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Not only this thread.

More joy, now Russia threatens  Poland.

Needless to say the Russians lost quite a bit with this attack. Negotiations for putting MD in poland could have gone on for a long time without a satisfactory result for the US. This invasion wrapped things up quickly and nicely with the added effect of pushing other countries further toward US support.

Steyr AUG wrote:

Needless to say the Russians lost quite a bit with this attack. Negotiations for putting MD in poland could have gone on for a long time without a satisfactory result for the US. This invasion wrapped things up quickly and nicely with the added effect of pushing other countries further toward US support.

If we were able to deploy this system in a timely manner, I'd agree.  Right now, Poland is going to have to decide whether they want to take the risk of further annoying the Russians when all we're able to do or risk is send bandaids and water to Georgia. 

Eastern Europe is watching to see how badly Russia is going to slap around Georgia and what everyone else (not only the U.S. but Western Europe) does.   

Remember that we've been talking about missile defense systems since Reagan was President and still haven't deployed one.  Everything is in test phase and was pitched to them that it would deal with rogue nations.  Russia is a few notches above the technology level of a rogue nation.

Steyr AUG wrote:

jeremiah256 wrote:

Steyr AUG wrote:

Hardly a threat to say that "if we get nuked by the US then we will nuke you as well" since if that were to actually happen the world is pretty much over for everyone anyway.

That's not what the Russians said.  They said if the anti-missile system (a nuclear defense not attack system),  Poland...is exposing itself to a strike — 100 percent.

The next statement, immediately afterwords says:

He added, in clear reference to the agreement, that Russia's military doctrine sanctions the use of nuclear weapons "against the allies of countries having nuclear weapons if they in some way help them."

Right.  We have nukes (the ally of Poland).  Poland helps us by accepting our missile defense (thereby helping us against Russia).  Their doctrine then allows them to murder innocent Poles.  You're being too nice in interpetaton of what the Russians said - they don't require that they've been attacked by said ally, just that someone helps us.

All I'm saying is that the Russians didn't say "If we get nuked, we'll also nuke Poland."  They said something worst.  They said if Poland assists the US which has nuclear weapons, whether the US uses those weapons or not, whether the US uses any force or not, the Russians can nuke Poland.

jeremiah256 wrote:

All I'm saying is that the Russians didn't say "If we get nuked, we'll also nuke Poland."  They said something worst.  They said if Poland assists the US which has nuclear weapons, whether the US uses those weapons or not, whether the US uses any force or not, the Russians can nuke Poland.

Which would cause them to get nuked back and...

if that were to actually happen the world is pretty much over for everyone anyway.

The limits of playing brinksmanship become evident. Once the initial ploy is placed how far can you dare proceed? Do you really want to call the Bear's bluff? What if the Bear isn't bluffing? Just how sane is Putin? Or rather how crazy is he?

I'm reminded of that old Sting song. Where the line goes, "I hope the Russians love their children too."

Last edited by sturner (2008-08-15 6:24 pm)

This is almost exactly what happened last time we were two minutes to midnight.

Steyr AUG wrote:

Ribtorus wrote:

"Polish missile crisis"

Medvedev is kennedy, Putin is LeMay, Bush is Kruschev.

How simplistic.

I'm not sure. When did the 'Test Ban Treaty' get agreed/signed?
http://vce.com/testban.html

The (3am) WH/Moscow hotline also is a result.

I'd say that there is no current agreed upon parameter for first use, in this era. (Just as then.) If one goes off anywhere, for any reason, what would U.S. do? What is our policy? (What if it was ours?) What would Russia do? What would China/India/Pakistan or NATO/Eng-Fr-Ger do?

Does anyone know?

The last few seconds of Prince in '1999' is better than Sting's.

(Mommy, why does everybody got a bomb?)

Very good Komrade Kokoev. The Komitet Gosudarstvennoi Bezopasnosti appreciates your defense of the motherland.

The plot thickens: Ukraine infuriates Russia by offering to cooperate with West on missile detection systems

In a statement, Ukraine's foreign ministry said that because the country was no longer party to the 1992 agreement with Russia on the use of its radar stations, it could now "launch active co-operation with European nations".
   
This might include "the integration of Ukrainian elements of missile early warning and space control systems with those of foreign countries that are interested in gathering space data", it said.

Earlier this week, President Yushchenko issued a decree putting an end to Ukraine's participation in the accord in view of Russia's abrogation of it.

He said the situation was unprecedented and showed that his country could only ensure its national sovereignty through collective security.

Only that, he said, "could prevent any actions like those which occurred on 7-8 August at first in South Ossetia, and then in other regions of Georgia".

Nice going, Moscow ... your actions guarantee that former Soviet republics will be more eager than ever to align themselves with the West.