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everlong554 wrote:

Did he not know that Ayers tried to blow up the pentagon? That says something about him. Did he agree with him and thus found their world views were in accordance? Did he simply not care? That says something about his character. If he wants peoples votes then owes it to them to explain his position.

Is it important to put this question to every-other politician in Illinois and elsewhere who has "associated" with Ayers? 

Walter Annenberg, a lifelong Republican and former ambassador who was appointed by Presidents Nixon and Reagan, funded an ambitious program to reform urban education in many cities in the mid 1990s. Ayers was an important member of the group that developed and wrote the grant proposal to the Annenberg Foundation.

Obama and Ayers attended at least six meetings together over six years, Annenberg Challenge records show, and those knowledgeable of the school reform group say it is likely there were other informal sessions of the group that they both attended. But no one on the board or on the Annenberg Challenge staff remembers Obama being any closer to Ayers than to any other member of the board. The Annenberg board also included several civic, business and education leaders, many of them Republicans.

Regardless of his background, it was never a problem for anyone — including Republicans and Chicago's most powerful business leaders — to work with Ayers on Chicago's public schools. In fact, Ayers is widely respected in the field of urban education.

"It was never a concern by any of us in the Chicago school reform movement that he had led a fugitive life years earlier," said former Illinois state Republican Rep. Diana Nelson, who worked with both Obama and Ayers over the years. "It's ridiculous. There is no reason at all to smear Barack Obama with this association. It's nonsensical, and it just makes me crazy. It's so silly."

Nelson says her fellow Republicans "might snort when they hear the name Bill Ayers, because they know he comes from a wealthy family, they know he became a radical activist early in his life ... but beyond just snorting, I don't think anyone gives it another thought."

"I don't remember ever hearing anyone raise concerns or questions or concerns about [Ayers'] background," says Anne Hallett, who has worked closely with Ayers on the Annenberg Challenge grant and with Obama on education and other community and legislative matters. "And that included everybody I was engaged with," including prominent Republicans, and corporate and civic leaders in Chicago, Hallett adds.

Link.

Condemn them all, then?

Most of the Republican strategists appearing on CNN this evening think that this tactic is a loser (though many believe the race is already over).

everlong554 wrote:

Pariah wrote:

everlong554 wrote:

So then shouldn't Obama come out and defend his dealings with Ayers in the past? Since the guy is so harmless, he shouldn't have to obfuscate and downplay his role with Ayers.

I know that for years Bernardine Dorn was denied access to the Bar due to her past actions, and in 2001 on the very day of 9/11 there was a news article in the times where he remained unrepentant and said he wished they had done more. And in 2006 he was essentially saying viva la revolucion and palling around with Chavez.

Now, all of those positions can potentially be defendable, though I'd like to see someone try to do it and run for president. However, Obama in fact hasn't done it. He's said it was just some guy in the neighborhood, that he didn't know the guys history immediately, that he barely knew him that the guy isn't on his campaign, but that what the guy did is despicable.

However, the link to him is far closer than he lets on. He started his campaing in the guys basement, he wrote a blurb for the guys book, he served on a board with him. At some point he had to know the guy tried to bomb the pentagon, got off on a technicality and wasa unrepentant. Ayers, was not unknown at the time. Again, with the I was in the pews of Wrights church for 20 years, but had NO IDEA he was saying anything remotely  incendiary excuses. That Barack sure doesn't pay alot of attention to people he deals with.

If he had any honesty he would own up to his past and try to defend it instead of throwing everyone under the bus. Because it makes him look like either someone hiding something or someone who is truly out of touch.

And I call bull on Obama's supporters saying his association with Ayers is a non issue or a character assassination. Lets say there was someone in the 70's who bombed a few abortion clinics and tried to kill some doctors. He was caught but got off on a tecnicality. He went on to become a philanhtropist due to his daddy's influence, and skirted having to face any jail time.
He said 30 years on that he wished he had done more, and was largely unrepentant, and republican had a more than casual association with him, are you saying it would be no issue? Bush was villified for having Abramoff set foot in the white  house and being seen in the same photograph with him, and Abramoff never tried blowing up the pentagon, or an abortion clinic.

I call bullsmurf on this argument. The fact is Obama was a radical in his day, attended a radical church was part of the democrat socialist party (and not as a young man, he was in his 30's at them time), and now is trying to come off squeaky clean and pretend or hide any of his past. It would be one thing if he said he was in those groups, and offered a cogent argument as to how his views changed, or even better defended his time in said groups. Maybe us conservatives are wrong to be pegging him with these associations, maybe Ayers is actually a really swell guy.

Yet, he's denounced WRight when Wright said something he had said countless times in church previously, and he says that Ayers actions were despicable. That's trying to have your cake and eat it too.

This is not to say that Obama is someone who's out to bomb the pentagon, but it does show the comfort and ease Obama has dealing with radicals who target this country. Maybe he can defend his associations based on a utilitarian argument that people can then understand or he can say, I was a radical in my youth but have tempered my ways. Only he doesn't. Instead he tried to hide his past. And of course since the media is in the tank for him and arent' digging to much its not that hard.

I don't have one problem with anything Obama's pastor was quoted as saying. The truth hurts and Ayers was fighting a criminal government.
A damn shame Americans have become such sheep that similar reactions to Bush have not happened.

wow. So in your mind, more americans should have bombed the pentagon, and police stations and capitol buildings. That;s pretty extreme.  Why not assassinations too?

And I'm sure that Paul Hill had point when he killed John Britton because he was just defending the unborn. Of course, he, actually was put to death for his crimes, but clearly physician John Britton had it coming since he was killing babies after all.  in his last words he encouraged others who believe abortion is an illegitimate use of lethal force to "do what you have to do to stop it". So clearly then whatever he did to protect the unborn was justified.

Now suppose he bombed a few clinics, his wife gets killed in one of the bombs he was trying set off, he goes on the run, but gets off from punishment on a tecnicality and says in 2006 that he wished he had done more and didn't regret his actions. Even if one were pro life, it might be hard to justify serving on a board with him, considering hes unrepentant about killing. ARe you telling me that if a presidential candidate served on a board with him for a few years etc that there would be no issues about why he was associated with the guy? Are you kidding me?

Have you seen that person/terrorist that McCain has been seen cheering and shaking her hand at rallies over and over again? You know, the one that bomb those abortion clinics. Its' been on everywhere but FOX News in the last 48 hours.

Last edited by wellfleation (2008-10-09 9:47 pm)

everlong554 wrote:

Nefarious wrote:

bratboy wrote:

This is also a good place to note that, two times this week, announcers at campaign events referred to Obama as "Barack Hussein Obama" prior to introducing McPalin.  They've also taken to calling him a "friend of terrorists."

There's no way to confront these people.   Keep calm, stand up straight and vote.

Ayers is/was a terrorist. Is obama his enemy?

You really have know idea what you are talking about.

THis is on page A4 (NOT the front page)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co … 03169.html

Anger Is Crowd's Overarching Emotion at McCain Rally

By Michael D. Shear and Perry Bacon Jr.
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, October 10, 2008; Page A04
WAUKESHA, Wis., Oct. 9 -- There were shouts of "Nobama" and "Socialist" at the mention of the Democratic presidential nominee. There were boos, middle fingers turned up and thumbs turned down as a media caravan moved through the crowd Thursday for a midday town hall gathering featuring John McCain and Sarah Palin.

"It is absolutely vital that you take it to Obama, that you hit him where it hits, there's a soft spot," said James T. Harris, a local radio talk show host, who urged the Republican nominee to use Barack Obama's controversial former pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr., and others against him.

"We have the good Reverend Wright. We have [the Rev. Michael L.] Pfleger. We have all of these shady characters that have surrounded him," Harris bellowed. "We have corruption here in Wisconsin and voting across the nation. I am begging you, sir. I am begging you. Take it to him."

The crowd of thousands roared its approval.

In recent days, a campaign that embraced the mantra of "Country First" but is flagging in the polls and scrambling for a way to close the gap as the nation's economy slides into shambles has found itself at the center of an outpouring of raw emotion rare in a presidential race.

"There's 26 days and people are looking at the very serious possibility that there's a chance that Obama might get in, and they don't like that," said Ian Eltrich, 28, as he filed out of the crowded sports complex.

"I'm mad! I'm really mad!" another man said, taking the microphone and refusing to surrender it easily, even when McCain tried to agree with him.

..

everlong554 wrote:

Nefarious wrote:

bratboy wrote:

This is also a good place to note that, two times this week, announcers at campaign events referred to Obama as "Barack Hussein Obama" prior to introducing McPalin.  They've also taken to calling him a "friend of terrorists."

There's no way to confront these people.   Keep calm, stand up straight and vote.

Ayers is/was a terrorist. Is obama his enemy?

When was the last time that Ayers held a gun or threatened someone ?  If not in the last 20 years, the issue is moot and a red herring.

And you are basing that statement on what, kev?

If you say the 2001 New York Times interview, there's allegations of distortion. You are basing it on the 2004 Independent Lens interview, it sounds like he regrets the actions he took in opposing the government but not act of opposing the government itself.

In his case that's likely true enough, brat. However there are plenty of otherwise good people who've done things they regret for reasons they do not.

I only mentioned anything because it demonstrates a pretty basic flaw in kev's argument.

Last edited by ScifiterX (2008-10-09 10:56 pm)

As you can see spinning to associate really is not that hard sometimes.

I've seen compelling evidence that paints Bush & Cheney as terrorists. McCain has long standing professional and personal interactions with Bush and at least a working relationship with Cheney over the same period. To make matters worse for McCain he belongs to the same organization as those "terrorists".

mo' ron wrote:

everlong554 wrote:

bratboy wrote:

Oh man, this 'bombs abortion clinics' line must have been on the official talking points sent out this morning.

A McCain surrogate on CNN is pushing the same comparison right now.

bratboy, are you seriously going to suggest that if it were a radical on the right who is actually a terrorist (ie actually set of bombs that targeted various buildings) that it would be completely irrelevant to you or people on this board if a republican had such an association?

Ayers didn't actually bomb anything did he?

Yes - he did.