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#1 2007-09-19 4:18 pm
- Fried Chicken
- Member
- From: Good question - keeps changing
- Registered: 2003-11-17
- Posts: 4557
Yay, spying on Americans...
By our own government. It's not really something new, but that doesn't make it any more reasonable. I think it's sad what liberties Mr. Bush is taking away.
Mr. chief of intelligence is crying that he doesn't have enough spying abilities.
The US Intelligence Chief has asked Congress for more changes to a law that he says limits the government's authority to eavesdrop.
In his testimony prepared for a Tuesday congressional hearing, Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell says that a law passed last month expanding the US government's eavesdropping power is needed to protect against not only "terrorists" but also "more traditional potential adversaries".
]The Protect America Act allows the government to eavesdrop, without a court order, on all communications conducted by a person reasonably believed to be outside the United States, even if an American is on one end of the conversation.
Such surveillance was generally prohibited under the original Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act and it is one of the more controversial aspects of the new law.
What defines "reasonable"? What do we understand under "more traditional potential adversaries"? Why can we not trust our fellow Americans?
This administration taking away the right of Americans in the name of a false fear imprinted upon us makes me sick.
Just because something is legal, doesn't mean it's right. Just because something is illegal, doesn't mean it's wrong.
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#2 2007-09-19 4:52 pm
- Pariah
- James Carville Fan..
- From: Belly Of The Beast, Oklahoma!
- Registered: 2001-05-24
- Posts: 18402
Re: Yay, spying on Americans...
I absolutely guarantee that every single snooping and invasive power given to fight "terrorism" today will be a routine law enforcement tactic in 10 years.
Once a precedent is set, once an exception is made for one single crime, it will always spread till it is universally applied.
"and it's not surprising that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
Barack Obama
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#3 2007-09-19 5:41 pm
- Fried Chicken
- Member
- From: Good question - keeps changing
- Registered: 2003-11-17
- Posts: 4557
Re: Yay, spying on Americans...
Pariah wrote:
I absolutely guarantee that every single snooping and invasive power given to fight "terrorism" today will be a routine law enforcement tactic in 10 years.
Once a precedent is set, once an exception is made for one single crime, it will always spread till it is universally applied.
Which is exactly what I fear. I hope the next president does away with acts like these, along with the "Patriot" Act.
Just because something is legal, doesn't mean it's right. Just because something is illegal, doesn't mean it's wrong.
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#4 2007-09-19 8:12 pm
- Robert B.
- Reality Deficient
- From: The pit of despair
- Registered: 1999-03-09
- Posts: 10269
Re: Yay, spying on Americans...
you have nothing to fear if you've done nothing wrong.
"Evil will always triumph because Good is dumb."
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#5 2007-09-19 8:32 pm
- sturner
- Royal High Poobah
- Moderator
- From: Carrollton, TX USA
- Registered: 2000-01-31
- Posts: 13779
Re: Yay, spying on Americans...
They've been on the hill all week begging for more lax laws so they can snoop at will, more or less.
I'm not dead yet.
There are 3 types of people, those who can count and those who can't.
"There are few things graven in stone, excepting your date of death."
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#6 2007-09-19 8:37 pm
- Farmerkev
- Official Dementor
- Moderator
- Registered: 2003-01-03
- Posts: 18617
Re: Yay, spying on Americans...
I don't know why anyone would want to spy on more or less.
Do your part to combat global warming.
Eat a cow.
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#7 2007-09-19 8:52 pm
- sturner
- Royal High Poobah
- Moderator
- From: Carrollton, TX USA
- Registered: 2000-01-31
- Posts: 13779
Re: Yay, spying on Americans...
I don't either, but NIA director wants to
I'm not dead yet.
There are 3 types of people, those who can count and those who can't.
"There are few things graven in stone, excepting your date of death."
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#8 2007-09-19 8:57 pm
- Farmerkev
- Official Dementor
- Moderator
- Registered: 2003-01-03
- Posts: 18617
Re: Yay, spying on Americans...
He probably reads Shicky's blog.
Do your part to combat global warming.
Eat a cow.
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#9 2007-09-19 9:39 pm
- sturner
- Royal High Poobah
- Moderator
- From: Carrollton, TX USA
- Registered: 2000-01-31
- Posts: 13779
Re: Yay, spying on Americans...
Wouldn't that be toxic?
I'm not dead yet.
There are 3 types of people, those who can count and those who can't.
"There are few things graven in stone, excepting your date of death."
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#10 2007-09-20 12:14 am
- NAG
- A witch!
- Royal Wombat
- From: /usr/local/apps/nag
- Registered: 2000-09-22
- Posts: 30229
Re: Yay, spying on Americans...
They just want to know where we all get our leet wares.
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#11 2007-09-20 10:08 am
- sturner
- Royal High Poobah
- Moderator
- From: Carrollton, TX USA
- Registered: 2000-01-31
- Posts: 13779
Re: Yay, spying on Americans...
I get mine from one of three places.
1. Computer City
2. Russia
3. The Chinese military
I'm not dead yet.
There are 3 types of people, those who can count and those who can't.
"There are few things graven in stone, excepting your date of death."
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#12 2007-09-20 10:17 am
- jerwin
- Sophist
- From: The Garden of Pure Ideology
- Registered: 2003-01-01
- Posts: 7052
Re: Yay, spying on Americans...
Farmerkev wrote:
I don't know why anyone would want to spy on more or less.
I don't know either. But they might find something. After all, you can't find the dirt if you never start to dig.
Some subjects actually enjoy pain, and withhold information they might otherwise have divulged in order to be punished.
Central Intelligence Agency. (1983). Human Resource Exploitation Training Manual
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#13 2007-09-20 10:54 am
Re: Yay, spying on Americans...
Why would you suspect and want to tie the hands of those who are just trying to protect you? if you hate freedom so much, why don't you move to Iran today?
Only when these so-called "rights" have been eliminated can our true freedoms be protected. You have to find the little crying patriot, hiding deep in your insides. Follow his heart, and then your heart, down the path to victory.
We should just abolish the constitution before we all get killed by terrorists. It is not a suicide pact because every second of every day is just a countdown to when we will all be brutally attacked and killed by terrorists. They are dark, murderous beast men, thirsty for your blood.
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#14 2007-09-20 11:50 am
- JakeTheTall
- Cargo Cultist
- From: In Permanent Opposition
- Registered: 2003-03-13
- Posts: 9611
Re: Yay, spying on Americans...
sturner wrote:
I get mine from one of three places.
1. Computer City
2. Russia
3. The Chinese military
Israeli intelligence surplus goods is where its really at, though.
Jesus said to the servants, "Fill the jars with water"; so they filled them to the brim. Then he told them, "Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet." They did so, and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew.
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#15 2007-09-20 12:25 pm
- Beagle/Bro.
- Sally Tally/Bookeeper
- From: AppleWorks Plug-ins/Hacks
- Registered: 2006-10-03
- Posts: 2074
- Website
Re: Yay, spying on Americans...
Glenn Greenwald has lots to say on this issue, posted yesterday:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/ … index.html
Recommended reading.
"I am...operational...my circuits are functioning.."
http://www.wisdomquotes.com/002921.html
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." -->> HST
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#16 2007-09-20 1:27 pm
- sturner
- Royal High Poobah
- Moderator
- From: Carrollton, TX USA
- Registered: 2000-01-31
- Posts: 13779
Re: Yay, spying on Americans...
The Israeli intelligence services are the outsource target of the Chinese Military. They can't trust their own intelligencia, so they hire the Israelies.
I'm not dead yet.
There are 3 types of people, those who can count and those who can't.
"There are few things graven in stone, excepting your date of death."
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#17 2007-09-20 1:33 pm
- zoees
- Member
- From: Maryland
- Registered: 2001-08-14
- Posts: 2690
Re: Yay, spying on Americans...
Kripto wrote:
Why would you suspect and want to tie the hands of those who are just trying to protect you? if you hate freedom so much, why don't you move to Iran today?
Only when these so-called "rights" have been eliminated can our true freedoms be protected. You have to find the little crying patriot, hiding deep in your insides. Follow his heart, and then your heart, down the path to victory.
We should just abolish the constitution before we all get killed by terrorists. It is not a suicide pact because every second of every day is just a countdown to when we will all be brutally attacked and killed by terrorists. They are dark, murderous beast men, thirsty for your blood.
Please tell me you're kidding.
Last edited by zoees (2007-09-20 1:33 pm)
"I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do".—D. Dale Gulledge
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#18 2007-09-22 1:55 pm
- Fried Chicken
- Member
- From: Good question - keeps changing
- Registered: 2003-11-17
- Posts: 4557
Re: Yay, spying on Americans...
zoees wrote:
Kripto wrote:
Why would you suspect and want to tie the hands of those who are just trying to protect you? if you hate freedom so much, why don't you move to Iran today?
Only when these so-called "rights" have been eliminated can our true freedoms be protected. You have to find the little crying patriot, hiding deep in your insides. Follow his heart, and then your heart, down the path to victory.
We should just abolish the constitution before we all get killed by terrorists. It is not a suicide pact because every second of every day is just a countdown to when we will all be brutally attacked and killed by terrorists. They are dark, murderous beast men, thirsty for your blood.Please tell me you're kidding.
I didn't even know people think like this.
Just because something is legal, doesn't mean it's right. Just because something is illegal, doesn't mean it's wrong.
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#19 2007-09-22 1:56 pm
- Tallgeese
- Sternly Advising
- From: Pool Party
- Registered: 2000-10-17
- Posts: 34080
Re: Yay, spying on Americans...
It's called sarcasm or satire.
I still believe in liberalism today as much as I ever did, but, oh, there was a happy time when I believed in liberals.
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#20 2007-09-22 2:44 pm
- bedstuy
- Archimandrite, Eastern Elite
- From: King Cole Bar, St. Regis Hotel
- Registered: 2003-09-20
- Posts: 13623
Re: Yay, spying on Americans...
Farmerkev wrote:
He probably reads Shicky's blog.
I thought THIS place was his blog.
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#21 2007-09-22 3:28 pm
Re: Yay, spying on Americans...
Tallgeese wrote:
It's called sarcasm or satire.
i sincerely hope so.
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#22 2007-09-22 3:39 pm
- test
- Member
- From: Collingwood, Ont., CANADA
- Registered: 2002-12-13
- Posts: 5300
Re: Yay, spying on Americans...
Robert B. wrote:
you have nothing to fear if you've done nothing wrong.
That sounds potentially subversive. You just made the list.
Patience is a virtue of the weak for it makes them stand still long enough for the strong to crush them with ease.
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#23 2007-09-22 3:58 pm
- Fried Chicken
- Member
- From: Good question - keeps changing
- Registered: 2003-11-17
- Posts: 4557
Re: Yay, spying on Americans...
Tallgeese wrote:
It's called sarcasm or satire.
Please god I do hope so.
Just because something is legal, doesn't mean it's right. Just because something is illegal, doesn't mean it's wrong.
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#24 2007-09-22 8:10 pm
- Robert B.
- Reality Deficient
- From: The pit of despair
- Registered: 1999-03-09
- Posts: 10269
Re: Yay, spying on Americans...
test wrote:
Robert B. wrote:
you have nothing to fear if you've done nothing wrong.
That sounds potentially subversive. You just made the list.
Oh, I'm on several lists, believe me.
"Evil will always triumph because Good is dumb."
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#25 2007-09-22 8:13 pm
Re: Yay, spying on Americans...
Pariah wrote:
I absolutely guarantee that every single snooping and invasive power given to fight "terrorism" today will be a routine law enforcement tactic in 10 years.
Once a precedent is set, once an exception is made for one single crime, it will always spread till it is universally applied.
Kind of like federal taxes, originally only issued to fund a war - but never retracted, eh?
Last edited by resedit (2007-09-22 8:16 pm)
In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor
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