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#1 2008-08-25 1:43 pm

TheMouthOfSauron
Member
From: The Pas, MB, Canada
Registered: 2002-02-25
Posts: 602

To Vista or not to Vista?

The machine is a Mac Pro 8-core 2.8GHz / 1TB / 8 GB / GeForce 8600 GT. Right now I'm running XP SP2 in Boot Camp for games and is seems that Windows XP is only seeing 2 GB of RAM and (I think) four cores. I am under the impression that Vista will use all cores and all of the RAM but please correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway, I'm wondering if game performance will be better or worse if I upgrade to Vista? I don't want to go to the trouble of upgrading if there's little or no benefit. I have no DX10 games, right now, BTW. What about XP SP3? I've been dragging my feet on doing that upgrade.

Any advice is welcome.


"Infinity is not a number! Infinity simply describes the way in which this [function] does not exist."
-Alex Chigogidze

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#2 2008-08-25 1:50 pm

ukimalefu
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From: time loop
Registered: 2002-09-09
Posts: 8290
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Re: To Vista or not to Vista?

hmm http://homepage.mac.com/oatmeal/MAF/maxes/shudder.gif

Ask Bat.

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#3 2008-08-25 2:27 pm

Bat
Adult's Play
Royal Wombat
From: Björk, Björk
Registered: 2001-05-14
Posts: 24109

Re: To Vista or not to Vista?

Vista 64 might be a better gaming choice at this point. The early performance gap with XP has been closed with later driver releases, and it seems likely all your real productive work would be in OSX, so issues like driver support for older or more obscure peripherals are non-issues. Vista should, at least at some level, see 8 cores and more; XP would also in flavors above Pro (Corporate and Datacenter flavors scaled to 32 cores IIRC, tho these days Server 2003 would be choice there. Altivec could better speak to that). XP can 'see' at most a little over 3GBs RAM, and then only under certain circumstances... realistically, tho, your biggest bottleneck in gaming will be that 8600 GT (which is a part which will likely die prematurely anyway), so that's where first upgrade money should go, with the exception of student discounts for Vista.

No current PC games benefit from more than four cores (tho that will start to change at some point) so that needn't be a major consideration at present. Vista Home Premium SP1 64-bit in OEM flavor would likely be a good choice; Newegg currently has it for $100.

2GBs RAM vs. 4 is a bigger bottleneck than support for more than 4 cores.

XP SP3 has a few benefits like Black Hole Router Detection that can benefit Net gaming somewhat, but its biggest benefit is in rolling up 4 years of Updates into one package. You might want to look at this thread.


If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a conclusion - George Bernard Shaw

"Fire up a colortini, sit back, relax, and watch the pictures, now, as they fly through the air."

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#4 2008-08-25 9:05 pm

robco
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From: Sodom
Registered: 2004-12-04
Posts: 6779
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Re: To Vista or not to Vista?

Unless you really want to play DX10 titles, stay as far away from Vista as you possibly can. It sucks hardcore. Not just performance wise, but it's really not that great wrt to usability. Again, unless you want to runs something that requires it, I'd avoid it. Hopefully the next version of Windows won't suck so hard.


It is an odd thing, but every one who disappears is said to be seen at San Francisco. It must be a delightful city, and possess all the attractions of the next world.
- Oscar Wilde

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#5 2008-08-25 10:42 pm

akb825
ph34r teh master sword
From: In a secluded room
Registered: 2003-12-25
Posts: 6346
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Re: To Vista or not to Vista?

One of my co-workers upgraded to Vista (he's the only one) and noticed a huge slowdown. At the time he had 2 GB of RAM and it was chugging just running visual studio. Once he upgraded to 64 bit Vista and added more RAM, though, it's been a lot better. YMMV, but I doubt it will give you a large enough performance increase to justify the hassle.


My software

"Standards are for n00bs!!!" -Microsoft

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#6 2008-08-26 1:57 am

Bat
Adult's Play
Royal Wombat
From: Björk, Björk
Registered: 2001-05-14
Posts: 24109

Re: To Vista or not to Vista?

Rob, sounds like you're out of date. But yes, any benefits depend, as mentioned, on what you're running or will want to in future. The 8600 won't give enough performance in DX10 to be worthwhile, so a better videocard should come first. Only if you really need >2GBs RAM will Vista be a better choice; perhaps WoW, not much else without a graphics upgrade. Better a new vidcard than >2GBs RAM in my book and for most gaming purposes, but it was a general question without the many specifics useful to a tailored answer.

The Vista launch wasn't good, but the FUD flood that's become the Internet norm is tiresome. Mileages do, will vary with Vista across a number of variables.

MouthOfSauron, we really need more info on things like the games you play, or plan to, under Boot Camp to offer more definitive recommendations. My impression, tho, is that with your current hardware, Vista will give little benefit. In my dual-boot rig, I'd prefer Vista 64 to 32 for its RAM potential, were I starting from scratch, but I'd still have the majority of my games on XP; and I have better graphics already.


If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a conclusion - George Bernard Shaw

"Fire up a colortini, sit back, relax, and watch the pictures, now, as they fly through the air."

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#7 2008-08-26 11:48 pm

~Coxy
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From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: 2000-04-05
Posts: 8315
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Re: To Vista or not to Vista?

I think he mistyped - you can't get a 8600 in a Mac Pro. It's probably a 8800GT but could be a Radeon 2600XT.

In my opinion upgrading to Vista will not get you any more performance - if games aren't crashing due to running out of RAM (eg. Supreme Commander using more than 2GB) then there'll be no benefit to.

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#8 2008-08-27 12:35 am

Bat
Adult's Play
Royal Wombat
From: Björk, Björk
Registered: 2001-05-14
Posts: 24109

Re: To Vista or not to Vista?

Games can and will page out to VM long before crashing, losing performance in the process, but... since the OP hasn't come back, I've put enough work in on this.

(Yes, I know about SupCom, btw).


If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a conclusion - George Bernard Shaw

"Fire up a colortini, sit back, relax, and watch the pictures, now, as they fly through the air."

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#9 2008-08-27 12:59 am

TheMouthOfSauron
Member
From: The Pas, MB, Canada
Registered: 2002-02-25
Posts: 602

Re: To Vista or not to Vista?

Coxy's right, it is an 8800 GT, I don't know why I thought it was an 8600...

Right now I'm plying Neverwinter Nights 2, which I realize isn't bleeding edge. Upcoming titles on my list are Diablo 3, Stacraft 2, Fallout 3, and possibly Too Human if it ends up making it to PC. Anyway, I was looking at that RAM as a vast untapped resource and I can get Vista cheap since I teach at a college but if you say the graphics card will choke games before memory will then I won't bother upgrading right now.

Thanks, guys. Sorry for the post-and-run, busy day today.


"Infinity is not a number! Infinity simply describes the way in which this [function] does not exist."
-Alex Chigogidze

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#10 2008-08-27 2:21 am

Bat
Adult's Play
Royal Wombat
From: Björk, Björk
Registered: 2001-05-14
Posts: 24109

Re: To Vista or not to Vista?

An 8800GT brings things closer to balance than lesser cards. Perhaps someone like Mr. T who uses one can comment on its adequacy for those games (altho some of your games won't be out for awhile) vs. RAM in his experience. I don't remember offhand how much RAM he runs.

Mileage varies with Vista more than most OSes. Early adopters sometimes had bad experiences, others like test swear by it. I'll be able to contribute my own hands-on experience soon, I hope. Generally, the more modern &/or powerful the rig, the better the results. Later I'll link a couple decent articles you can study yourself.

But no, there's likely no really compelling reason to upgrade soon. Only the upcoming titles would benefit.


If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a conclusion - George Bernard Shaw

"Fire up a colortini, sit back, relax, and watch the pictures, now, as they fly through the air."

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#11 2008-08-27 2:44 am

NightCougar_37
Has been Larrabee vaccinated..have you?
From: The back of my Netherdrake
Registered: 2001-07-22
Posts: 8774

Re: To Vista or not to Vista?

I'm kinda mixed on Vista atm. I can see it needs more RAM for sure, but performance isn't as bad as I thought. Closest example I can give is say...when OSX was first released. However in this case, its not like then where OS9 apps were kicking it's ass. XP and Vista gap is not as wide.

With the specs you have, you might enjoy it. I can't say as i've only got 2GB of RAM here for my main rig. I do have a laptop around here running it with 3GB but its only Vista 32bit and the GPU isn't as great.

But give or take if I had all the upgrades I wanted, pending any compatibility issues, i'd probably use Vista more.


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#12 2008-08-27 11:35 pm

Bat
Adult's Play
Royal Wombat
From: Björk, Björk
Registered: 2001-05-14
Posts: 24109

Re: To Vista or not to Vista?

Looked over the sysreqs for NWN2 earlier. Looks unlikely to benefit from beaucoups RAM, and for that matter, the games that can, can be patched to use 3GBs on XP- e.g. I believe SupCom was, some time ago.


If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a conclusion - George Bernard Shaw

"Fire up a colortini, sit back, relax, and watch the pictures, now, as they fly through the air."

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