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#1 2008-08-25 9:23 pm
I wonder how this will influence the iPhone 3G lawsuit
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#2 2008-08-25 10:04 pm
- Art743
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- From: Baton Rouge, La
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Re: I wonder how this will influence the iPhone 3G lawsuit
This is one of those times when I wish Apple would not be so secretive. This kind of testing is available everywhere, and the information, good or bad (with a solution) would help consumers confidence. I said it earlier, and I hate to be repetitive, but sometimes Apples policies leave customers wondering who is on whose side.
Its that kind of perception of unresponsiveness that starts many lawsuits.
Regards
Regards,
Art in Baton Rouge, art743@mac.com
Mac Pro, ATI 3870, 30in Mac, 24in HP, RAID, XP in Boot Camp.
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#3 2008-08-25 11:10 pm
- NAG
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Re: I wonder how this will influence the iPhone 3G lawsuit
Kind of like the Macbook Air update they just released. They pretty much denied it (although I never had that much of a problem) until the update.
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#4 2008-08-26 1:15 am
- Bat
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- From: Björk, Björk
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Re: I wonder how this will influence the iPhone 3G lawsuit
Swedes were among the first reporters on the 3G's shortcomings. Just look down the page.
(AP) updated 8:57 p.m. CT, Wed., Aug. 13, 2008
SEATTLE - Spotty wireless broadband connectivity for some of Apple Inc.'s new iPhones most likely results from a hardware problem introduced during mass production, a Swedish technical magazine reported Wednesday.
Ny Teknik, Sweden's foremost engineering weekly, obtained a report on tests conducted by unnamed experts that showed some handsets' sensitivity to third-generation network signals is well below the level specified in the 3G standard.
So-called 3G networks offer the promise of faster Web surfing on cell phone browsers, and make bandwidth-hogging applications like video calling feasible. Phones that access 3G networks must meet certain engineering and technical specifications, which are set and maintained by the International Telecommunication Union, a Geneva-based organization.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26187370/
Perhaps it affects some units more than others.
If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a conclusion - George Bernard Shaw
"Fire up a colortini, sit back, relax, and watch the pictures, now, as they fly through the air."
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#5 2008-08-26 8:27 am
Re: I wonder how this will influence the iPhone 3G lawsuit
Perhaps but if so haw many is the question then. 1%? 50? More? Less? A low amount would seem to indicate a lack of deception and a high amount would indicate the possibility. There also the possibility that in the laboratory it test fine but out in the wild the are factors that could affect 3G performance in unanticipated ways like a more sensitive devices showing the unrecognized faults in a networks setup or the fluctuations in signal quality showing a fault in hardware not typically trigger under testing. If that's the case where does the blame lie? Then again AT&T wouldn't be the the first or even the latest cell phone provider to lie about the condition of their network.
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#6 2008-08-26 10:36 am
- LLEVIATHANN
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- From: 22 Acacia Avenue
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Re: I wonder how this will influence the iPhone 3G lawsuit
Apple gets it's own RRoD.

Let us be thankful for the fools; but for them the rest of us could not succeed. - Mark Twain
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#8 2008-08-26 12:39 pm
Re: I wonder how this will influence the iPhone 3G lawsuit
Wired's been running a survey too. http://www.maclife.com/article/news/wir … k_weakness
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#9 2008-08-26 8:44 pm
- NAG
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Re: I wonder how this will influence the iPhone 3G lawsuit
Well I can tell you that the network is definitely a factor. In Portland where almost everyone seems to have an iPhone the phone drops off 3G or just plain stalls out constantly. In Spokane where there are maybe 2 iPhones it works great and there are 5 bars basically all the time.
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#10 2008-08-26 10:35 pm
Re: I wonder how this will influence the iPhone 3G lawsuit
the brand spankin' new blackberry bolds have been found to be having the same problem as the iPhones on AT&T's 3G network.
suck it, trebek.
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#11 2008-08-27 3:47 am
Re: I wonder how this will influence the iPhone 3G lawsuit
Of course the network is a factor. A hugely significant one, too. There is really nothing special about the iPhone's GSM/GPRS/UMTS capabilities, it works just like any other 3G phone.
I'll be switching from my Sony-Ericsson P1i to an iPhone in October. I don't expect it to fare significantly different, as far as connectivity goes.
.tsooJ
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#12 2008-08-27 2:39 pm
- NAG
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Re: I wonder how this will influence the iPhone 3G lawsuit
Of course, it is only the networks who claim that they're not a factor (like we believe them). I wouldn't be surprised if Apple can fix some of the problems with firmware but we're probably going to have to wait for the networks to get their act in gear like AT&T with EDGE when the first iphone came out.
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#13 2008-08-27 4:48 pm
- Bat
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Re: I wonder how this will influence the iPhone 3G lawsuit
The latest has both being possible contributors, but network coverage has taken the lead, looks like.
According to Verizon, the problem isn't the phone or chipset, but rather the network. They say that AT&T, who carries the iPhone in the U.S., has poor 3G coverage, with only 40 to 50 percent of people in the U.S. living in covered areas. They say their own high-speed EVDO Rev A network covers more than 80 percent of Americans. They claim to have derived these metrics from the coverage charts available on both companies websites.
...
Amidst the Verizon attacks, interesting news came in about the iPhone 3G's signal quality. The report, from Göteborgs-Posten, a Swedish newspaper, says that their independent testing has shown the iPhone's signal quality to be just slightly lower than a competitive offering, but not grossly below it in quality.
The newspaper tested the iPhone and the Sony Ericsson P1. They used a special noise free test chamber in which the mobile communicates with a simulated base station. The test chamber was manufactured by Swedish company Bluetest, which provides services to Motorola, Nokia, and others. They found, after testing, that the iPhone was only about 2 dB less sensitive than the Nokia smart phone.
Magnus Franzén, an antenna engineer with an M.Sc. in Engineering Physics states, "The values are completely normal."
Bluetest's CEO Mats Andersson, added, "It is not much. At a difference of 4-6 dB one might start to wonder if there is anything wrong."
...and this can only add fuel.
The U.K. has banned the current set of iPhone ads from appearing on TV in the country. It says its Advertising Standards Authority (ASA), the independent regulatory agency in charge of regulating television, received two complaints that Apple's claims in the ads that its phone could access all of the internet were misleading due to its lack of Java or Flash support, essential to accessing much of the internet.
...
The ASA was unmoved by Apple's complaints and pointed out that Apple specifically chose to state in the ad that "You'll never know which part of the internet you'll need... all parts of the internet are on the iPhone" which would seem to imply support for all major standards.
If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a conclusion - George Bernard Shaw
"Fire up a colortini, sit back, relax, and watch the pictures, now, as they fly through the air."
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#14 2008-08-27 6:17 pm
Re: I wonder how this will influence the iPhone 3G lawsuit
Two dB less than a Nokia, eh? Nothing to sneeze at. (My Nokias stayed in touch in places my Motorola throws a fit.)
I thought AT&T was making the commercials for the iPhone and Apple was just approving them. Has this changed?
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#15 2008-08-27 7:04 pm
- Art743
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- From: Baton Rouge, La
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- Posts: 291
Re: I wonder how this will influence the iPhone 3G lawsuit
If the ads say what was just quoted, I agree they need clarification, as does the entire issue of flash, etc.
In the meantime, I am happy with my iPhone, including battery life. Sometimes I wonder if people expect to much, not necessarily of the capability, but of the experience. After all, when I am ready to sit down for an internet session, visit my forums and read the paper, I am at my Mac, and not on anyone's phone, including Blackberry. On the other hand, I am happy to have the ability to use it to keep up when I want to.
Regards
Regards,
Art in Baton Rouge, art743@mac.com
Mac Pro, ATI 3870, 30in Mac, 24in HP, RAID, XP in Boot Camp.
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#16 2008-08-27 11:06 pm
- NAG
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Re: I wonder how this will influence the iPhone 3G lawsuit
Well I'd take what Verizon says with a grain of salt.
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#17 2008-08-27 11:33 pm
Re: I wonder how this will influence the iPhone 3G lawsuit
NAG wrote:
Well I'd take what *Insert Any Cellular Company Name Here* says with a grain of salt.
Fixed
Seriously though, while Verizon can potentially benefit from pointing out real or imagined flaws in their competitors networks, their "observation" matches independent ones.
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#18 2008-08-27 11:52 pm
- Bat
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- From: Björk, Björk
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Re: I wonder how this will influence the iPhone 3G lawsuit
Obviously they have a vested interest, but point out the data is up on AT&T's own site.
If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a conclusion - George Bernard Shaw
"Fire up a colortini, sit back, relax, and watch the pictures, now, as they fly through the air."
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#19 2008-08-29 1:08 pm
- Bat
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- From: Björk, Björk
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Re: I wonder how this will influence the iPhone 3G lawsuit
This won't help, either.
Apple has promised to fix an iPhone security flaw that lets people bypass a password designed to protect personal information on a user's phone.
First discovered by MacRumors and confirmed by Gizmodo, the flaw also affects iPod Touch owners. Specifically, users simply tap the "Emergency Call" button on the password-entry screen, and then tap the home button twice.
Doing this will allow the person to have access to a user's favorites and a list of contacts. Clicking on any contact's name will reveal the person's phone number and will have access to the phone function -- i.e. clicking on the e-mail function will let the person send an e-mail to the contact.
If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a conclusion - George Bernard Shaw
"Fire up a colortini, sit back, relax, and watch the pictures, now, as they fly through the air."
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#20 2008-08-30 4:17 am
- Bat
- Flawless Cowboy
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- From: Björk, Björk
- Registered: 2001-05-14
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Re: I wonder how this will influence the iPhone 3G lawsuit
The final bit of confusion was the update to the iPhone's firmware. The 2.0.2 update said it had "bug fixes" for the iPhone, but gave no specific details. Apple's Jennifer Bowcock did tell USA Today that "the software update improves communication with 3G networks". With such a hazy picture, a new inside source from AT&T steps in to try to clarify exactly what the fix did according to Roughly Drafted.
Basically the update "fixed power control on the mobile" according to the source. To understand what they're going to say next, you must first know a bit about AT&T's jargon for UMTS -- the technology it uses to deliver its 3G network. In the technology, phones are referred to as user equipment, "UE" for short. The base transceiver station towers are known as "Node B".
With this jargon in mind, the AT&T source explains:
In UMTS power control is key to the mobile and network success. If the UE requires too much downlink power then the base station or Node B can run out of transmitter power and this is what was happening. As you get more UEs on the cell, the noise floor rises and the cell has to compensate by ramping up its power to the UEs. If the UE power control algorithm is faulty then they will demand more power from the cell than is necessary and with multiple users this can cause the cell transmitter to run out of power. The net result is that some UEs will drop their call. I have seen the dropped call graphs that correspond to the iPhone launch and when the 2.0.2 firmware was released. The increase in dropped calls, (were the result of) dropped calls due to a lack of downlink power.
In essence, the iPhone is asking for a stronger signal than it needs. In areas with lots of users, some or all of whose phones are doing this, calls start to get dropped and signal quality drops. This all follows with the conclusions the media had reached -- the problems were somehow correlated to user distribution and seemed puzzlingly to be both with AT&T's network, and with the hardware.
The source continues:
The power control issue will also have an effect on the data throughput, because the higher the data rate the more power the Node B transmitter requires to transmit. If the UEs have poor power control and are taking more power than is necessary then it will sap the network’s ability to deliver high speed data. This is one of the reasons why AT&T has been sending text messages to users to persuade them to upgrade to the 2.0.2 software. In a mixed environment where users are running 2.0, 2.0.1, and 2.0.2, the power control problems of 2.0 and 2.0.1 will affect the 2.0.2 users. It is not the network that is fault but the interaction of the bad power control algorithm in 2.0 and 2.0.1 software and the network that is at fault. The sooner everybody is running 2.0.2 software the better things will be. Having seen the graphs the 2.0.2 software has already started to make difference.
Since transmitting lots of data takes lots of transmission power, and transmission power was unnecessarily being raised above that necessary for the use levels on phones, the network in areas of heavy use was unable to handle high speed data.
This revelation offers up two key pieces of insight. The first -- this explains why there was little difference seen among individual users in the news media who downloaded and tested the update. The updates did not majorly change the phone on an individual basis; rather they changed how the phone interacted with the network in a small way.
Secondly, the quality of the fix is directly proportional to how many users download it. There are still many users running old firmware, so problems are continuing. AT&T is going as far as to send users text messages to try to get them to download the fix.
With this latest update from within AT&T, we are presented with a picture of a company struggling with a serious technical issue. It appears it is well on the way of solving the problems, but the rub is that the solution will only come if users are willing to cooperate.
Report: AT&T Source Explains Exact Technical Details of iPhone 3G Probems
If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a conclusion - George Bernard Shaw
"Fire up a colortini, sit back, relax, and watch the pictures, now, as they fly through the air."
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#21 2008-09-02 10:29 am
- SamGuy
- (Leave blank to use forum default.)
- From: SD
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Re: I wonder how this will influence the iPhone 3G lawsuit
Even though I have not had a dropped call (and neither has anyone else I know with a 3G iPhone), I wonder if I/we will still be able to take advantage of this class-action law suit.
MacBook 1.83 CoreDuo 2GB 160GB 10.5.4
iPhone 3G 16GB Black
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#22 2008-09-04 4:29 am
- Bat
- Flawless Cowboy
- Royal Wombat

- From: Björk, Björk
- Registered: 2001-05-14
- Posts: 28541
Re: I wonder how this will influence the iPhone 3G lawsuit
There is another... lawsuit.[/yoda]
Apple, AT&T sued for too many iPhones on 'overloaded' network
Bloomberg News
Article Launched: 09/03/2008 09:12:46 PM PDT
Apple and its U.S. wireless partner AT&T are being sued for selling too many iPhones by a customer who says the high-speed phone network has been "overloaded" and unable to deliver promised performance.
The iPhone 3G, designed to work with AT&T's faster third-generation network, switches over to slower networks because of the "high volume of 3G iPhones sold," according to an Aug. 29 complaint filed in San Diego. Plaintiff William J. Gillis Jr. is seeking class-action, or group, status on behalf of other users.
If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a conclusion - George Bernard Shaw
"Fire up a colortini, sit back, relax, and watch the pictures, now, as they fly through the air."
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#23 2008-09-04 11:05 am
Re: I wonder how this will influence the iPhone 3G lawsuit
God, I hope that on gets laughed out of court like it deserves to be. Honestly it'd be best if it never made it that far. It's a complete waste of our overloaded court system's time and energy.
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