Forums | MacLife
You are not logged in.
#1 2008-06-01 4:51 pm
- Hank Rearden
- Watch your step
- From: Republic of Western Canada
- Registered: 2001-04-18
- Posts: 7044
- Website
Hillary and the nuclear option
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blog … -race.aspx
Bill and Hillary Clinton no longer control the Democratic primary.
...
She wanted Obama to get zero delegates from Michigan, since he followed the rules, ignored the outlaw primary and went so far as to take his name off the ballot.
...
What's next for Hillary? We'll find out pretty soon if she is considering the "nuclear option" - by fighting the Michigan compromise all the way to the convention in August. As I've written before, it's a dangerous strategy that could rip the Democratic party apart, destroy her legacy and that of her husband, and still not win her the presidential nomination.
She is a complete nut, and judging from footage that I've seen of the Rules committee hearing, so are her supporters.
I'm starting to get the feeling that she, and her husband - who did all he could to turn the presidency into a joke, are some sort of GOP plants.
Don't get me wrong, I think that the Democrats are just the other wing of the Warfare/Welfare party. But, it surprises me that the powers-that-be can't seem to keep the charade better hidden than this.
The gross heathenism of civilization has generally destroyed nature, and poetry, and all that is spiritual. -John Muir-
Offline
#2 2008-06-01 5:01 pm
Re: Hillary and the nuclear option
Personally - even though I prefer Obama - I think she should have gotten the delegates.
He chose to remove his name from the Ballot on Michigan.
That's a clear indication he didn't want their delegates.
Hillary should be awarded all the delegates she won from both of those states.
In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor
Offline
#3 2008-06-01 5:20 pm
Re: Hillary and the nuclear option
No. Obama followed the rules. Hillary did not. She should not be rewarded.
Offline
#4 2008-06-01 6:20 pm
- Hank Rearden
- Watch your step
- From: Republic of Western Canada
- Registered: 2001-04-18
- Posts: 7044
- Website
Re: Hillary and the nuclear option
resedit wrote:
He chose to remove his name from the Ballot on Michigan.
That's a clear indication he didn't want their delegates.
He chose to follow the rules. Of course, that's probably naive in cutthroat politics. But, it's what he did, and it's commendable.
The gross heathenism of civilization has generally destroyed nature, and poetry, and all that is spiritual. -John Muir-
Offline
#5 2008-06-01 6:47 pm
Re: Hillary and the nuclear option
Naive or a calculated action. Bear in mind, for it to be the latter he would have to understand the potential ramifications and choose to do so anyway for his own reasons.
Offline
#6 2008-06-01 6:47 pm
Re: Hillary and the nuclear option
If he was following the rules, how is he ending up with delegates in a state where he didn't even have his name on the ballot?
That doesn't sound like any democratic rules I've ever heard of.
And yes - Hillary did follow the rules. She did not campaign in those states.
In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor
Offline
#8 2008-06-01 6:57 pm
Re: Hillary and the nuclear option
So - assuming Hillary wins the popular vote but loses the delegate count, will those who complained about the electoral college in 2000 have a change of heart in the importance of everyone's vote counting the same, or will they support Hillary?
Just kind of curious.
In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor
Offline
#9 2008-06-01 7:05 pm
- Tallgeese
- Sternly Advising
- From: Pool Party
- Registered: 2000-10-17
- Posts: 34075
Re: Hillary and the nuclear option
resedit wrote:
So - assuming Hillary wins the popular vote but loses the delegate count, will those who complained about the electoral college in 2000 have a change of heart in the importance of everyone's vote counting the same, or will they support Hillary?
Just kind of curious.
Who did the superdelegates support in the 2000 general election?
Oh wait... There were none because that was a totally different situation.
I still believe in liberalism today as much as I ever did, but, oh, there was a happy time when I believed in liberals.
Offline
#10 2008-06-01 7:24 pm
- Tom_N
- Member
- Registered: 2002-01-24
- Posts: 889
Re: Hillary and the nuclear option
Where in the Constitution does it say that in matters involving Presidential elections, party wishes supersede state laws?
Offline
#11 2008-06-01 7:31 pm
Re: Hillary and the nuclear option
Tallgeese wrote:
resedit wrote:
So - assuming Hillary wins the popular vote but loses the delegate count, will those who complained about the electoral college in 2000 have a change of heart in the importance of everyone's vote counting the same, or will they support Hillary?
Just kind of curious.Who did the superdelegates support in the 2000 general election?
Oh wait... There were none because that was a totally different situation.
Was not the complaint that the popular vote was for Gore?
It seems that here, the popular vote is for Clinton.
Explain why the popular vote should matter in the general election but not in the primaries?
Exactly what is different about the situation that negates the will of the masses?
In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor
Offline
#12 2008-06-01 7:39 pm
- Tallgeese
- Sternly Advising
- From: Pool Party
- Registered: 2000-10-17
- Posts: 34075
Re: Hillary and the nuclear option
resedit wrote:
Tallgeese wrote:
resedit wrote:
So - assuming Hillary wins the popular vote but loses the delegate count, will those who complained about the electoral college in 2000 have a change of heart in the importance of everyone's vote counting the same, or will they support Hillary?
Just kind of curious.Who did the superdelegates support in the 2000 general election?
Oh wait... There were none because that was a totally different situation.Was not the complaint that the popular vote was for Gore?
It seems that here, the popular vote is for Clinton.
Explain why the popular vote should matter in the general election but not in the primaries?
Exactly what is different about the situation that negates the will of the masses?
Do you know what a superdelegate is?
I still believe in liberalism today as much as I ever did, but, oh, there was a happy time when I believed in liberals.
Offline
#13 2008-06-01 7:51 pm
- Farmerkev
- Official Dementor
- Moderator
- Registered: 2003-01-03
- Posts: 18616
Re: Hillary and the nuclear option
Tom_N wrote:
Where in the Constitution does it say that in matters involving Presidential elections, party wishes supersede state laws?
The thing is this is party nominees for the presidential election.
I personally think the party should suck ass and play by the state rules but it's not that b & w.
Do your part to combat global warming.
Eat a cow.
Offline
#14 2008-06-01 7:56 pm
Re: Hillary and the nuclear option
Tallgeese wrote:
resedit wrote:
Tallgeese wrote:
Who did the superdelegates support in the 2000 general election?
Oh wait... There were none because that was a totally different situation.Was not the complaint that the popular vote was for Gore?
It seems that here, the popular vote is for Clinton.
Explain why the popular vote should matter in the general election but not in the primaries?
Exactly what is different about the situation that negates the will of the masses?Do you know what a superdelegate is?
Please explain why they magically make the popular vote unimportant.
In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor
Offline
#15 2008-06-01 8:19 pm
- Tallgeese
- Sternly Advising
- From: Pool Party
- Registered: 2000-10-17
- Posts: 34075
Re: Hillary and the nuclear option
Do you know what a superdelegate is?
I still believe in liberalism today as much as I ever did, but, oh, there was a happy time when I believed in liberals.
Offline
#16 2008-06-01 8:28 pm
- mo' ron
- PS3 4 EVA
- From: NC, USA
- Registered: 2002-10-15
- Posts: 14245
Re: Hillary and the nuclear option
Hillary doesn't really have the popular vote though, why does this even matter?
What is the difference between Vista and OSX?
- Microsoft employees are excited about OSX.
Offline
#17 2008-06-01 8:47 pm
- Duke Stratosphere
- Winter Rebel
- From: Iowa
- Registered: 2003-12-10
- Posts: 3731
- Website
Re: Hillary and the nuclear option
Does the federal government even really have anything to say about this matter? Seems to me like it doesn't. The Green Party has 3 or 4 Presidential candidates so, theoretically, I assume that the Democratic party could simply let both Obama and Clinton be on the ballot ... legally, at least. Pragmatically, that would probably split the Democratic voters in half and throw the election to McCain, of course. My only point here is that it's legal for one party to have more than one candidate on the ballot.
"Make the most of the hemp seed. Sow it everywhere." --George Washington (No party)
Offline
#18 2008-06-01 8:48 pm
Re: Hillary and the nuclear option
mo' ron wrote:
Hillary doesn't really have the popular vote though, why does this even matter?
She says she does.
Where is the discrepancy?
In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor
Offline
#19 2008-06-01 9:23 pm
Re: Hillary and the nuclear option
Including FL, MI, & the caucuses: Obama wins
Including FL & MI but excluding the caucuses: Clinton Wins
Including the caucuses but excluding FL & MI: Obama Wins
Excluding FL, MI, & the caucuses: Obama wins
Popular vote wise.
Last edited by ScifiterX (2008-06-01 9:26 pm)
Offline
#20 2008-06-01 9:29 pm
- Tallgeese
- Sternly Advising
- From: Pool Party
- Registered: 2000-10-17
- Posts: 34075
Re: Hillary and the nuclear option
If Clinton really thought the rules were a problem, she should have spoken against it last year. Instead, she supported the rule on Florida and Michigan when it was made.
She only has a problem with the rule because it adversely affects her.
She can STFU.
I still believe in liberalism today as much as I ever did, but, oh, there was a happy time when I believed in liberals.
Offline
#21 2008-06-01 10:16 pm
- ShnickyShnack
- ::: title edited due to Satanic influences :::
- From: Rockin' out
- Registered: 2001-05-25
- Posts: 22237
Re: Hillary and the nuclear option
Tallgeese wrote:
If Clinton really thought the rules were a problem, she should have spoken against it last year. Instead, she supported the rule on Florida and Michigan when it was made.
She only has a problem with the rule because it adversely affects her.
She can STFU.
Indeed.
Considering the bizarre fanaticism of so many of her supporters, I could see the Klintons sticking it out to further an "I wuz robbed" myth. It would certainly be easier to live with than an "I done blew it" reality.
Note: please delete this post.
Offline
#22 2008-06-01 11:19 pm
Re: Hillary and the nuclear option
Pretty much all of Clinton's supporters on the RBC voted to strip MI and FL of their delegates. They have no one to blame but themselves. I think Obama should have let her have them because he'll win even if she gets them.
It's all up to the superdelegates now. If he gets enough that even with her taking all of MI's delegates she still can't win, then it does her no good to bring the fight to the convention. I think she's counting on more superdelegates going her way. The other rationale is that she wants to claim a popular vote victory to save face before bowing out.
It is an odd thing, but every one who disappears is said to be seen at San Francisco. It must be a delightful city, and possess all the attractions of the next world.
- Oscar Wilde
Offline
#23 2008-06-01 11:27 pm
Re: Hillary and the nuclear option
ScifiterX wrote:
Including FL, MI, & the caucuses: Obama wins
Including FL & MI but excluding the caucuses: Clinton Wins
Including the caucuses but excluding FL & MI: Obama Wins
Excluding FL, MI, & the caucuses: Obama wins
Popular vote wise.
If you are looking at the popular vote, no one should be excluded.
Except for the dead people. But they usually only vote in the presidential elections, I guess it takes a lot of effort to climb out of their grave.
In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor
Offline
#24 2008-06-01 11:42 pm
Re: Hillary and the nuclear option
resedit wrote:
ScifiterX wrote:
Including FL, MI, & the caucuses: Obama wins
Including FL & MI but excluding the caucuses: Clinton Wins
Including the caucuses but excluding FL & MI: Obama Wins
Excluding FL, MI, & the caucuses: Obama wins
Popular vote wise.If you are looking at the popular vote, no one should be excluded.
Glad we agree. I was simply providing context on what info was probably being used for spin purposes.
Except for the dead people. But they usually only vote in the presidential elections, I guess it takes a lot of effort to climb out of their grave.
Offline
#25 2008-06-02 6:18 am
- ShnickyShnack
- ::: title edited due to Satanic influences :::
- From: Rockin' out
- Registered: 2001-05-25
- Posts: 22237
Re: Hillary and the nuclear option
It's my understanding there aren't any official vote tallies for the caucuses, in which case I don't see how they can be counted.
Note: please delete this post.
Offline
