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frankly wrote:

Alien wrote:

The 12" PowerBook was both cheaper and richer in features. And it could replace a desktop; I know several people who used one as their sole computer.

,xtG
.tsooJ

Really???

PowerBook G4 (12-inch)
Introduced: January 2003
Discontinued: September 2003
Order Number: M8760LL/A
Initial Price: $1,799 USD
Processor Speed: 867 MHz

Are you making assumptions?

I still run a 12" PowerBook as my main computer - and it has replaced a desktop.   I've upped the RAM, given it a bigger HD when the original failed, and installed a Superdrive.   This computer runs everything at home and works hard out on the road and powers up client computers when they go belly up.   It is a very capable machine, whether you like it or not

Don't be dissin' my 12" er

But the Air will not be able to replace my PowerBook.   It will work alongside it, but it wont replace it... not immediately.   I am figuring out how it can, but then I end up asking why I don't just buy a MacBook Pro instead.   It's almost like I'm trying to find a reason to buy the Air, which is just plain stupid.

Last edited by Blandford Fly (2008-01-16 2:18 pm)

frankly wrote:

jetson wrote:

frankly wrote:

2) Your analysis of the top end price point is pretty silly at this point. The simple fact is that Solid State storage is VERY EXPENSIVE right now. Macmall has a 64GB Solid State device for the small fee of $2449....

http://www.macmall.com/macmall/shop/det … d%20Drives

So give Apple a break with that model right now. Let's focus the price discussion on the hard drive model.

Frank

My point is that the cost of putting a "smaller" drive into a laptop, and charging a very high premium for it severely limits the consumer demand.  It is difficult for the average consumer to see an advantage to having it.  How do you explain the price difference and advantage of SS versus mechanical drive to someone?   The cost of HDD is going down drastically right now - and here we have a SS version, with less storage (the only purpose of the device), and it suddenly costs much, much more?  Confusing, and most people won't buy it - unless they can somehow be convinced that the mechanical HD is a dinosaur and their data is not safe unless it is on a new SS HD.

But then again, I'm only in my first week of economics, so I'm sure I have no idea what I'm talking about - really.

Wow, so many strange assumptions it is hard to know where to start.

1) There are some people that will want and will pay for the solid state storage.
2) Apple designed the system so that they could easily move to solid state only when the price comes down.
3) I think it is ridiculous to speculate that people won't buy the MacBook Air at all because they are confused as to why the version with the smaller storage costs more money.
4) Your contention that the only purpose of a hard drive is storage shows your lack of knowledge. The fact is that there are other factors to consider when purchasing a laptop hard drive. If you want a faster spindle speed it is going to give you faster access but it is going to take more power. Well, the solid state device give you much faster speed and uses LESS power. It is that easy to explain it to someone. Then they can decide if they want to be on the bleeding edge of this new technology and blow $1000 for it.
5) Your statement about somehow convincing them that their data is not safe on a HD would be what most people call lying and is completely unnecessary here.
6) It seems like you are acting as though Apple must sell the MBA model with the solid state device, as if selling the hard drive model is a loser for them. I'm really not following you here. The fact is that most people won't buy the solid state device and Apple already knows that. However, for those that want it, it is nice to have the option.

The fact is that for years laptops have had more expensive storage options that offered less storage. Granted, the price difference wasn't as dramatic. However, right now on the MBP page you can configure the following hard drive options:

250GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm [Add $150]
200GB Serial ATA Drive @ 7200 rpm [Add $200]

People aren't as stupid or helpless as you make them out to be. I don't contend that most people know what a solid state storage device is but I do contend that they are smart enough to be able to either read about it or ask someone.

Frank

I am not an expert on computers.  Hopefully that will satisfy your need to correct my stupididty on the topics.  Having said that, my opinion is that the price is too high.  You cannot justify it to me, or many other smart consumers, no matter what you say.

frankly wrote:

Jasoco wrote:

I'm curious to know, how instant loading are we talking with SSD? Like, how much faster will everything boot and start and stuff. I can't wait for someone to do the first benchmarks between an HD based Air and an SSD based one.

Still, I won't be able to actually fully embrace SSD in my laptop until it hits 256GB and is cheap as a regular HD. Or at least 128GB.

There is a video of a guy that installed a solid state drive in his MBP and it was a good bit faster. I don't think he did the full set of benchmarks but it cold booted to a functioning desktop in 20 seconds.

http://www.ryanblock.com/2007/11/the-fi … -64gb-ssd/

I just finished a review of a MBP with a 32GB SSD installed as the boot drive. (The company that sells it also includes the MBP's original HDD in a FW 800 enclosure.)

It screams. Look for the review soon on MacLife.com (next week, I hope).

Susie wrote:

frankly wrote:

Jasoco wrote:

I'm curious to know, how instant loading are we talking with SSD? Like, how much faster will everything boot and start and stuff. I can't wait for someone to do the first benchmarks between an HD based Air and an SSD based one.

Still, I won't be able to actually fully embrace SSD in my laptop until it hits 256GB and is cheap as a regular HD. Or at least 128GB.

There is a video of a guy that installed a solid state drive in his MBP and it was a good bit faster. I don't think he did the full set of benchmarks but it cold booted to a functioning desktop in 20 seconds.

http://www.ryanblock.com/2007/11/the-fi … -64gb-ssd/

I just finished a review of a MBP with a 32GB SSD installed as the boot drive. (The company that sells it also includes the MBP's original HDD in a FW 800 enclosure.)

It screams. Look for the review soon on MacLife.com (next week, I hope).

I am looking forward to that. I am really hoping that sometime in the next year or two, just when my MBP starts to not feel as zippy as it did when I first bought it that the SSDs will have increased in capacity and come down in price enough to make it worth the upgrade

my 12" rev a pb has been my only computer for the past 4 years. I've done video work using FCE, iMovie dvd burning using dvd studio pro, image editing/manipulating with photoshop and illustrator. my computer has done everything I've wanted it to. and it did replace my windows desktop.

The PowerBook now - let's call it the MacBook, is £400 cheaper than the Air, and is richer in features.

I don't think comparing technology prices 4 years ago with those of today really works/   That said, it would be interesting to get some idea of what the costs are at a component level now between an Air and, let's say a MacBook Pro (base model), which is nearer to the Air's retail price (certainly here in the UK).

frankly wrote:

2) Apple designed the system so that they could easily move to solid state only when the price comes down.

Really?
Internal dellemma solved!

Blandford Fly wrote:

frankly wrote:

some stuff

Maybe I didn't imply enough joviality... and I apologise.   My argument, however remains concrete.

Only the part about me not being able to convince you. Everything else you said is bunk

FutureDreamz wrote:

frankly wrote:

2) Apple designed the system so that they could easily move to solid state only when the price comes down.

Really?
Internal dellemma solved!

I could see in about 2 years their being two options, 64GB SS at the current price and 128GB SS at or near the current high price. Something like this has probably been on the drawing board for a while now and I think the hope was probably that they could release it with SS only at launch but the prices didn't come down fast enough to make that happen.

Frank

Why exactly is the SSD so much more expensive  - is it made of more expensive parts, is it extremely difficult to manufacture?  Or is it due to being more reliable, or faster, or some other feature based reason?  Is it the future of HD technology, but just emerging, and therefore the development costs need to be re-couped by early adopters?  I've already claimed stupidity, so give it to me in plain jane terms.

Donkey Butter wrote:

my 12" rev a pb has been my only computer for the past 4 years. I've done video work using FCE, iMovie dvd burning using dvd studio pro, image editing/manipulating with photoshop and illustrator. my computer has done everything I've wanted it to. and it did replace my windows desktop.

pFFFTT.... Amateur.

I did some FCP/DVPSP stuff on it and was pleasantly surprised at how well it did.   Needless to say, I had a few "externals" to assist me.

I thought it was a great machine.

Alien wrote:

NAG wrote:

The only thing the albook has over the MBA is a FireWire port.

And an ethernet port, and being able to use a mouse while downloading photo's, and having an external drive connected to put those photos on, and recording a narrative soundtrack to accompany those photos.

You can hardly get photos on the net with an MBA? What? Unless you have one of the few FireWire only cameras I seriously question that statement.

It's hyperbole, I know. The point being, the MBA is not equipped for many tasks that Apple themselves advertise as central to the whole Mac/digital hub experience.

,xtG
.tsooJ

What the heck are you talking about??? What would stop a MBA from doing the things you mentioned above???

The MBA is equipped for everything in the digital hub experience except importing video from a Firewire dv cam. The fact is that Apple doesn't really push the whole burning to a DVD thing like they used to. Some people have seriously questioned Apple's commitment to iDVD with the latest release of iLife.

You are seriously reaching with your analysis. The MBA is limited but not in the ways you are suggesting and not anywhere near the extent to which you are saying.

Frank

Jasoco wrote:

When you did the test with the HD itself, did you put it back inside the MBP? Rather than keep it in the FW case?

I compared the benchmarks for the 2.2GHz MacBook Pro with 32GB SSD against my work computer, a 2.4GHz MacBook Pro with 160GB HDD. I couldn't get my hands on another 2.2GHz MBP, which is a shame, but the results were still interesting.

And on another topic:
I can't remember if it was this thread or another where people were asking if the MBA could boot from a disk in a remote optical drive. MacFixIt says it can.