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#51 2007-10-26 11:00 am
- user
- Your plastic pal who's fun to be with
- From: I'm not getting you down, am I
- Registered: 2001-10-15
- Posts: 16035
Re: Will the rhetoric swap if the Dems win in '08?
Staying away from the polls won't change a damn thing. The party with the most votes will claim victory and march into office with a smile, no matter how low the turn-out is.
Aw, he's no fun, he fell right over.
Unless you become as little children, there's no way you will believe this crap.
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#52 2007-10-26 11:02 am
- ShnickyShnack
- ::: title edited due to Satanic influences :::
- From: Rockin' out
- Registered: 2001-05-25
- Posts: 22237
Re: Will the rhetoric swap if the Dems win in '08?
bullsmurf, a party put in power with five or ten percent of the electorate won't have a mandate to govern.
Then there's the grassroots level of the two parties, who wield tremendous potential power but don't use it, again reverting to an obedient, top-down structure.
Last edited by ShnickyShnack (2007-10-26 11:02 am)
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#53 2007-10-26 11:58 am
- user
- Your plastic pal who's fun to be with
- From: I'm not getting you down, am I
- Registered: 2001-10-15
- Posts: 16035
Re: Will the rhetoric swap if the Dems win in '08?
They'll govern, mandate or not. Look what Bush did.
Aw, he's no fun, he fell right over.
Unless you become as little children, there's no way you will believe this crap.
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#54 2007-10-26 12:08 pm
- bratboy
- laden with emotion
- Royal Wombat
- From: Austin, Texas
- Registered: 2003-01-19
- Posts: 34106
Re: Will the rhetoric swap if the Dems win in '08?
There is certainly no requirement of a "mandate."
"One thing we've learned is there's a difference between being disappointed and having madmen in authority."
--Paul Krugman
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#55 2007-10-26 12:11 pm
- user
- Your plastic pal who's fun to be with
- From: I'm not getting you down, am I
- Registered: 2001-10-15
- Posts: 16035
Re: Will the rhetoric swap if the Dems win in '08?
I know.
I'll start a smurfing blog. That oughta change things.
Aw, he's no fun, he fell right over.
Unless you become as little children, there's no way you will believe this crap.
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#56 2007-10-26 12:21 pm
- Jaligard
- Sarcasm is just one service I offer.
- Registered: 2001-02-03
- Posts: 5199
Re: Will the rhetoric swap if the Dems win in '08?
Farmerkev wrote:
I could literally fill pages with example after example from just the last 10 years.
Corruption, bias and bad apples are in the eye of the beholder.
At least those not looking at it with biased eyes.
You could and that's why your argument is difficult to counter.
But it's still not symmetrical.
At this moment in time—and it will change down the road—the Republicans are—as a whole—an order of magnitude more corrupt than the Democrats. We could match your pages of Democratic corruption tenfold. Easily.
George Bush: "If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator."
George Bush: "One of the hardest parts of my job is to try to connect Iraq to the war on terror."
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#57 2007-10-26 12:31 pm
- Jaligard
- Sarcasm is just one service I offer.
- Registered: 2001-02-03
- Posts: 5199
Re: Will the rhetoric swap if the Dems win in '08?
ShnickyShnack wrote:
Yep.
Pro-Demmies are enjoying blaming Republicans for the grotesque shambles Washington is in today. But did Democrats try and stop any of it?
Some did.
ShnickyShnack wrote:
Did they try to avert a war they knew was going to be a disaster?
Some did.
ShnickyShnack wrote:
Did they try to hold the line on spending?
Some did.
ShnickyShnack wrote:
Did they attempt to prevent the Patriot Act from being passed, and then renewed?
Some did the first time and even more tried the second time.
ShnickyShnack wrote:
Did they make any effort to block any of the legislation that's made things so Godawful?
Yes.
ShnickyShnack wrote:
I know it's comforting to blame it all on the Repubs, but from where I sit that's pretty damn weak.
I maintain that Democratic support for pernicious Republican policies for many years strongly indicates what they'll do if they win the White House too.
To wit: more of the same.
Ironically I'd be willing to bet the Republicans will be a lot tougher in opposition than the Democrats ever were.
My rant on Democrats is at least as long as it is on the Republicans. They need to show that they have the courage of their convictions (first, they need to get the courage of their convictions).
But equating the two of them on how corrupt they are is ridiculous.
The two parties do have different values and those values will lead to different poliicies. One of those values (individualism) prevents the Dems from moving in the same lock-step that Republicans do. You will see Democrats criticize their president because Democrats are just like that. You won't see Democrats appointing the same protect-the-administration-at-all-costs people to the Justice Department and other agencies because they don't think that way. When Democrats make a TV network, it won't work like Fox News because they don't have a hierarchy ingrained into their way of life.
Their problems are just as innumerable as the Republicans problems, but they are not the same problems.
George Bush: "If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator."
George Bush: "One of the hardest parts of my job is to try to connect Iraq to the war on terror."
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#58 2007-10-26 12:39 pm
- Beagle/Bro.
- Sally Tally/Bookeeper
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- Registered: 2006-10-03
- Posts: 2074
- Website
Re: Will the rhetoric swap if the Dems win in '08?
...even if it's just in the form of a catastrophically low turnout come November.
Hence my comments all over the place around here about the leadup process and 'the natives are restless.'
I see nothing but doom and gloom. We'll forfeit the voting franchise en mass; voluntarily (and by other less savory means, in my view.) Leaving the status quo to further deteriorate.
(One traditional analysis that would hold, in that case, would be that low turnout is bad for D.)
"I am...operational...my circuits are functioning.."
http://www.wisdomquotes.com/002921.html
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." -->> HST
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#59 2007-10-26 12:52 pm
- sturner
- Royal High Poobah
- Moderator
- From: Carrollton, TX USA
- Registered: 2000-01-31
- Posts: 13816
Re: Will the rhetoric swap if the Dems win in '08?
To the barricades!!!!
I'm not dead yet.
There are 3 types of people, those who can count and those who can't.
"There are few things graven in stone, excepting your date of death."
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#60 2007-10-26 12:55 pm
- bratboy
- laden with emotion
- Royal Wombat
- From: Austin, Texas
- Registered: 2003-01-19
- Posts: 34106
Re: Will the rhetoric swap if the Dems win in '08?
Jaligard wrote:
Some did.
I'm sorry, but you only have two choices: Condemn the whole lot of them or offer a ringing endorsement of everything they've done.
"One thing we've learned is there's a difference between being disappointed and having madmen in authority."
--Paul Krugman
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#61 2007-10-26 1:42 pm
- ShnickyShnack
- ::: title edited due to Satanic influences :::
- From: Rockin' out
- Registered: 2001-05-25
- Posts: 22237
Re: Will the rhetoric swap if the Dems win in '08?
"Some did," eh?
Guess what, some Republicans did too. So let's stop criticizing them, shall we?
Yeah, right.
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#62 2007-10-26 2:02 pm
- bratboy
- laden with emotion
- Royal Wombat
- From: Austin, Texas
- Registered: 2003-01-19
- Posts: 34106
Re: Will the rhetoric swap if the Dems win in '08?
I believe you'll find that "some Republicans" received praise in those situations.
"One thing we've learned is there's a difference between being disappointed and having madmen in authority."
--Paul Krugman
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#63 2007-10-26 2:05 pm
- ShnickyShnack
- ::: title edited due to Satanic influences :::
- From: Rockin' out
- Registered: 2001-05-25
- Posts: 22237
Re: Will the rhetoric swap if the Dems win in '08?
Then I take it you object to any lumping together of Republicans when criticizing current policies?
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#64 2007-10-26 2:11 pm
- bratboy
- laden with emotion
- Royal Wombat
- From: Austin, Texas
- Registered: 2003-01-19
- Posts: 34106
Re: Will the rhetoric swap if the Dems win in '08?
He wasn't instructing you to "stop criticizing" anyone, but pointing out that this equivalency line you've been pushing for the past few months is bunk.
"One thing we've learned is there's a difference between being disappointed and having madmen in authority."
--Paul Krugman
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#65 2007-10-26 2:16 pm
- ShnickyShnack
- ::: title edited due to Satanic influences :::
- From: Rockin' out
- Registered: 2001-05-25
- Posts: 22237
Re: Will the rhetoric swap if the Dems win in '08?
Well help me out here, I'm trying to figure out your reasoning.
Is it okay to blame a party and its members for that party's policies, or is it important to always note the existence of dissenters?
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#66 2007-10-26 2:16 pm
- Jaligard
- Sarcasm is just one service I offer.
- Registered: 2001-02-03
- Posts: 5199
Re: Will the rhetoric swap if the Dems win in '08?
ShnickyShnack wrote:
Then I take it you object to any lumping together of Republicans when criticizing current policies?
It's not like we're profiling them at the airports or forcing them to drink from a separate water fountain here.
They've grouped themselves together as Republicans. They have a platform. These are their policies.
Heck, even most of the Republicans in Congress who criticize Bush's war efforts still go to bat for him when the votes are up.
George Bush: "If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator."
George Bush: "One of the hardest parts of my job is to try to connect Iraq to the war on terror."
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#67 2007-10-26 2:17 pm
- Jaligard
- Sarcasm is just one service I offer.
- Registered: 2001-02-03
- Posts: 5199
Re: Will the rhetoric swap if the Dems win in '08?
ShnickyShnack wrote:
Well help me out here, I'm trying to figure out your reasoning.
Is it okay to blame a party and its members for that party's policies, or is it important to always note the existence of dissenters?
Why not both?
George Bush: "If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator."
George Bush: "One of the hardest parts of my job is to try to connect Iraq to the war on terror."
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#68 2007-10-26 2:25 pm
- bratboy
- laden with emotion
- Royal Wombat
- From: Austin, Texas
- Registered: 2003-01-19
- Posts: 34106
Re: Will the rhetoric swap if the Dems win in '08?
ShnickyShnack wrote:
Well help me out here, I'm trying to figure out your reasoning.
Is it okay to blame a party and its members for that party's policies, or is it important to always note the existence of dissenters?
The existence of "dissenters" (in many cases, a majority of the Democratic votes in Congress) are mentioned because of the repeated shrieks alleging that they're 'exactly the same!'
When choosing the lesser of two evils, voters tend to go with those that are most closely aligned with their views. I'll take the party that musters 215 votes to withdraw from Iraq over that which musters 2.
"One thing we've learned is there's a difference between being disappointed and having madmen in authority."
--Paul Krugman
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#69 2007-10-31 6:49 pm
- Yellowfin
- Member
- From: Temporarily hostage of the PRK
- Registered: 2005-01-05
- Posts: 595
Re: Will the rhetoric swap if the Dems win in '08?
Pariah wrote:
Yeah, that right there is one of the better things about Dems. They don't march in Leninist lockstep like the Reps do.
Uhm...am I not seeing what you're seeing? Since when is it that the Dems don't march in lockstep on:
racial issues
anti gun legislation
term limits
abortion
suppression of religion
tort reform
censorship of anything not liberal
investigating ANYONE appointed by and/or working for Bush or any Republican on a nonstop, 24/7 basis
illegal immigration
voter fraud
unconditional support of ANYONE in the Dem party at all costs no matter if they just killed their own mother and ate her on a bed of rice????
If Republicans could accomplish 1% of that kind of party discipline they wouldn't have lost the Congress...heck, they'd NEVER lose an election ANYWHERE if they could do that.
Last edited by Yellowfin (2007-10-31 6:51 pm)
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#70 2007-10-31 6:54 pm
- ShnickyShnack
- ::: title edited due to Satanic influences :::
- From: Rockin' out
- Registered: 2001-05-25
- Posts: 22237
Re: Will the rhetoric swap if the Dems win in '08?
Yellowfin wrote:
Pariah wrote:
Yeah, that right there is one of the better things about Dems. They don't march in Leninist lockstep like the Reps do.
Uhm...am I not seeing what you're seeing? Since when is it that the Dems don't march in lockstep on:
racial issues
anti gun legislation
term limits
abortion
suppression of religion
tort reform
censorship of anything not liberal
investigating ANYONE appointed by and/or working for Bush or any Republican on a nonstop, 24/7 basis
illegal immigration
voter fraud
unconditional support of ANYONE in the Dem party at all costs no matter if they just killed their own mother and ate her on a bed of rice????
If Republicans could accomplish 1% of that kind of party discipline they wouldn't have lost the Congress...heck, they'd NEVER lose an election ANYWHERE if they could do that.
Wow.
That's all I can say when I look at that list.
Just ...
Wow.
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#71 2007-10-31 7:36 pm
- Pariah
- James Carville Fan..
- From: Belly Of The Beast, Oklahoma!
- Registered: 2001-05-24
- Posts: 18421
Re: Will the rhetoric swap if the Dems win in '08?
Yellowfin wrote:
Pariah wrote:
Yeah, that right there is one of the better things about Dems. They don't march in Leninist lockstep like the Reps do.
Uhm...am I not seeing what you're seeing? Since when is it that the Dems don't march in lockstep on:
racial issues
anti gun legislation
term limits
abortion
suppression of religion
tort reform
censorship of anything not liberal
investigating ANYONE appointed by and/or working for Bush or any Republican on a nonstop, 24/7 basis
illegal immigration
voter fraud
unconditional support of ANYONE in the Dem party at all costs no matter if they just killed their own mother and ate her on a bed of rice????
If Republicans could accomplish 1% of that kind of party discipline they wouldn't have lost the Congress...heck, they'd NEVER lose an election ANYWHERE if they could do that.
Man, yo crazy 
"and it's not surprising that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
Barack Obama
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#72 2007-10-31 7:55 pm
- Beagle/Bro.
- Sally Tally/Bookeeper
- From: AppleWorks Plug-ins/Hacks
- Registered: 2006-10-03
- Posts: 2074
- Website
Re: Will the rhetoric swap if the Dems win in '08?
Pariah wrote:
Yellowfin wrote:
Pariah wrote:
Yeah, that right there is one of the better things about Dems. They don't march in Leninist lockstep like the Reps do.
Uhm...am I not seeing what you're seeing? Since when is it that the Dems don't march in lockstep on:
racial issues
anti gun legislation
term limits
abortion
suppression of religion
tort reform
censorship of anything not liberal
investigating ANYONE appointed by and/or working for Bush or any Republican on a nonstop, 24/7 basis
illegal immigration
voter fraud
unconditional support of ANYONE in the Dem party at all costs no matter if they just killed their own mother and ate her on a bed of rice????
If Republicans could accomplish 1% of that kind of party discipline they wouldn't have lost the Congress...heck, they'd NEVER lose an election ANYWHERE if they could do that.Man, yo crazy
Obviously not acquainted with this site:
http://www.bluedogdems.com/
See how their votes are 'lock-stepped'...
...with Bush.
Last edited by Beagle/Bro. (2007-10-31 7:56 pm)
"I am...operational...my circuits are functioning.."
http://www.wisdomquotes.com/002921.html
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." -->> HST
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#73 2007-11-01 12:32 am
- Hank Rearden
- Watch your step
- From: Republic of Western Canada
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Re: Will the rhetoric swap if the Dems win in '08?
BTW, I think that the thread title could be changed to "Will the rhetoric swap when Hillary wins in '08?"
The gross heathenism of civilization has generally destroyed nature, and poetry, and all that is spiritual. -John Muir-
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#74 2007-11-01 6:22 am
- Farmerkev
- Official Dementor
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Re: Will the rhetoric swap if the Dems win in '08?
Hank Rearden wrote:
BTW, I think that the thread title could be changed to "Will the rhetoric swap when Hillary wins in '08?"
After her pathetic performance in the last debate I'm not sure.
Do your part to combat global warming.
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#75 2007-11-01 8:42 am
- ShnickyShnack
- ::: title edited due to Satanic influences :::
- From: Rockin' out
- Registered: 2001-05-25
- Posts: 22237
Re: Will the rhetoric swap if the Dems win in '08?
Hank Rearden wrote:
BTW, I think that the thread title could be changed to "Will the rhetoric swap when Hillary wins in '08?"
Never underestimate the capacity of the Dems to execute a catastrophic choke.
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