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resedit wrote:

What does that have to do with whether or not the g word was used in their science classes, and how many people could tell you what mitosis is who have not had biology since high school?

Try reading the decision, and then complaining.  It will make it appear as if you know what you're talking about.

Tallgeese wrote:

resedit wrote:

Tallgeese wrote:

Yes, all we need are more English majors who don't know mitosis from metempsychosis.

What does that have to do with whether or not the g word was used in their science classes, and how many people could tell you what mitosis is who have not had biology since high school?

The state of California examined their biology curricula and found them lacking. In your imagination, it happened because they said "god" once or twice but in reality, it was not so.

The simple facts are these: The University of California has certain standards for credit that it will accept and these schools do not meet them.

And students from these schools do not do as well as students from Richmond High?

Red herring. Students who cannot read past a 3rd grade level would also not meet UC's admission guidelines.

Yes, but there is no issue with the school's curriculum. Which is the pivotal part of this whole debate.

resedit wrote:

One of the complaints UC is having is critical thinking.

So let's do some.

Two scenarios:

1) I'm at Berkeley as an English major.
How will whether or not evolution was taught in my high school biology class impact my ability to successfully get my BA in English?
It won't.

2) I'm at Berkeley as a Pre Med major.
What is taught in high school biology of use to me that isn't detailed in my first semester bio textbook?
Nothing.

Conclusion - the UC people who have critical thinking as a concern must have attended private christian high schools, because they certainly don't have any.

That is a false tautology.

Metacell wrote:

In any case, I'm all for anything that limits the free reign of this heretical peasantry.

Careful - you start allowing the government to take away rights from groups you disagree with, and it's all fun and laughs - until they start taking away rights from a group YOU are affiliated with - with precedence on their side.

While there is clearly some book knowledge needed to be successful in college, such as algebra, geometry, etc. - the most important skills a student can have are good study habits, research skills, and the ability to write a decent essay. Public schools are very poor at all three of those areas, many private schools are excellent in those areas - regardless of what they teach in the Biology class.

I bet typical students from the school in question are far better equipped for college than typical students from public schools.
These conservative christian schools are big on teaching kids discipline, public schools - not so much.

resedit wrote:

Metacell wrote:

In any case, I'm all for anything that limits the free reign of this heretical peasantry.

Careful - you start allowing the government to take away rights from groups you disagree with, and it's all fun and laughs - until they start taking away rights from a group YOU are affiliated with - with precedence on their side.

Rights taken away?  I just want them limited by the same stonewalls everybody else has to face when trying to live a lifestyle of your own choosing in this "free" country.  In other words, no special privileges.  I didn't get music credit for taking private piano lessons.

While there is clearly some book knowledge needed to be successful in college, such as algebra, geometry, etc. - the most important skills a student can have are good study habits, research skills, and the ability to write a decent essay. Public schools are very poor at all three of those areas, many private schools are excellent in those areas - regardless of what they teach in the Biology class.

Critical thinking skills are the most important skills anyone can have, period.

I bet typical students from the school in question are far better equipped for college than typical students from public schools.

Possibly, there are also some very good public schools.  My own feeling is that anyone who can pass the entrance exam should be allowed (with highest scores getting first priority).  I also thought high school was a complete waste of time and paying fees/tuition for the first two years of college is a waste of money when you can get the same (or better) education at a JC and transfer (with a much higher acceptance rate at that).

These conservative christian schools are big on teaching kids discipline, public schools - not so much.

Of course not, the state has no right disciplining kids.

resedit wrote:

Metacell wrote:

In any case, I'm all for anything that limits the free reign of this heretical peasantry.

Careful - you start allowing the government to take away rights from groups you disagree with, and it's all fun and laughs - until they start taking away rights from a group YOU are affiliated with - with precedence on their side.

While there is clearly some book knowledge needed to be successful in college, such as algebra, geometry, etc. - the most important skills a student can have are good study habits, research skills, and the ability to write a decent essay. Public schools are very poor at all three of those areas, many private schools are excellent in those areas - regardless of what they teach in the Biology class.

I bet typical students from the school in question are far better equipped for college than typical students from public schools.
These conservative christian schools are big on teaching kids discipline, public schools - not so much.

Then talk to the govenment about the Patriot Act. You talking about closing the barn door after the horses have bolted.

robco wrote:

Does there have to be a "why"? A lot of things happen without a "why" behind them, they just happen, they just are.

Um, you don't know that for a fact. That is one of the primary points of religion - to explain the why and the who. Science takes care of the how, when, and where for us.

ScifiterX wrote:

There are so many holes in your argument I hardly know where to start.

How about this:
UC is a private institution not a public school and thus is technically not bound by the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution nor Article I Section 4 of California's state constitution any more than a private religious school is. It also don't fall under any county's school board. Every college is that way, from the dinkiest little Jr & community colleges to the Ivy League schools.

Nope - UC is a publicly funded university.
I wouldn't give a smurf if it were private.

Publically Funded schools do not require fairly sizable fees & tuitions. However you could argue since the Regents are state government appointed and one is the governor of the state, the is a credible state government link.

Even then accreditation has always been about keeping a relative consistency in minimum basic requirements. This keeps no one from an accredited college from being summarily passed over in regards to future opportunities and allows for the transfer of credits between various colleges. If they don't accept the basic standards the student won't benefit to going to their school causing them to not go to that school, causing financial difficulties for said school.

Last edited by ScifiterX (2008-08-14 11:18 am)

A paleo-liberal retraction?

I really prefer reacting in the manner of the neo-cons. Visit their homes with fire and steel.