.
Efficient coroutine generation of constrained Gray sequences
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#21 2005-08-03 10:46 am
- MysticCow
- Junior Assistant Poobah (Probationary)
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Re: Internalized homophobia, hypocrisy in anti-gay politics
awww, someone can't stand the fact that he was cyber-slapped by a moderator and a member over the same thing. poor baby...
Last edited by MysticCow (2005-08-03 10:46 am)
I wonder what happened to my colleagues who voted with me as I opposed every war supplemental request under the previous administration. It seems, with very few exceptions, they have changed their position on the war now that the White House has changed hands.--Ron Paul
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#22 2005-08-03 10:49 am
- Ronald Reagan
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Re: Internalized homophobia, hypocrisy in anti-gay politics
Why you're not banned escapes me, frankly.
Poor moderation seems to be a current trend. Hopefully, it will be remedied. Some of the current crop are people I would have not expected to be given the responsibility. Alien, for instance, doesn't seem to understand that moderators are supposed to behave more maturely than regular posters in order to maintain their authority and keep order.
This topic has been sidetracked enough.
Efficient coroutine generation of constrained Gray sequences
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#23 2005-08-03 10:55 am
- MysticCow
- Junior Assistant Poobah (Probationary)
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- Registered: 2002-07-29
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Re: Internalized homophobia, hypocrisy in anti-gay politics
Derailment of topics--2
Macaddict forums--0
As to my banning, that is a question that is up to the moderators, not you. Plus all mods are appointed, so who knows? Maybe one day, you'll be a mod!
I wonder what happened to my colleagues who voted with me as I opposed every war supplemental request under the previous administration. It seems, with very few exceptions, they have changed their position on the war now that the White House has changed hands.--Ron Paul
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#24 2005-08-03 10:58 am
- ShnickyShnack
- ::: title edited due to Satanic influences :::

- From: Rockin' out
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Re: Internalized homophobia, hypocrisy in anti-gay politics
What the hell's wrong with saying "interesting?" Not a bloody thing, that's what.
Good Lord, people, chill the hell out.
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#25 2005-08-03 11:06 am
- Onthebeach
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Re: Internalized homophobia, hypocrisy in anti-gay politics
The Oscar Wilde thingy was interesting
If any ask us why we died,
Tell them 'Because our fathers lied'.
Kipling
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