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#1 2008-01-05 3:00 pm
- jeremiah256
- Big Black Kahuna
- From: Honolulu HI, U.S.A.
- Registered: 2001-06-29
- Posts: 814
NH GOP Stands Up To Fox Concerning Anti-War Candidate Exclusion
It's nice seeing the locals fight back against the MSM's attempt to dictate who is or who is not a 'real' candidate.
... Already long ago, from when we sold our vote to no man, the People have abdicated our duties; for the People who once upon a time handed out military command, high civil office, legions - everything, now restrains itself and anxiously hopes for just two things: bread and circuses - Juvenal
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#2 2008-01-05 4:18 pm
- bedstuy
- Archimandrite, Eastern Elite
- From: King Cole Bar, St. Regis Hotel
- Registered: 2003-09-20
- Posts: 13628
Re: NH GOP Stands Up To Fox Concerning Anti-War Candidate Exclusion
Ron Paul is polling 3rd in NH. It's absurd for him to be excluded. But hey, it's Fox!
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#3 2008-01-05 4:42 pm
Re: NH GOP Stands Up To Fox Concerning Anti-War Candidate Exclusion
Did anybody at Fox say it was because of his war position, or is that assumption?
In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor
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#4 2008-01-05 4:49 pm
Re: NH GOP Stands Up To Fox Concerning Anti-War Candidate Exclusion
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/10/ … nSTCOther1
It looks like Ron Paul nationwide is at 6% and in 6th place.
The article noted that Guliani is included -
For example, Paul got 10% of the vote in Iowa, while invited candidate Rudy Giuliani took only 4% and is at about the same place as Paul in New Hampshire polls.
Notice how they conveniently fail to mention that Guliani is still #1 in the national polls.
This is a nothing issue.
Sure, NH can pull their support - and I have no problem with them doing so.
But that Fox News is excluding him is a nothing issue. He's a nobody in the #6 spot nationwide. If he wants to be in the debates, he needs to market himself better and gain some support.
In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor
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#5 2008-01-05 4:51 pm
- jeremiah256
- Big Black Kahuna
- From: Honolulu HI, U.S.A.
- Registered: 2001-06-29
- Posts: 814
Re: NH GOP Stands Up To Fox Concerning Anti-War Candidate Exclusion
resedit wrote:
Did anybody at Fox say it was because of his war position, or is that assumption?
Regardless of Fox's reason, his numbers in Iowa were better than Giuliani's. National polls do and will change as each state votes in their caucuses/primaries. Giuliani's numbers are potential. Paul's are real.
... Already long ago, from when we sold our vote to no man, the People have abdicated our duties; for the People who once upon a time handed out military command, high civil office, legions - everything, now restrains itself and anxiously hopes for just two things: bread and circuses - Juvenal
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#6 2008-01-05 4:54 pm
Re: NH GOP Stands Up To Fox Concerning Anti-War Candidate Exclusion
Fox broadcasts to a national audience and therefore needs to have the candidates that national viewers give a flying smurf about.
In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor
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#7 2008-01-05 4:56 pm
- Farmerkev
- Official Dementor
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Re: NH GOP Stands Up To Fox Concerning Anti-War Candidate Exclusion
resedit wrote:
Fox broadcasts to a national audience and therefore needs to have the candidates that national viewers give a flying smurf about.
No Rez, they need to present the news and not shape and determine who and what is newsworthy.
Fox and you are wrong about this.
Do your part to combat global warming.
Eat a cow.
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#8 2008-01-05 5:05 pm
Re: NH GOP Stands Up To Fox Concerning Anti-War Candidate Exclusion
They also have time constraints and if you include too many candidates, then the candidates people care about have diluted time to make their arguments and answer questions.
There's only so much time that fox can expect viewers to stay tuned in, they have to use that time to best serve the interests of the people.
A 6% poll means that there are more than 6% of the population interested in what he has to say, but it is still a minority with 5 candidates that are more interesting to the public than he is.
Regardless of whether they should include him though, his #6 standing in the national polls is probably the reason for his exclusion, not his position on the war as the thread suggests.
Last edited by resedit (2008-01-05 5:07 pm)
In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor
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#9 2008-01-05 5:06 pm
- bratboy
- laden with emotion
- Royal Wombat
- From: Austin, Texas
- Registered: 2003-01-19
- Posts: 34106
Re: NH GOP Stands Up To Fox Concerning Anti-War Candidate Exclusion
resedit wrote:
Fox broadcasts to a national audience and therefore needs to have the candidates that national viewers give a flying smurf about.
Wow, I really didn't think I'd see anyone defending this.
I stand corrected.
"One thing we've learned is there's a difference between being disappointed and having madmen in authority."
--Paul Krugman
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#10 2008-01-05 5:09 pm
Re: NH GOP Stands Up To Fox Concerning Anti-War Candidate Exclusion
It's simple logistics.
You either hear a lot from a few or a little from a lot.
What's the value of a little from a lot?
In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor
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#11 2008-01-05 5:13 pm
- bratboy
- laden with emotion
- Royal Wombat
- From: Austin, Texas
- Registered: 2003-01-19
- Posts: 34106
Re: NH GOP Stands Up To Fox Concerning Anti-War Candidate Exclusion
resedit wrote:
It's simple logistics.
You either hear a lot from a few or a little from a lot.
What's the value of a little from a lot?
It's a debate in New Hampshire for the New Hampshire primary. Paul is polling 3rd in New Hampshire--he's ahead of Huckabee, for christsake.
"One thing we've learned is there's a difference between being disappointed and having madmen in authority."
--Paul Krugman
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#12 2008-01-05 5:16 pm
Re: NH GOP Stands Up To Fox Concerning Anti-War Candidate Exclusion
bratboy wrote:
resedit wrote:
It's simple logistics.
You either hear a lot from a few or a little from a lot.
What's the value of a little from a lot?It's a debate in New Hampshire for the New Hampshire primary. Paul is polling 3rd in New Hampshire--he's ahead of Huckabee, for christsake.
And it is fine for the NH GOP to withdraw their funding.
I don't have a problem with that.
Fox is broadcasting the debate to a national audience, not just to New Hampshire.
The debate is happening in NH because that's where the next primary is, fox isn't doing the debate just for NH, they are doing it for a national audience and the benefit of people like me as far away as California.
In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor
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#13 2008-01-05 5:17 pm
Re: NH GOP Stands Up To Fox Concerning Anti-War Candidate Exclusion
I do have a problem though with the unsubstantiated claim that it is because of his position on the war when there is a much more logical explanation.
In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor
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#14 2008-01-05 5:22 pm
- bratboy
- laden with emotion
- Royal Wombat
- From: Austin, Texas
- Registered: 2003-01-19
- Posts: 34106
Re: NH GOP Stands Up To Fox Concerning Anti-War Candidate Exclusion
resedit wrote:
Fox is broadcasting the debate to a national audience, not just to New Hampshire.
The debate is happening in NH because that's where the next primary is, fox isn't doing the debate just for NH, they are doing it for a national audience and the benefit of people like me as far away as California.
The next primary is in New Hampshire. The debate is IN New Hampshire. Paul is polling above your golden boy in New Hampshire.
There is simply no defending the position that someone who is currently polling 3rd in New Hampshire does not deserve a place in a debate in New Hampshire immediately before the primary in New Hampshire.
"One thing we've learned is there's a difference between being disappointed and having madmen in authority."
--Paul Krugman
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#15 2008-01-05 5:27 pm
- jeremiah256
- Big Black Kahuna
- From: Honolulu HI, U.S.A.
- Registered: 2001-06-29
- Posts: 814
Re: NH GOP Stands Up To Fox Concerning Anti-War Candidate Exclusion
resedit wrote:
Fox is broadcasting the debate to a national audience, not just to New Hampshire.
The debate is happening in NH because that's where the next primary is, fox isn't doing the debate just for NH, they are doing it for a national audience and the benefit of people like me as far away as California.
Then maybe they should change their election motto to "You Decide...On What We Show You".
... Already long ago, from when we sold our vote to no man, the People have abdicated our duties; for the People who once upon a time handed out military command, high civil office, legions - everything, now restrains itself and anxiously hopes for just two things: bread and circuses - Juvenal
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#16 2008-01-05 5:27 pm
- after-life
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- Registered: 2003-12-25
- Posts: 2370
Re: NH GOP Stands Up To Fox Concerning Anti-War Candidate Exclusion
Res, national polls are meaningless right now. All they reflect is name recognition. Remember how Hillary was supposed to be able to coast to an easy victory? Most people just haven't paid much attention yet.
In the only state that has actually voted, he got 10%. And Iowa isn't exactly a libertarian state. And in states that are actually going to vote soon and people are paying attention, he's polling reasonably well. That shows he's actually a viable candidate.
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#17 2008-01-05 5:30 pm
- bratboy
- laden with emotion
- Royal Wombat
- From: Austin, Texas
- Registered: 2003-01-19
- Posts: 34106
Re: NH GOP Stands Up To Fox Concerning Anti-War Candidate Exclusion
Not to mention that he's raised more money and is polling better than Fred Thompson in New Hampshire, while only being a few percentage points behind him on recent national polls.
"One thing we've learned is there's a difference between being disappointed and having madmen in authority."
--Paul Krugman
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#18 2008-01-05 5:33 pm
- jerwin
- Sophist
- From: The Garden of Pure Ideology
- Registered: 2003-01-01
- Posts: 7067
Re: NH GOP Stands Up To Fox Concerning Anti-War Candidate Exclusion
resedit wrote:
Fox is broadcasting the debate to a national audience, not just to New Hampshire.
The debate is happening in NH because that's where the next primary is, fox isn't doing the debate just for NH, they are doing it for a national audience and the benefit of people like me as far away as California.
Wait your smurfing turn. This is New Hampshire's Primary. We're just gawking.
Some subjects actually enjoy pain, and withhold information they might otherwise have divulged in order to be punished.
Central Intelligence Agency. (1983). Human Resource Exploitation Training Manual
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#19 2008-01-05 6:04 pm
- ShnickyShnack
- ::: title edited due to Satanic influences :::
- From: Rockin' out
- Registered: 2001-05-25
- Posts: 22237
Re: NH GOP Stands Up To Fox Concerning Anti-War Candidate Exclusion
Why should Fox care about the time constraints on the candidates? They're supposed to be offering quality broadcasting to their audience, not making decisions on how they should be voting. Time per candidate is supposed to be the concern of the various campaigns.
Ron Paul has participated in lots of televised debates up till now ... why exclude him at this point? Why is it suddenly a problem?
But of course assuming happy motives to Fox seems a bit farfetched.
Note: please delete this post.
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#20 2008-01-05 6:08 pm
Re: NH GOP Stands Up To Fox Concerning Anti-War Candidate Exclusion
resedit wrote:
There's only so much time that fox can expect viewers to stay tuned in, they have to use that time to best serve the interests of the people.
16 hours of Brittney!
Seriously, ALL the news channels spend most of their time...filling up time, repeating the same talking points ad nauseum with the same guest commentators. Not to mention the cyclic repeats throughout the day.
They are not pressed for time at all.
Ho Eyo He Hum
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#21 2008-01-05 6:14 pm
Re: NH GOP Stands Up To Fox Concerning Anti-War Candidate Exclusion
after-life wrote:
Res, national polls are meaningless right now. All they reflect is name recognition. Remember how Hillary was supposed to be able to coast to an easy victory? Most people just haven't paid much attention yet.
In the only state that has actually voted, he got 10%. And Iowa isn't exactly a libertarian state. And in states that are actually going to vote soon and people are paying attention, he's polling reasonably well. That shows he's actually a viable candidate.
Fact is - with too many people, it is hard to remember who said what and it is difficult for anyone to go in depth on anything.
Debates with smaller numbers of people are almost always more informative better debates.
Fact is - national polls are meaningless with respect to who will win the nomination, but they say a lot of about who people want to know more about, and Ron Paul isn't it - just like Huckabee wasn't it just a few months ago.
In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor
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#22 2008-01-05 6:15 pm
- jeremiah256
- Big Black Kahuna
- From: Honolulu HI, U.S.A.
- Registered: 2001-06-29
- Posts: 814
Re: NH GOP Stands Up To Fox Concerning Anti-War Candidate Exclusion
Plus has Fox News posted a criteria, as ABC did in excluding candidates?
... Already long ago, from when we sold our vote to no man, the People have abdicated our duties; for the People who once upon a time handed out military command, high civil office, legions - everything, now restrains itself and anxiously hopes for just two things: bread and circuses - Juvenal
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#23 2008-01-05 6:17 pm
- jeremiah256
- Big Black Kahuna
- From: Honolulu HI, U.S.A.
- Registered: 2001-06-29
- Posts: 814
Re: NH GOP Stands Up To Fox Concerning Anti-War Candidate Exclusion
resedit wrote:
Fact is - national polls are meaningless with respect to who will win the nomination, but they say a lot of about who people want to know more about, and Ron Paul isn't it - just like Huckabee wasn't it just a few months ago.
But he was allowed to participate and his message (whether you or I agree) obviously struck a cord with people in Iowa and those donating to campaigns.
... Already long ago, from when we sold our vote to no man, the People have abdicated our duties; for the People who once upon a time handed out military command, high civil office, legions - everything, now restrains itself and anxiously hopes for just two things: bread and circuses - Juvenal
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#24 2008-01-05 6:24 pm
- jerwin
- Sophist
- From: The Garden of Pure Ideology
- Registered: 2003-01-01
- Posts: 7067
Re: NH GOP Stands Up To Fox Concerning Anti-War Candidate Exclusion
ABC wrote:
Candidates had to either place between first and fourth in Iowa, poll five percent or more in the latest New Hampshire surveys or poll five percent or higher in one of the latest national surveys.
You might as well have a national primary, if you're going to ignore local interests.
Some subjects actually enjoy pain, and withhold information they might otherwise have divulged in order to be punished.
Central Intelligence Agency. (1983). Human Resource Exploitation Training Manual
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#25 2008-01-05 6:29 pm
- after-life
- Member
- Registered: 2003-12-25
- Posts: 2370
Re: NH GOP Stands Up To Fox Concerning Anti-War Candidate Exclusion
resedit wrote:
Fact is - with too many people, it is hard to remember who said what and it is difficult for anyone to go in depth on anything.
Debates with smaller numbers of people are almost always more informative better debates.
Fact is - national polls are meaningless with respect to who will win the nomination, but they say a lot of about who people want to know more about, and Ron Paul isn't it - just like Huckabee wasn't it just a few months ago.
No, national polls this early mainly reflect whose name is better known.
Nationwide, Ron Paul isn't well-known compared to the other candidates, even though he's popular online. But in the states that he has actually campaigned in, and people have gotten to know who he is, he's done reasonably well. That shows he's a viable candidate.
All viable candidates ought to be included in the debates.
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