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#1 2008-08-17 2:19 pm
- [Tycho?]
- As Elusive As Doubt
- From: May the best sentience win
- Registered: 2000-06-19
- Posts: 3146
Iran - spacefaring nation
http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNew … 6620080817
Iran said it had put a dummy satellite into orbit on a home-grown rocket for the first time today - a move likely to increase Western concerns about its nuclear ambitions.
So, I'm not sure why this isn't front page news, perhaps they're skeptical that Iran is making this up.
Regardless, this is huge. Iran has put up a satellite before, but not by itself. Iran supplied the satellite, which was launched by a Russian rocket. But this seems to be all Iran. If this story is accurate, and if the launch was successful and this dummy satellite is in orbit, it means that Iran has all the technology to make ICBMs, that can hit anywhere in the world.
Of course they don't yet have nukes for the warheads, nor the advanced guidance systems required to actually hit anything, but the basics are all there. The US should be flipping out over this pretty soon.
I could bore you with a philosophical tirade about freedom and tyranny, or try and explain to you what new horizons are suddenly open to me, but I doubt you would understand and if you did it might frighten you. That amuses me.
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#2 2008-08-17 2:24 pm
- Farmerkev
- Official Dementor
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- Registered: 2003-01-03
- Posts: 16672
Re: Iran - spacefaring nation
Guess it sucks not to have a missile shield doesn't it.
Minithink isn't a "to the death" cage match.
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#3 2008-08-17 2:31 pm
- ShnickyShnack
- Commander of Insurgent Cell "Dreamboat"
- From: Amidst a superiority complex
- Registered: 2001-05-25
- Posts: 40381
Re: Iran - spacefaring nation
There's uncertainty over whether it actually entered orbit.
But really this isn't a huge deal; they've bad a program in the works for a very long time. Once your missiles are capable of reaching a certain range, getting into orbit isn't hugely different.
And for people who have the slightest understanding of these things, the term "missile shield" is a ludicrous term for rubes. There ain't no such thing, nor will there be for at least a few decades.
There are missile defense systems of varying degrees of usefulness, but all of them can be easily defeated through simple technical measures on the part of the attackers, or striking key facilities, or if all else fails simply by overwhelming the system with too many missiles for it to handle.
"Those of us who have looked to the self-interest of lending institutions to protect shareholders’ equity, myself especially, are in a state of shocked disbelief." -- Alan Greenspan
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#4 2008-08-17 2:32 pm
- Tallgeese
- Arugula-eating Elitist
- From: Fake America
- Registered: 2000-10-17
- Posts: 30646
Re: Iran - spacefaring nation
[Tycho?] wrote:
http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSHAF75296620080817
Iran said it had put a dummy satellite into orbit on a home-grown rocket for the first time today - a move likely to increase Western concerns about its nuclear ambitions.
So, I'm not sure why this isn't front page news, perhaps they're skeptical that Iran is making this up.
Regardless, this is huge. Iran has put up a satellite before, but not by itself. Iran supplied the satellite, which was launched by a Russian rocket. But this seems to be all Iran. If this story is accurate, and if the launch was successful and this dummy satellite is in orbit, it means that Iran has all the technology to make ICBMs, that can hit anywhere in the world.
Of course they don't yet have nukes for the warheads, nor the advanced guidance systems required to actually hit anything, but the basics are all there. The US should be flipping out over this pretty soon.
"They have all the technology for ICBMs except the warheads or the guidance systems"
He can even take his son with him into the shower, where the boy cannot help but notice that Dad has a penis
- Dr. James Dobson, on "preventing" homosexuality
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#5 2008-08-17 2:35 pm
- Tallgeese
- Arugula-eating Elitist
- From: Fake America
- Registered: 2000-10-17
- Posts: 30646
Re: Iran - spacefaring nation
ShnickyShnack wrote:
There are missile defense systems of varying degrees of usefulness, but all of them can be easily defeated through simple technical measures on the part of the attackers, or striking key facilities, or if all else fails simply by overwhelming the system with too many missiles for it to handle.
Simple technical measures such as...?
Striking key facilities such as...?
And I'm afraid that U.S. BMD sites have access to the "erase" tool so they can easily get rid of half of Iran's launches.
He can even take his son with him into the shower, where the boy cannot help but notice that Dad has a penis
- Dr. James Dobson, on "preventing" homosexuality
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#6 2008-08-17 2:37 pm
- [Tycho?]
- As Elusive As Doubt
- From: May the best sentience win
- Registered: 2000-06-19
- Posts: 3146
Re: Iran - spacefaring nation
Tallgeese wrote:
[Tycho?] wrote:
http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSHAF75296620080817
Iran said it had put a dummy satellite into orbit on a home-grown rocket for the first time today - a move likely to increase Western concerns about its nuclear ambitions.
So, I'm not sure why this isn't front page news, perhaps they're skeptical that Iran is making this up.
Regardless, this is huge. Iran has put up a satellite before, but not by itself. Iran supplied the satellite, which was launched by a Russian rocket. But this seems to be all Iran. If this story is accurate, and if the launch was successful and this dummy satellite is in orbit, it means that Iran has all the technology to make ICBMs, that can hit anywhere in the world.
Of course they don't yet have nukes for the warheads, nor the advanced guidance systems required to actually hit anything, but the basics are all there. The US should be flipping out over this pretty soon."They have all the technology for ICBMs except the warheads or the guidance systems"
Getting something in orbit is the hard part, because it requires so much energy and infrastructure to throw something off the Earth's surface. The guidance systems are comparatively easy, they could probably just buy em off Russia or whomever, or build them themselves once they get some space experience.
And an ICBM is an ICBM regardless of what it carries. It wont be threatening until Iran gets fairly advanced nuclear warheads, because they have to be small enough to fit on the missile. This wont happen for quite a while, but that wont stop the US from making another big stink about it.
I could bore you with a philosophical tirade about freedom and tyranny, or try and explain to you what new horizons are suddenly open to me, but I doubt you would understand and if you did it might frighten you. That amuses me.
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#7 2008-08-17 2:37 pm
- ShnickyShnack
- Commander of Insurgent Cell "Dreamboat"
- From: Amidst a superiority complex
- Registered: 2001-05-25
- Posts: 40381
Re: Iran - spacefaring nation
Tallgeese wrote:
ShnickyShnack wrote:
There are missile defense systems of varying degrees of usefulness, but all of them can be easily defeated through simple technical measures on the part of the attackers, or striking key facilities, or if all else fails simply by overwhelming the system with too many missiles for it to handle.
Simple technical measures such as...?
Striking key facilities such as...?
And I'm afraid that U.S. BMD sites have access to the "erase" tool so they can easily get rid of half of Iran's launches.
Technical measures such as active decoys and maneuverable warheads.
Key facilities such as radar sites in Poland, Alaska or wherever.
As for the final point, that's the real fact that will forever deter an Iranian nuclear attack: good ol' Mutually Assured Destruction.
"Those of us who have looked to the self-interest of lending institutions to protect shareholders’ equity, myself especially, are in a state of shocked disbelief." -- Alan Greenspan
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#8 2008-08-17 2:40 pm
Re: Iran - spacefaring nation
A lot of these reports are pretty ignorant of the differences between ballistic missiles and orbital rockets while both do require similar parts and sophisticated guidance systems there are a lot of differences in how said parts and guidance systems are configured. It actually took a great number of years for the US to figure out how to move from ballistic to orbital and a large number of rockets were destroyed in the process.
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#9 2008-08-17 2:49 pm
- Tallgeese
- Arugula-eating Elitist
- From: Fake America
- Registered: 2000-10-17
- Posts: 30646
Re: Iran - spacefaring nation
ShnickyShnack wrote:
Tallgeese wrote:
ShnickyShnack wrote:
There are missile defense systems of varying degrees of usefulness, but all of them can be easily defeated through simple technical measures on the part of the attackers, or striking key facilities, or if all else fails simply by overwhelming the system with too many missiles for it to handle.
Simple technical measures such as...?
Striking key facilities such as...?
And I'm afraid that U.S. BMD sites have access to the "erase" tool so they can easily get rid of half of Iran's launches.Technical measures such as active decoys and maneuverable warheads.
Key facilities such as radar sites in Poland, Alaska or wherever.
As for the final point, that's the real fact that will forever deter an Iranian nuclear attack: good ol' Mutually Assured Destruction.
Active decoys and maneuverable warheads are NOT simple, nor do they prevent boost phase or midcourse phase interception. It is also not easy to hit enough radar sites to take out the defense before the counterattack takes out the launchers. You're not just talking about a radar site in Alaska - there are also sea-based systems, air-based systems, and of course the satellites.
And the final point was a joke about Iran's photoshopped missile launches
Russia and maybe China are the only nations that have enough weapons for saturation to overcome a missile defense system, and we've got that whole MAD thing with them. The second-stringers don't have a chance and won't for a while to come.
Last edited by Tallgeese (2008-08-17 2:50 pm)
He can even take his son with him into the shower, where the boy cannot help but notice that Dad has a penis
- Dr. James Dobson, on "preventing" homosexuality
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#10 2008-08-17 2:58 pm
Re: Iran - spacefaring nation
Farmerkev wrote:
Guess it sucks not to have a missile shield doesn't it.
Looks like we'll have one sooner than expected courtesy of .RU.
And in other news, the neato Advanced tactical laser successfully engaged a ground target a few days ago.
A Little C4 Knocking at Your Door
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#11 2008-08-17 2:58 pm
- sturner
- Royal High Poobah
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- From: Carrollton, TX USA
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- Posts: 9915
Re: Iran - spacefaring nation
So you only have to worry about a truely insane fanatic who is willing to let everyone die so that his "people" will be saved by God or Allah.
Sweet deal.
"There were places in the world commemorating those times when wizards hadn't been quite as clever [as to refrain from doing magic when you knew how easy it was], and on many of them the grass would never grow again." Terry Prachett
There are 3 types of people, those who can count and those who can't.
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#12 2008-08-17 3:35 pm
- Tallgeese
- Arugula-eating Elitist
- From: Fake America
- Registered: 2000-10-17
- Posts: 30646
Re: Iran - spacefaring nation
sturner wrote:
So you only have to worry about a truely insane fanatic who is willing to let everyone die so that his "people" will be saved by God or Allah.
Sweet deal.
The good thing about that is that those sorts don't tend to be heavily armed.
He can even take his son with him into the shower, where the boy cannot help but notice that Dad has a penis
- Dr. James Dobson, on "preventing" homosexuality
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#13 2008-08-17 4:47 pm
- sturner
- Royal High Poobah
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- From: Carrollton, TX USA
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- Posts: 9915
Re: Iran - spacefaring nation
Iran is trying, and then there is George W. who might be borderline on that.
"There were places in the world commemorating those times when wizards hadn't been quite as clever [as to refrain from doing magic when you knew how easy it was], and on many of them the grass would never grow again." Terry Prachett
There are 3 types of people, those who can count and those who can't.
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#14 2008-08-17 5:09 pm
- KHannon
- Fightin' Legal Irish
- From: Notre Dame Law School
- Registered: 2000-05-14
- Posts: 2838
Re: Iran - spacefaring nation
sturner wrote:
Iran is trying, and then there is George W. who might be borderline on that.
Good thing Iran is not led by individuals who fit your description, despite Fox News' and the general American's ignorance best efforts to portray them as such.
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#15 2008-08-17 5:39 pm
- dvpierce
- Negusa Negest
- Moderator
- From: Minneapolis, MN
- Registered: 1999-08-30
- Posts: 16888
Re: Iran - spacefaring nation
Is Iran really "spacefaring?" Or do you have to get a person into space first? (100km/62mi)
"Now commences the process of cutting off the head, which generally takes from an hour to an hour and a half by an expert workman with a sharp blade." -Reuben Delano, Wanderings and Adventures
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#16 2008-08-17 9:51 pm
- [Tycho?]
- As Elusive As Doubt
- From: May the best sentience win
- Registered: 2000-06-19
- Posts: 3146
Re: Iran - spacefaring nation
dvpierce wrote:
Is Iran really "spacefaring?" Or do you have to get a person into space first? (100km/62mi)
Meh, I dunno. The Russians launching Sputnik was pretty much the start of the space age, thats what I'm going from. Iran sure wont be putting up an astronaut any time soon.
I could bore you with a philosophical tirade about freedom and tyranny, or try and explain to you what new horizons are suddenly open to me, but I doubt you would understand and if you did it might frighten you. That amuses me.
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#17 2008-08-17 10:04 pm
- Tallgeese
- Arugula-eating Elitist
- From: Fake America
- Registered: 2000-10-17
- Posts: 30646
Re: Iran - spacefaring nation
How about a satellite that's even as functional as Sputnik?
He can even take his son with him into the shower, where the boy cannot help but notice that Dad has a penis
- Dr. James Dobson, on "preventing" homosexuality
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#18 2008-08-17 10:10 pm
Re: Iran - spacefaring nation
Don't Japanese hobbyists launch Hello Kitty™ origami into orbit every day?
...having nothing in them of the feelings or principles of '76, now look to a single and splendid government of an aristocracy, founded on banking institutions and moneyed incorporations under the guise and cloak of their favored branches of manufactures, commerce and navigation, riding and ruling over the plundered ploughman and beggared yeomanry. -- TJ
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#19 2008-08-17 10:16 pm
Re: Iran - spacefaring nation
Tallgeese wrote:
How about a satellite that's even as functional as Sputnik?
I think they plan on test the satellite delivery mechanism a couple more times before risking anything as expensive as a real satellite. They supposedly said that they planned two more launches of dummy satellites before the actual satellite launch.
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#20 2008-08-17 10:22 pm
- Tallgeese
- Arugula-eating Elitist
- From: Fake America
- Registered: 2000-10-17
- Posts: 30646
Re: Iran - spacefaring nation
Metacell wrote:
Don't Japanese hobbyists launch Hello Kitty™ origami into orbit every day?
Actually, that's Japan's official space agency.
He can even take his son with him into the shower, where the boy cannot help but notice that Dad has a penis
- Dr. James Dobson, on "preventing" homosexuality
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#21 2008-08-17 10:30 pm
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