Forums | MacLife

NightCougar_37 · 2008-10-09 2:13 am

Ahhh, thats right.

Bat · 2008-10-09 4:17 pm

Nvidia 270, 290 and GX2 roll out in November
Why you shouldn't get too excited
...

That brings us to the new parts, the 270 and 290. They popped up on a PNY price list a few weeks ago, and then were pulled off immediately. This part is what we were calling the GT200b in May, but the public code name is GT206. It is simply an optically shrunk GT200, so clock for clock, you won't get any speed boost out of it. It is meant to fatten up the margins by reducing cost. If the GT200 is a 576mm^2 die, and the 206 is around 460mm^2 (~21mm*21mm die), even with the more expensive 55nm process, NV should save some money.

One big problem though is yield. GT200s started out at 40 per cent yield, that is for the 280 and the yield salvage 260, and were up to a hair above 60 per cent last time we looked. Toss in the smoothly-named GTX260-216, and you screw up the binning a lot. When you transition to a new process, yield almost always goes down, so this part should be back in at the bottom of the yield toilet, not that 60 per cent is out of the bowl, in short order.

So what are the 270 and 290? That is easy, they are 55nm GT200s, aka GT200b, aka GT206. Nothing new, nothing spectacular at all. Why the new name then, other than desperation, if you get nothing different clock for clock? Well, that is easy, Nvidia simply has to bump up margins, and the easiest way to do that is to snow customers.
...

The G92 (8800GT/9800GTX/GT15x) was coolable, barely, with a single slot cooler. The GT200 is not. Even with a theoretical 20 per cent lower power draw, you would be at 290W for a dual 55nm 260 clone. If you use a 260-216 or jack the clock up, you are at 300+W in an instant, and we can see 350W without trying hard.
...

NV is in a real bind here, it needs a halo, but the parts won't let it do it. If they jack up power to give them the performance they need, they can't power it. Then there is the added complication of how the heck do you cool the damn thing. With a dual PCB, you have less than one slot to cool something that runs hot with a two slot cooler. In engineering terms, this is what you call a mess.

A GX2 might reclaim the top spot if they can clock it high enough, but you'd need watts++ to power it if they can, and it'd eat 3 slots of space, easy, with 2 PCBs. Availability, yeah, near nil, but they'll say 'we haz it, we winzorz.' The usual. I can't wait to see how many 8-pin PCIe power plugs it sports, and if any hacks remind us of the fun NV made of the 2900XT. Aux VGA PSU, anyone?

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/ … 0-gx2-roll

(And Books, Antec now haz HTPC cases big_smile ).

Bat · 2008-10-12 3:41 pm

I wouldn't want to be NV unless I had a golden parachute and was already halfway out the door.

192 stream processors or 216 stream processors? To have, or not to have, that is the question. Nvidia recently released their improved version of the GTX 260, but partners are not buying into it right now.

The improved version of the card was part of an attempt to offer a product that would indisputably better compared to an offer from their direct competitor, ATI – with the 4870 graphics card. The new core does have its advantages over the old version, but many manufacturers have decided to stick with the older version for now.

The original GTX 260 with 192 stream processors (SP) has 64 texture units (TU), 28 render back ends (RBE) and 896MB of GDDR3. The new GTX 260 with 216 stream processors comes with 72 texture units and 30 render back ends and the same 896 MB of GDDR3. There is a performance increase, but nothing substantial. Nvidia even maintained the price model of the original 260.

Although the attempt was a good one, many of the leading suppliers of Nvidia based cards such as Asustek, Gainward, MicroStar International and Leadtek Research, still do not sell graphics cards based on the new 216SP core. According to market sources, many companies have too many of the 192SP based boards available in stock right now – they would have to be unloaded first before even considering another model with the same name with technical differences. Suppliers also do not think the performance increase is enough to warrant hopping on board just yet.

Nvidia Partners Reluctant to Sell New Chip

NightCougar_37 · 2008-10-12 7:47 pm

This is just stupid. Getting to be too many versions of the same crap. N would make better use of the money developing this by putting it into repairing their image and focusing on the next series board.

Bat · 2008-10-12 10:22 pm

It's likely a matter of yields. The 280 has all 10 blocks of 24 SPs working; the 260 was the 'salvage' part, with two of those disabled/not working. Yields improve over time, so this jobbie has 9 functional blocks. 9 blocks = 216 SPs.

Thing is, that doesn't address the issue of all those 8-core original chips already bought by AIBs, needing to be sold to recoup their purchase price. The new card obviously isn't expected to set the world on fire and make up the difference in volume with, at best, 1/8 better performance. The product lineup is too crowded; offer this now, risk having a bunch of unsold originals left later.

(Unless Steve bought some at fire-sale prices for a Mac version. Calling Steve; bargain videochips hmm ...but that would only benefit one firm).

Bat · 2008-10-16 2:02 am

Maybe in January. Meanwhile the same old is still Apple's bleeding edge, 'turbocharged' graphics.

Meanwhile, Hardware Canucks (! eek ) and others review Thermalright's new, pricey T-Rad² Videocard Cooler.

Like most of you out there, I have a love/hate relationship with stock coolers on video cards. Some are amazingly quiet but don’t cool the fire-breathing core off as well as any self-respecting enthusiast would want while others sound like dust busters and still don’t get the job done. Finding that perfect combination of near-silence and acceptable cooling is a lesson in futility if you are looking to stick with a stock heatsink but luckily, there are other options out there for us.

Companies like Thermalright, Arctic Cooling, Coolink, Noctua and many others have made it their business to cater to people who think stock coolers are for sissies. They all offer their own take on what a high performance air cooler should look like but if there is one company out there that causes people to take notice with a new release, it is Thermalright. Thermalright has long been known for producing some of the best (and most expensive) air cooling solutions available on the market but do not extensively expand their line-up like some others. Their designs for products like the HR-series of GPU coolers and tower-style Ultra CPU cooler have stood the test of time since after years of market exposure, they are still considered among the best of the best. While their products may not be cheap, they have always shown a quality of construction far above their immediate competition while cooling your GPU or CPU off like no one’s business.

Bat · 2008-10-16 2:30 am

ScifiterX wrote:
It strikes me for MacBook Pro & iMac he probably asks for the best onboard video card(s) he can get within specific heat and cost parameters.

Videochips for at least the notebooks; chip & any local memory therefor are soldered on the logic board (and on the iMac as well for all I know). That's why they're non-upgradable; they're not discrete cards. As for heat etc., too bad he has no engineering training.

For the Mac Pros, he asks for a reasonably priced card that's superior to the both the iMac card & the last standard card used in the Mac Pro plus any superior cards that the card makers will sell them, however since Apple's line isn't usually video upgrade friendly that tends be a limited selection and quantity.

The 2600 Pro is the same on the iMac and the base MP config. Apple is a large enough company Steve could get most any card they offer, tho SLI/Crossfire would be pointless as OSX lacks multi-GPU support. But Steve could have current offerings, and they could be cooled- Apple is proud of its thermal management, not without reason. Not too long ago it was deemed worthwhile to stick an auto radiator in 2.7GHz G5s, remember; but Steve just seems not to care enough about... you know. Or upgrade his apps and OS soonest to leverage GPU power. The Windows PC just pwns the Mac in those areas.

And yes, it could make a difference.

Bat · 2008-10-23 2:31 am

A new entry.

AMD Radeon HD 4830: Affordable Performance And Heavy Competition
With AMD's introduction of a $130 part that can handle high quality settings at decent resolutions, we...

Since the launch of the RV7xx GPU, AMD has been steadily filling out a top to bottom Radeon HD 4000 series lineup. The first markets addressed were gamer centric with the 4850 and 4870. Next in line was the hardcore enthusiast class with the dual-GPU 4870 X2. Since then we've seen the 4670, the 4550 and the 4350 filling out the bottom end value and mainstream segments. But there was a bit of a performance and price gap between the 4670 and the 4850. This gap has now been filled.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3437

Bat · 2008-10-26 1:28 am

The AT board, and those of a number of review sites, had an incorrect early BIOS that didn't enable all available SPs. Retail boards are unaffected, but some early reviews showed subpar performance.

After re-running all of our test, we updated the original article with the new charts and data. The final conclusion really doesn't change that much, but we did tweak things a little bit. There will still be a heavy emphasis on price and finding the lowest one possible when deciding between the Radeon HD 4830 and the GeForce 9800 GT. But the Radeon 4830 does look a little better in this new light and there is less of a threat from the myriad overclocked 9800 GT versions.

Update

Bat · 2008-10-28 5:28 pm

DAMMIT'S PLANS for an HD 4850 X2 have been confirmed after pictures of a Sapphire implementation of the chippery appeared on a Chinese web site.

The dual-slot card features some heavy-duty cooling and comes with 2Gb of GDDR3 memory.

The pictures are here.

The implementation appears to be exclusive to Sapphire - for now. µ

Sapphire HD 4850 X2 pictured on the Interweb

AMD has released a version of its ATI Catalyst drivers for Windows 7.

The firm said the release is to coincide with the pre-beta release of Microsoft’s Windows 7 OS.

Should you be noodling about with such a thing, you can download your drivers here.

AMD says the driver and control centre has not completed full AMD testing. But neither has Windows 7, we imagine. µ

Catalyst drivers for Windows 7 tip up

Bat · 2008-11-04 9:09 pm

How much worse can it get for NV? Good thing Apple's a big customer... the 4850X2 is here, and

IT LOOKS LIKE Nvidia's run of bad luck is continuing. The latest word is that the GT200b is in for another respin, that would be the third. This means the 270 and 290 are effectively delayed until February, and the GX2 part is quite dead.

If you recall, the original plan was to have them out for the Nehalem launch on the 17th, an ambitious goal considering the timing on the last respin. Since that spin failed, it is a moot point, but word is that NV will put something out on the market.

Since this is (was?) a simple optical shrink, there are going to be no new features, so that leaves better power, higher clocks, and lower prices as an option. Since most if not all GT200 based parts are selling at little if any profit – we hear 260s are under water, 280s barely above – don't look for price being the point the wheel-o-semicoductor-planning stops on.

That leaves power and speed. Unfortunately, the shrink is a mess and not working out well at all, so neither of those features panned out. Where does that leave us? With a shrunken GT200 that doesn't really perform any better or worse than the current part, but gives NV a little better breathing room. That is the current best case.

Nvidia 270/290 in deep trouble

Bat · 2008-11-05 1:12 am

Throw in a little time for testing, not that the concept seems to matter much at NV, and you are into February.

No wonder ATI cards are on allocation. µ

ibid.

I was wondering why ATi cards seemed to have gone up lately.

Bat · 2008-11-05 4:37 pm

DAAMIT HAS SPRUNG a surprise on the gaming masses who’ve had their attention drawn to the Core i7 launch. The HD 4850 X2 has been officially launched to a fanfare of reviews popping up across the world wide wibble.

First reviews show the 4850 X2 performing more or less on par with a GTX 280, depending on how well GPU scaling works, and how much the game engine is ATI-friendly. If your fanboi-ism doesn’t get the best of you, you’ll be more than happy to know that DAAMIT is pricing the card just below the GTX 280 and forcing the Green Goblin’s hand.

Naturally, the reviews posted into site in no time…

[list]

HD 4850 X2 reviews sneak in

Bat · 2008-11-17 5:10 am

"Uh oh- this not good" (for NV) [/Grunty]

WHAT IF YOU could build a really cheap setup that wiped the floor with a GTX 280. That’s what Hexus did with two Sapphire HD 4830s. The 4830s pull ahead of the mighty GTX 280 in most multi-GPU friendly games, at very hi-res... and when you get to comparing the bang4buck it’s almost 2-to-1 against the GTX 280. This should send the Nvidia PR bunnies into a frenzy...

Oftentimes we've lambasted multi-GPU graphics-card setups as a general waste of money, pointing our readers in the direction of the fastest single-GPU card that their budget allows them to buy.

However, of late, both ATI and NVIDIA have cleaned up their multi-GPU acts, and scaling in popular games is such that adding a second GPU - be it on the PCB itself or via another card - makes implicit sense if the value proposition is just right.

The sub-£100 Sapphire Radeon HD 4830 512MB validates this point by providing reasonable high-end gaming performance on its own but practically doubling average framerate when another is added.
..

Additional performance derived by a second card gives cumulative numbers, over our four games, which are equal to a pre-overclocked GeForce GTX 280, but the win here is with a substantially lower street price - £200 vs. £330 - and multi-monitor outputs.

Two sub-$130 ATi cards top NV's best in multi-GPU-aware games, and are adequate to most others? Ouch.

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/ … ibble-2008

http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=16300

Bat · 2008-11-18 1:37 am

NV strikes back... sort of.

GeForce 9600 GSO+ appears

Last month we reported on rumors that NVIDIA was prepping a "new" GeForce 9600 GSO based on their smaller G94 GPU (instead of G92) in an effort to cut manufacturing costs. The new 9600 GSO is equipped with half the shaders as the original 9600 GSO, 48, but retains G94's 256-bit memory interface (current 9600 GSO cards utilize a narrower 192-bit memory interface).

Today Expreview got their hands on one of the first of these new 9600 GSO cards from Inno3D. Their card is clocked at 650MHz core/1625MHz shaders, an improvement of 100MHz and 250MHz respectively over the original 9600 GSO. Finally the memory clock on the Inno3D 9600 GSO+ board is 900MHz, an increase of 100MHz over the original 9600 GSO.

Thanks to its higher clocks and 256-bit memory interface the new 9600 GSO's may perform comparably, or even slightly better than the original 9600 GSO in some situations despite its lack of shading units. Unfortunately Expreview doesn't list benchmark results for the card. Officially the GPU hasn't launched yet, but with current supplies of 9600 GSO cards drying up at Newegg (currently just 5 new cards are listed) and the appearance of this new 9600 GSO+ board, it's likely only a matter of weeks before the new cards hit retail. Expreview mentions an MSRP of $87 for the Inno3D card.

At least using G94 should save them some money.

http://www.firingsquad.com/news/newsart … chid=21011

Bat · 2008-11-25 3:21 am

Free BFG AGP->PCIe Upgrades [November 25, 2008, 12:00 am ET] - Share

BFG Tech is now offering free upgrades for owners of certain AGP-based versions of their graphics accelerators, who can get higher-performing PCIe replacements for no cost. The upgrades are available for a limited time in the US only, and qualifying products are the AGP versions of the BFG GeForce 7600 GS OC 512MB, BFG GeForce 6800 OC 128MB AGP, BFG GeForce 6800 GS OC 256MB AGP, BFG GeForce 6800 GT OC 256MB AGP, BFG GeForce 6800 Ultra OC 256MB AGP, and BFG GeForce 7800 GS OC 256MB AGP. In addition to the free upgrades, they are also offering even higher performance upgrades for a $50.00 fee. No explanation for their generosity accompanies BFG's announcement. Thanks Mike Martinez.

Bat · Today 5:06 am

Still more renaming.

More evidence of GeForce renaming surfaces

If recent ForceWare driver releases are correct, NVIDIA is poised to rename existing GeForce 8 & 9 series GPUs once again. VR-Zone has uncovered new GeForce GTS, GeForce GT, and GeForce G GPUs, as well as new mobile parts.

According to the report, G92-based cards will be designated as GeForce GTS 150, while G94 cards will be named GeForce GT 130 and G96 GeForce GT 120. Finally, G98 GPUs will be sold as GeForce G100.

As you can see under the new designation NVIDIA will brand their high-end enthusiast parts as "GeForce GTX" while mainstream performance segment will be branded as "GeForce GTS". Mainstream cards will be sold as GeForce GT and finally entry-level cards will use the GeForce G designation.

No word on when the new renamed cards will hit retail, presumably NVIDIA's board partners will move as quickly as possible to sell existing GeForce 9800, 9600, 9500, 9400 cards first though.

whaa

http://www.firingsquad.com/news/newsart … chid=21047

NightCougar_37 · Today 5:18 pm

Well those 9 series must be great sellers for them to continue pushing them over the 2 series. Now to go back and rename them to match the new scheme too...course this might confuse people even more and in the end, cause worse problems.

Bat · Today 6:11 pm

NightCougar_37 wrote:
Well those 9 series must be great sellers for them to continue pushing them over the 2 series. Now to go back and rename them to match the new scheme too...course this might confuse people even more and in the end, cause worse problems.

NV may be hoping people are confused enough to have a harder time googling or otherwise tracking which cards/chips have been failing.

Bat · Today 7:22 pm

Well.

EVERYONE GETS A little nostalgic around the holidays and the folks down at 3DFX Zone are no exception, coming out with a new video driver to support Voodoo3 and a host of other newer cards on Windows 2000 and XP 32 & 64-bit Operating Systems.

For those reluctant to throw their Voodoo cards into the dustbin of history, and even more reluctant to use Vista, this new driver is something of a ghost of Christmas past, spreading nostalgic cheer to one and all.

The updated driver package for 3dfx accelerators is based on a unified architecture, so it will work for a plethora of 3dfx GPUs including the Voodoo3 2000, Voodoo3 3000 and Voodoo3 3500 cards.

It will also work for all 3dfx VSA-100 products; Voodoo4 4500, Voodoo5 5500 and Voodoo5 6000 cards. µ

3dfx drivers updated

Who still can haz? I can I can! big_smile

Forums | MacLife

#126 2008-10-09 2:13 am

Re: The Summer/Fall videocards

#127 2008-10-09 4:17 pm

Re: The Summer/Fall videocards

#128 2008-10-12 3:41 pm

Re: The Summer/Fall videocards

#129 2008-10-12 7:47 pm

Re: The Summer/Fall videocards

#130 2008-10-12 10:22 pm

Re: The Summer/Fall videocards

#131 2008-10-16 2:02 am

Re: The Summer/Fall videocards

#132 2008-10-16 2:30 am

Re: The Summer/Fall videocards

ScifiterX wrote:

#133 2008-10-23 2:31 am

Re: The Summer/Fall videocards

#134 2008-10-26 1:28 am

Re: The Summer/Fall videocards

#135 2008-10-28 5:28 pm

Re: The Summer/Fall videocards

#136 2008-11-04 9:09 pm

Re: The Summer/Fall videocards

#137 2008-11-05 1:12 am

Re: The Summer/Fall videocards

#138 2008-11-05 4:37 pm

Re: The Summer/Fall videocards

#139 2008-11-17 5:10 am

Re: The Summer/Fall videocards

#140 2008-11-18 1:37 am

Re: The Summer/Fall videocards

#141 2008-11-25 3:21 am

Re: The Summer/Fall videocards

#142 Today 5:06 am

Re: The Summer/Fall videocards

#143 Today 5:18 pm

Re: The Summer/Fall videocards

#144 Today 6:11 pm

Re: The Summer/Fall videocards

NightCougar_37 wrote:

#145 Today 7:22 pm

Re: The Summer/Fall videocards

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