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#1 2008-08-29 4:31 pm

Tetrachloride
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Registered: 2001-01-29
Posts: 7105

The Swing States

Ohio, Virginia, North Carolina, Florida, Montana, Indiana, New Hampshire, Montana, Colorado, New Mexico, North Dakota, Nevada, Alaska.

Pollster.com  www.pollster.com and 270 to Win.com  270towin.com show these are the swing states.

Electorally,

27 votes - Florida
20 votes - Ohio
15 votes - North Carolina
13 votes - Virginia
11 votes - Indiana
9 votes - Colorado
5 votes - New Mexico
4 votes - New Hampshire
3 votes - Montana
3 votes - Alaska

for a total of of 110 swing votes and possibly Missouri and Arkansas.

The generally blue states are

Washington
Oregon
California
Hawaii
Minnesota
Iowa
Wisconsin
Illinois
Michigan
Pennsylvania
Maryland
DC (promoted to statehood sort of in presidential elections)
Delaware
New Jersey
Connecticut
Rhode Island
New York
Vermont
Massachusetts
Maine

for a total of 255 electoral votes.

It doesn't take much to put Obama-Biden at 270 votes for the win.

The latest Gallup poll has Obama up by 8 points over McCain nationally and this is before Obama's speech.
http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/polit … entio.html

I can't decide if the Republicans made a mistake in scheduling their convention after the Dems.   An awful lot of Dems in Denver might just head straight to Minnesota for hilarity, jail or no jail.

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#2 2008-08-29 6:49 pm

D'Eyncourt
OMGDICTATOR
Registered: 2001-12-27
Posts: 8204
Website

Re: The Swing States

Tetrachloride wrote:

[snip]
I can't decide if the Republicans made a mistake in scheduling their convention after the Dems.
[snip]

It's not a mistake: it's tradition. I don't know why it has been so, but this order has been so for as long as I have been politically aware.

BTW: your first site, pollster.com, has shifted New Mexico from "toss up" to "leaning to Democrats", so the number is now 260 for them.


BOYCOTT SONY

"I think the question now is not whether you went to Vietnam or whether you didn't, whether you fought in the war or fought against the war. I think the only question is whether we can find a president smart enough never to make a mistake like that again"--Molly Ivins, way back in 1992

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#3 2008-08-29 6:52 pm

D'Eyncourt
OMGDICTATOR
Registered: 2001-12-27
Posts: 8204
Website

Re: The Swing States

Interesting: the national polling has Barr with about the same numbers as Nader.


BOYCOTT SONY

"I think the question now is not whether you went to Vietnam or whether you didn't, whether you fought in the war or fought against the war. I think the only question is whether we can find a president smart enough never to make a mistake like that again"--Molly Ivins, way back in 1992

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#4 2008-08-29 8:36 pm

Tetrachloride
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Registered: 2001-01-29
Posts: 7105

Re: The Swing States

I was erring on the side of caution in listing more swing states than other people do. 

This page  [url]http://www.270towin.com/2008_polls/mccain_obama/[url]also as South Dakota and Minnesota listed as swing states.

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#5 2008-08-30 1:00 pm

daemon
blank prince HAL
From: Golden Road (Out of Perdition)
Registered: 2008-01-03
Posts: 1543
Website

Re: The Swing States

I was shocked when I clicked POLLSTER's map on Texas. McCain by 8. I'd be worried if I were a McCain strategist.

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#6 2008-09-01 5:17 pm

Tetrachloride
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Registered: 2001-01-29
Posts: 7105

Re: The Swing States

Swing States, State Legislatures and the Palin "Hail Mary". http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/1/ … 410/582341
:   a nice opinion piece saying that the Palin nomination is a ploy to shore up the right-wing voters.   

.....the so-called battlegrounds.  Yes, I realize that North Carolina is a stretch, but Ive kept it in there.  Of those 14 [swing states], only THREE have State legislatures solely controlled by Republicans.  In the states with full or split Legislative control by Democrats, the ability of Republicans to drive wedge issues onto the ballot to drive far-right turnout is limited to non-existent.

That is, the rising numbers of state governments controlled by Democrats limits the ability of Republicans to induce panic among the voters with abortion rights and gay rights.

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#7 2008-09-01 5:21 pm

Tetrachloride
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Registered: 2001-01-29
Posts: 7105

Re: The Swing States

The leading swing states according to  http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/

Montana, Colorado, Nevada, Florida, Ohio, Virginia, New Hampshire and North Carolina.

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#8 2008-09-01 10:31 pm

McAddict
Member
Registered: 2006-09-08
Posts: 615

Re: The Swing States

Here's a very interesting way to look at things.

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#9 2008-09-02 5:25 am

avkills
demyelinated brain matter
Registered: 2001-05-09
Posts: 6420

Re: The Swing States

It would be classic for the Dems to pull a Bush on this one.  Get the Electorate without the popular vote; although I doubt that is going to happen.

-mark

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#10 2008-09-02 7:28 am

zeitgeist
Current Status: FUD
From: JesusPlane FTW
Registered: 2008-08-10
Posts: 386

Re: The Swing States

Tetrachloride wrote:

...the Palin nomination is a ploy to shore up the right-wing voters.

Of course it is.  And a ploy to suck away women who voted for Hillary in the primary who refuse to now support Obama. 

I think this was an excellent breakdown:

Sarah Palin Isn't Ready To Be Commander In Chief.

- She has been Governor for 18 months of a state that ranks 47th in population.  Only North Dakota, Vermont, and Wyoming have fewer people to govern than Alaska.
- Prior to that, she was Mayor of Wasilla, Alaka for 6 years and sat on Wasilla's City Council for 4 years.  Wasilla's 2005 population estimate is 8,471.
- Sarah Palin has no foreign policy experience.  Physical proximity of Alaska to Russia doesn't count.


Sarah Palin is woefully out of the mainstream in her views.

- She opposes abortion, even in cases of rape and incest.  Only 18% of Americans agree with her that it should be illegal in all cases (source).
- She opposes sex education in schools and is firmly behind abstinence-only programs (source). 69% of Americans think sex education in schools is very important, and 21% think its somewhat important (source - PDF, p. 6).
- She supports the idea of "school choice", or vouchers (source).  70% of Americans do NOT support vouchers when it means public school funding would be cut (source).
- She supports teaching creationism in science classes (source).
- She is skeptical of global warming and doesn't believe climate change is man-made (source).    85% of Americans believe the planet is warming and a full 70% believe that it is attributable to either BOTH nature and man (49%) or solely to humans (21%) (source).

Palin is hardly free of old-Washington influence and tactics.

- She was FOR the Bridge to Nowhere, before she was against it (source).
- She openly praises Hillary Clinton, but thinks Clinton is a "whiner" (source).
- She is under investigation for ethics abuses in the firing of Alaska's Public Safety Director (source - worth noting also that CNN just reported Palin has retained a lawyer on the same issue).
- She was director of Senator Ted Stevens' PAC (source).  It's worth noting here also that Stevens himself is under indictment for 7 felonious counts.


I dont say that there is no God.  I'm not an atheist because I find atheism to be a mirror of the certainty of religion and I don't like certainty about the next world because we can't know. What I say, what I say is "I don't know."
- Bill Maher on the Daily Show, September 30, 2008

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#11 2008-09-02 9:55 am

user
Your plastic pal who's fun to be with
From: I'm not getting you down, am I
Registered: 2001-10-15
Posts: 14482

Re: The Swing States

She's practically another Harriet Myers.


Aw, he's no fun, he fell right over.

Unless you become as little children, there's no way you will believe this crap.

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#12 2008-09-02 12:51 pm

sturner
Royal High Poobah
Moderator
From: Carrollton, TX USA
Registered: 2000-01-31
Posts: 9866

Re: The Swing States

But she's younger and prettier.

Like all V.P. candidates, she was chosen to provide an advantage to the Presidential candidate. So all is to be expected.


"There were places in the world commemorating those times when wizards hadn't been quite as clever [as to refrain from doing magic when you knew how easy it was], and on many of them the grass would never grow again."  Terry Prachett

There are 3 types of people, those who can count and those who can't.

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#13 2008-09-02 1:02 pm

user
Your plastic pal who's fun to be with
From: I'm not getting you down, am I
Registered: 2001-10-15
Posts: 14482

Re: The Swing States

But in the TV show she was almost a libber. This'll be a big disappointment.


Aw, he's no fun, he fell right over.

Unless you become as little children, there's no way you will believe this crap.

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#14 2008-09-02 1:33 pm

D'Eyncourt
OMGDICTATOR
Registered: 2001-12-27
Posts: 8204
Website

Re: The Swing States

zeitgeist wrote:

[snip]
I think this was an excellent breakdown:

Sarah Palin Isn't Ready To Be Commander In Chief.
[snip]
Sarah Palin is woefully out of the mainstream in her views.

- She opposes abortion, even in cases of rape and incest.  Only 18% of Americans agree with her that it should be illegal in all cases (source).

I think that this a mischaracterization of her position. While she does not make the exception for rape and incest, Palin does concede of the necessity for abortions when the mother's life is endangered should she carry the pregnancy to term.


BOYCOTT SONY

"I think the question now is not whether you went to Vietnam or whether you didn't, whether you fought in the war or fought against the war. I think the only question is whether we can find a president smart enough never to make a mistake like that again"--Molly Ivins, way back in 1992

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#15 2008-09-02 1:39 pm

Alien
FF
Administrator
From: Republic of Amsterdam
Registered: 1999-07-05
Posts: 16554
Website

Re: The Swing States

You know, all this "commander in chief" bullsmurf makes the lot off you come off as a bunch of bloodthirsty warmongers.

Do you really elect your president mainly on the basis of his capability to execute military campaigns? Haven't you people got smurf at home that needs attending, fixing even? Do you care about anything besides bombing the middle east?

.tsooJ

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#16 2008-09-02 2:20 pm

radarman
Member
Registered: 2005-02-28
Posts: 2231

Re: The Swing States

Alien wrote:

You know, all this "commander in chief" bullsmurf makes the lot off you come off as a bunch of bloodthirsty warmongers.

Do you really elect your president mainly on the basis of his capability to execute military campaigns? Haven't you people got smurf at home that needs attending, fixing even? Do you care about anything besides bombing the middle east?

.tsooJ

Of course not. We elect our presidents based on whether we think they would make good drinking or bowling buddies. It helps if they sound like they are dumber than we are as well...

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#17 2008-09-02 2:21 pm

D'Eyncourt
OMGDICTATOR
Registered: 2001-12-27
Posts: 8204
Website

Re: The Swing States

Bomb, bomb, bomb,
Bomb, bomb Iraq...oops, Iran.
http://homepage.mac.com/oatmeal/MAF/maxes/music.gif


BOYCOTT SONY

"I think the question now is not whether you went to Vietnam or whether you didn't, whether you fought in the war or fought against the war. I think the only question is whether we can find a president smart enough never to make a mistake like that again"--Molly Ivins, way back in 1992

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#18 2008-09-02 2:26 pm

jerwin
Sophist
Registered: 2003-01-01
Posts: 5636

Re: The Swing States

Alien wrote:

You know, all this "commander in chief" bullsmurf makes the lot off you come off as a bunch of bloodthirsty warmongers.

Do you really elect your president mainly on the basis of his capability to execute military campaigns? Haven't you people got smurf at home that needs attending, fixing even? Do you care about anything besides bombing the middle east?

.tsooJ

Come off it, Joost. You've been on this planet long enough to figure that one out.


Some subjects actually enjoy pain, and withhold information they might otherwise have divulged in order to be punished.
Central Intelligence Agency. (1983). Human Resource Exploitation Training Manual

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#19 2008-09-02 2:37 pm

user
Your plastic pal who's fun to be with
From: I'm not getting you down, am I
Registered: 2001-10-15
Posts: 14482

Re: The Swing States

The Pres needs to be able to fill out a flight suit.


Aw, he's no fun, he fell right over.

Unless you become as little children, there's no way you will believe this crap.

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#20 2008-09-02 3:01 pm

JakeTheTall
Cargo Cultist
From: In Permanent Opposition
Registered: 2003-03-13
Posts: 7848

Re: The Swing States

Alien wrote:

You know, all this "commander in chief" bullsmurf makes the lot off you come off as a bunch of bloodthirsty warmongers.

If not bloodthirsty warmongers; then scared, insecure bullies with inferiority complexes.


“I don’t see (subprime mortgage market troubles) imposing a serious problem. I think it’s going to be largely contained”  -- U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, April 2007

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#21 2008-09-02 3:16 pm

Alien
FF
Administrator
From: Republic of Amsterdam
Registered: 1999-07-05
Posts: 16554
Website

Re: The Swing States

Same difference.

.tsooJ

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#22 2008-09-02 3:27 pm

JakeTheTall
Cargo Cultist
From: In Permanent Opposition
Registered: 2003-03-13
Posts: 7848

Re: The Swing States

I thought my phrasing was more insulting.


“I don’t see (subprime mortgage market troubles) imposing a serious problem. I think it’s going to be largely contained”  -- U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, April 2007

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#23 2008-09-02 3:32 pm

Alien
FF
Administrator
From: Republic of Amsterdam
Registered: 1999-07-05
Posts: 16554
Website

Re: The Swing States

The more the merrier!

Seriously, though. What surprises me is that everyone seems to just suck it up and run with this stupidity. Where's the daring (wo)man who stands up and says, "hey! There's more to being president than killing arabs, you know!"

.tsooJ

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#24 2008-09-02 3:38 pm

bratboy
attorney-at-law
Royal Wombat
From: Austin, Texas
Registered: 2003-01-19
Posts: 30532

Re: The Swing States

It really isn't surprising, given the text of our Constitution:

Section 2. The President shall be commander in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several states, when called into the actual service of the United States; he may require the opinion, in writing, of the principal officer in each of the executive departments, upon any subject relating to the duties of their respective offices, and he shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment.

He shall have power, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, to make treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, shall appoint ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, judges of the Supreme Court, and all other officers of the United States, whose appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by law: but the Congress may by law vest the appointment of such inferior officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the courts of law, or in the heads of departments.

The President shall have power to fill up all vacancies that may happen during the recess of the Senate, by granting commissions which shall expire at the end of their next session.


"One thing we've learned is there's a difference between being disappointed and having madmen in authority."

                                                                   --Paul Krugman

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#25 2008-09-02 3:41 pm

JakeTheTall
Cargo Cultist
From: In Permanent Opposition
Registered: 2003-03-13
Posts: 7848

Re: The Swing States

Alien wrote:

The more the merrier!

Seriously, though. What surprises me is that everyone seems to just suck it up and run with this stupidity. Where's the daring (wo)man who stands up and says, "hey! There's more to being president than killing arabs, you know!"

.tsooJ

Indeed, there's killing Persians !


“I don’t see (subprime mortgage market troubles) imposing a serious problem. I think it’s going to be largely contained”  -- U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, April 2007

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