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#51 2007-12-03 4:49 am
- reece_james
- TheLAD

- From: Wollongong, Australia.
- Registered: 2001-12-01
- Posts: 3790
- Website
Re: Leopard is the New Vista, and It's Pissing Me Off
Although it's borderline trolling, I'd like to see Czachorski's rebuttal to the above. Would make for some interesting reading.
Daniel, most people on this forum realise that the Apple support forums are generally not the best place on the web to ask for help. Balloon help here is pretty good.
As for anyone with issues. Time to relearn basic troubleshooting. Start unplugging devices till the issue goes away. I have heard of RAM issues on Leopard. Apple installed nonetheless.
Reece [/IMHO]
"All posts on the internet are postfixed by an invisible 'IMHO'", tito
Intel iMac CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 17" + 20", 1160GB HD, 10.5.2.
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#52 2007-12-03 5:33 am
Re: Leopard is the New Vista, and It's Pissing Me Off
Additional update: Halo will not run under Leopard, apparently. If I discover that X-Plane is broken too, I'm going to be really pissed.
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#53 2007-12-03 5:34 am
- rufio
- Let the funeral start, hear the casket close...

- From: texas/ohio
- Registered: 2003-10-26
- Posts: 2261
Re: Leopard is the New Vista, and It's Pissing Me Off
Daniel wrote:
rufio wrote:
Spotlight lets you quicklaunch things so easily now, Command-Space, type in Safari, just press return, and you've launched it.
You could do that in Tiger as well, and in my experience, it actually worked better in Tiger. In Leopard, Spotlight crashes 3 out of every 5 times I use it, and it doesn't even come close to keeping up with my typing when I type into the search box -- a problem Tiger did not have.
Yes, you can do this in Tiger, but in Tiger the "Top Hit" as it's called is not the automatically selected one, so it's really command-space, type in safari, down arrow, then press return to launch it. One keystroke eliminated is cool for me.
"Outside of this forum
everything is second after first."
-pcguy
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#54 2007-12-03 8:32 am
- frankly
- Greetings Citizens!

- Registered: 2000-09-16
- Posts: 5103
Re: Leopard is the New Vista, and It's Pissing Me Off
rufio wrote:
I have no experience or interest in Time Machine, Spaces, Dashboard, Cover Flow in the finder, mail stationary, video chat effects, photo booth backdrops, stacks, boot camp, "quicklook," or the advertised parental controls.
I'm curious. Why did you upgrade then???
Frank
xkcd: Listen to Yourself
There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't.
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#55 2007-12-03 8:36 am
- frankly
- Greetings Citizens!

- Registered: 2000-09-16
- Posts: 5103
Re: Leopard is the New Vista, and It's Pissing Me Off
Daniel wrote:
rufio wrote:
Spotlight lets you quicklaunch things so easily now, Command-Space, type in Safari, just press return, and you've launched it.
You could do that in Tiger as well, and in my experience, it actually worked better in Tiger. In Leopard, Spotlight crashes 3 out of every 5 times I use it, and it doesn't even come close to keeping up with my typing when I type into the search box -- a problem Tiger did not have.
As rufio said, no, it didn't. Under Leopard the Spotlight menu is set by default to float the top hit in the Application category to the top of the list. Under Tiger an application MIGHT have made it to the top of the list but a document might just as easily have made it there.
Frank
Last edited by frankly (2007-12-03 8:39 am)
xkcd: Listen to Yourself
There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't.
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#56 2007-12-03 8:38 am
- frankly
- Greetings Citizens!

- Registered: 2000-09-16
- Posts: 5103
Re: Leopard is the New Vista, and It's Pissing Me Off
Daniel wrote:
Additional update: Halo will not run under Leopard, apparently. If I discover that X-Plane is broken too, I'm going to be really pissed.
Now I'm really confused. If you have applications that will really piss you off if you are unable to run them, why in the hell would you have even upgraded to a new OS without making sure the things you use are compatible??? That makes no logical sense whatsoever.
Damn you Apple for forcing me to pay you $129 and upgrade to your new operating system!!!!! :shakes fist:
Frank
xkcd: Listen to Yourself
There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't.
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#57 2007-12-03 9:06 am
- Gurlugon
- I'm feeling lucky

- From: PBR Street Gang
- Registered: 2003-07-07
- Posts: 1220
Re: Leopard is the New Vista, and It's Pissing Me Off
Tiger's fine enough on my eMac, albeit a little sluggish. Leopard will most likely have too much bloat for what I use that thing for.
XP with the SP3 beta is fine, I don't even want to venture into Vista with all the smurf I've heard about it.
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#58 2007-12-03 9:24 am
Re: Leopard is the New Vista, and It's Pissing Me Off
frankly wrote:
Daniel wrote:
Additional update: Halo will not run under Leopard, apparently. If I discover that X-Plane is broken too, I'm going to be really pissed.
Now I'm really confused. If you have applications that will really piss you off if you are unable to run them, why in the hell would you have even upgraded to a new OS without making sure the things you use are compatible??? That makes no logical sense whatsoever.
Damn you Apple for forcing me to pay you $129 and upgrade to your new operating system!!!!! :shakes fist:
Frank
There is no mention of Halo not being compatible with Leopard anywhere, not on MacSoft's site, not on Apple's. It's a game, one would expect something like that to not break.
Good on you for being a condescending ass about it, though.
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#59 2007-12-03 9:47 am
- frankly
- Greetings Citizens!

- Registered: 2000-09-16
- Posts: 5103
Re: Leopard is the New Vista, and It's Pissing Me Off
Daniel wrote:
frankly wrote:
Daniel wrote:
Additional update: Halo will not run under Leopard, apparently. If I discover that X-Plane is broken too, I'm going to be really pissed.
Now I'm really confused. If you have applications that will really piss you off if you are unable to run them, why in the hell would you have even upgraded to a new OS without making sure the things you use are compatible??? That makes no logical sense whatsoever.
Damn you Apple for forcing me to pay you $129 and upgrade to your new operating system!!!!! :shakes fist:
FrankThere is no mention of Halo not being compatible with Leopard anywhere, not on MacSoft's site, not on Apple's. It's a game, one would expect something like that to not break.
Good on you for being a condescending ass about it, though.
I wasn't being condescending. I was being absolutely serious. It is common knowledge that if you have apps that you need or want to use that you should not upgrade unless you know they are good to go.
Second, are you joking? Games are one of the things that break most often with system upgrades. Game distributors are known for moving on to the next version and not releasing (or being very slow to release) maintenance upgrades. Higher end games (like Halo) are especially susceptible to this because the more power a game needs the more it tends to include low level programming that is dependent on certain system calls or video card drivers. So your statement that a game is not something one would expect to break is very telling. And for the record, that last statement was condescending 
Frank
Last edited by frankly (2007-12-03 9:48 am)
xkcd: Listen to Yourself
There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't.
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#60 2007-12-03 10:12 am
- dv
- Negusa Negest
- Moderator

- From: Minneapolis, MN
- Registered: 1999-08-30
- Posts: 18093
Re: Leopard is the New Vista, and It's Pissing Me Off
Say, Dan - what kind of nVidia card do you have? I heard some complaints about flashed ones, anyways.
My Radeon 9600 works fine with WoW. Haven't tried Halo since I have it for the PC, and don't play X-Plane though. Still, Leopard hasn't broken a damn thing for me. I miss folders in the dock (although I kept tiger on my lappy since that's where I use them mostly) but overall, it hasn't been a bad upgrade at all. 1 kernel panic after about a week, nothing since.
I also haven't noticed whether or not my menu bar is transparent. I have a solid blue background image. Pretty pictures are nice for screensavers, but they make my eyes confused when I'm doing stuff. I'll tae y'all's word for it that it's transparent thought. Honestly hadn't noticed.
"Now commences the process of cutting off the head, which generally takes from an hour to an hour and a half by an expert workman with a sharp blade." -Reuben Delano, Wanderings and Adventures
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#61 2007-12-03 10:14 am
Re: Leopard is the New Vista, and It's Pissing Me Off
I've got an nVidia GeForce4Ti 4600, with an ADC connector. It's not a flashed PC-version card.
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#62 2007-12-03 5:23 pm
- Czachorski
- Member

- Registered: 2002-12-20
- Posts: 5591
Re: Leopard is the New Vista, and It's Pissing Me Off
reece_james wrote:
Although it's borderline trolling, I'd like to see Czachorski's rebuttal to the above. Would make for some interesting reading.
What's to rebut? He's drawing general conclusions about the OS from his own anecdotal experiences, and backing it up with evidence of unanswered posts from a forum designed to solve problems.
Frank nailed it - I wasn't disputing that there are problems, some are big, and some are unsolved. I was pointing out the flaw of drawing general conclusions about the OS solely from those observations, especially in the face of excellent coverage by the media and overwhelming positive experiences from many other users, just as Frank so eloquently put it. Not much for me to add beyond Frank's good points.
Thanks Frank. 
Tracking the Tech
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#63 2007-12-03 8:00 pm
- iThinkIam
- Banned
- Registered: 2007-03-19
- Posts: 409
Re: Leopard is the New Vista, and It's Pissing Me Off
Daniel wrote:
I've got an nVidia GeForce4Ti 4600, with an ADC connector. It's not a flashed PC-version card.
From my personal experience on the PC end the GeForce4 cards have a GPU that is generally not very well supported anymore. You really need to bump up to at least a 5200.
I don't know much about your problem, but you might check to see if you are running OpenGL as I understand there have been a lot of quirks with it in Leopard on various cards.
"If you don't intend to respond [...], stay out of the discussion."
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#64 2007-12-04 12:24 am
- rufio
- Let the funeral start, hear the casket close...

- From: texas/ohio
- Registered: 2003-10-26
- Posts: 2261
Re: Leopard is the New Vista, and It's Pissing Me Off
frankly wrote:
rufio wrote:
I have no experience or interest in Time Machine, Spaces, Dashboard, Cover Flow in the finder, mail stationary, video chat effects, photo booth backdrops, stacks, boot camp, "quicklook," or the advertised parental controls.
I'm curious. Why did you upgrade then???
Frank
A hope of performance improvements. I installed it on a secondary computer as a test-run before I put it on my Macbook Pro.
That test run would hopefully have been a one or two-day event just to make sure everything was running fine, but I have been met with more problems than I want to inflict upon my main machine, so I am not upgrading anything important yet.
"Outside of this forum
everything is second after first."
-pcguy
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#65 2007-12-04 12:26 am
- frankly
- Greetings Citizens!

- Registered: 2000-09-16
- Posts: 5103
Re: Leopard is the New Vista, and It's Pissing Me Off
rufio wrote:
frankly wrote:
rufio wrote:
I have no experience or interest in Time Machine, Spaces, Dashboard, Cover Flow in the finder, mail stationary, video chat effects, photo booth backdrops, stacks, boot camp, "quicklook," or the advertised parental controls.
I'm curious. Why did you upgrade then???
FrankA hope of performance improvements. I installed it on a secondary computer as a test-run before I put it on my Macbook Pro.
That test run would hopefully have been a one or two-day event just to make sure everything was running fine, but I have been met with more problems than I want to inflict upon my main machine, so I am not upgrading anything important yet.
Not sure if it will help your decision process at all but I have it running on my MBP and I did see a performance increase and haven't had any problems that weren't superficial.
Frank
xkcd: Listen to Yourself
There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't.
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#66 2007-12-04 12:31 am
- bratboy
- laden with emotion
- Royal Wombat

- From: Austin, Texas
- Registered: 2003-01-19
- Posts: 34106
Re: Leopard is the New Vista, and It's Pissing Me Off
I've gotta say that I don't understand the 'stacks' icon. A folder should look like a folder, not a stack of icons with something random on top.
"One thing we've learned is there's a difference between being disappointed and having madmen in authority."
--Paul Krugman
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#67 2007-12-04 12:35 am
- FutureDreamz
- 1.1.2.3.5.8.13.21.34.55

- From: カナダ
- Registered: 2007-01-07
- Posts: 4511
Re: Leopard is the New Vista, and It's Pissing Me Off
bratboy wrote:
I've gotta say that I don't understand the 'stacks' icon. A folder should look like a folder, not a stack of icons with something random on top.
++
they should at least have a virtual "tray" with the folder's icon or something on it. Icons already are actually twopaks (include a preview icon for the sidebar of finder windows, etc.), so it shouldn't be too hard to give folders a dock icon.
Thanks for clicking.
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#68 2007-12-04 12:43 am
- iThinkIam
- Banned
- Registered: 2007-03-19
- Posts: 409
Re: Leopard is the New Vista, and It's Pissing Me Off
bratboy wrote:
I've gotta say that I don't understand the 'stacks' icon. A folder should look like a folder, not a stack of icons with something random on top.
Uh no, it should like the last item added as the is the default sort for that folder.
Change the sort or put in a placeholder alias or icon in the home folder and sort by name.
"If you don't intend to respond [...], stay out of the discussion."
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#69 2007-12-04 2:13 am
- bratboy
- laden with emotion
- Royal Wombat

- From: Austin, Texas
- Registered: 2003-01-19
- Posts: 34106
Re: Leopard is the New Vista, and It's Pissing Me Off
iThinkIam wrote:
Uh no, it should like the last item added as the is the default sort for that folder.
"Uh no," that's what it does look like but not what it should look like, in my opinion.
Change the sort or put in a placeholder alias or icon in the home folder and sort by name.
I know the workaround, but I believe the default is ugly and should offer some other way to view the "stack" (read: folder).
"One thing we've learned is there's a difference between being disappointed and having madmen in authority."
--Paul Krugman
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#70 2007-12-04 7:07 am
Re: Leopard is the New Vista, and It's Pissing Me Off
If you are talking an Apple implemented Stacks badge based on which folder was used I agree. For those who do not know what I'm talking about badges are like the alias, locked, no access, & drop box mini icons the OS lays upon certain files & folders under certain conditions.
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#71 2007-12-04 7:36 am
- avkills
- demyelinated brain matter

- Registered: 2001-05-09
- Posts: 7103
Re: Leopard is the New Vista, and It's Pissing Me Off
The way I see it, stacks should have 2 icons...one that means it is empty and another that shows it with something in it, neither one should hide what exactly the stack (folder) contains.
The current implementation is flawed.
-mark
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#72 2007-12-04 7:49 am
Re: Leopard is the New Vista, and It's Pissing Me Off
You mean two icons one for empty one for not empty like it does now, avkills?
When the Downloads folder stack is empty you see the download folder icon. When you add anything to that stack, it (and up to 2 other priority items) will replace the Download folder icon.
It works that same way with any folder based stack. Though it's far more useful a feature when you aren't using a folder with a generic icon.
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#73 2007-12-04 7:55 am
- avkills
- demyelinated brain matter

- Registered: 2001-05-09
- Posts: 7103
Re: Leopard is the New Vista, and It's Pissing Me Off
ScifiterX wrote:
::Drowns avkill's pet rock:: You mean like now?
When the Downloads folder stack is empty you see the download folder icon. When you add anything to that stack it (and up to 2 other priority items) replace the Download folder icon
No they need to keep the downloads folder, but change it a bit so you know that something is in the folder, like open it a bit and make it look like a sheet of paper is in there or something, or better yet, do what mail does and slap a red circle thingie and put a number on it.
I think it is idiotic to change the icon on the dock to the alphabetically first "item's" icon.
-mark
Last edited by avkills (2007-12-04 7:56 am)
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#74 2007-12-04 8:05 am
Re: Leopard is the New Vista, and It's Pissing Me Off
Heh caught the edit. I meant it more in a sorry to disillusion you context but thought maybe it was too much after a reading it.
Also that may have been what you meant but it wasn't what came across in that previous post of yours. I quite agree with the most recent post however and think using the badge system like I think Bratboy is suggesting is the way to do it. When empty I think it should of course only show the default icon for the folder. When not empty it should still show the preview icons of what is in there but with the sidebar mini icon as a badge and without the need for any hacking.
I also think right/control clicking the stack to access the old hierarchical popup menu system is a good idea.
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#75 2007-12-04 10:00 am
Re: Leopard is the New Vista, and It's Pissing Me Off
iThinkIam wrote:
Daniel wrote:
I've got an nVidia GeForce4Ti 4600, with an ADC connector. It's not a flashed PC-version card.
From my personal experience on the PC end the GeForce4 cards have a GPU that is generally not very well supported anymore. You really need to bump up to at least a 5200.
I don't know much about your problem, but you might check to see if you are running OpenGL as I understand there have been a lot of quirks with it in Leopard on various cards.
Well, the only card I can obtain that would be worth the money spent to get it would be the high-end Radeon 9800 (or is it 9600? I can't recall). But, being presently unemployed, I'm not going to go blow $300 on a video card to get WoW to work -- and even if I did have the money, I'm reluctant to dump more money into this relatively old machine.
I do know that my WoW problem is not specific to the nVidia 4600, it's a problem with all nVidia cards on all PPC machines. Blizzard is aware of the problem but says it's a driver issue that Apple and nVidia must fix.
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