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jerwin wrote:

What the bourgeois do not realize is that it goes hand in hand wit another socialist maxim.

He who does not work, neither shall he eat

Since capitalism is not work, they shall be deprived of their parasitism and asked to make a honest living. But since they have no experience with hard work, accustomed as they are to living off the sweat of other men's brows, their abilities will be comparatively few. But the rest of society will make sure that what needs they have will be met. The bourgeois have noting to fear, for they will benefit!

Yes, we will give them the asskicking they desperately need.  And forcing them to abandon all that business school brainwashing WILL benefit them.

resedit wrote:

What some americans *cough*evangelicals*cough* fail to realize - communism itself does not go against any biblical principles, and in fact was actually practiced by the early church.

It was the complete lack of religious freedom that was a problem with marxist communism that made it "evil" from an ethical perspective (well, that and many other freedoms that were stripped).

I'm not a socialist, but socialism itself is not evil, it's just another way of approaching economics.

Obama has made absolutely no indications whatsoever that he has any interest in restriction religion, the press, or other things that were so severely wrong with marxism.

So - even if some of his thought are on the socialistic side (and I'm not saying they are), to equate him with marxism is blatant intellectual dishonesty because he clearly does NOT endorse the parts of marxism that truly made it "evil" and that distinguished marxism from other types of communism/socialism.

eh,
I couldnt agree more. Scary LOL

resedit wrote:

What some americans *cough*evangelicals*cough* fail to realize - communism itself does not go against any biblical principles, and in fact was actually practiced by the early church.

It was the complete lack of religious freedom that was a problem with marxist communism that made it "evil" from an ethical perspective (well, that and many other freedoms that were stripped).

I'm not a socialist, but socialism itself is not evil, it's just another way of approaching economics.

Obama has made absolutely no indications whatsoever that he has any interest in restriction religion, the press, or other things that were so severely wrong with marxism.

So - even if some of his thought are on the socialistic side (and I'm not saying they are), to equate him with marxism is blatant intellectual dishonesty because he clearly does NOT endorse the parts of marxism that truly made it "evil" and that distinguished marxism from other types of communism/socialism.

I read this essay the other day: Rediscovering Traditionalism. It's Catholic, but this bit might interest you:[/url]

Vatican II decreed that the people should `actively participate' in the mass. To the older idea that active participation could take place largely in silence and stillness was opposed the feeling that the congregation should always be doing things, saying prayers aloud, reading passages of scripture, presenting the bread and wine for the mass. The priest became less one who offered an awe-inspiring sacrifice, and more like one who presides over a community meal. Altars were turned round, so that the priest faced the people, rather than praying on their behalf to the East, as had been done from ancient times. (Critics of the new order often suggest -- rightly -- that this leads to a cult of the priestly personality.) The first part of the liturgy is now given over to scripture readings, somewhat in Protestant style, so that when the priest goes to the altar to say the actual canon of the mass, this can seem like an afterthought, rather than the focal point of the whole proceedings. The priest''s genuflections and other ritual signs of assent to the real presence, which in the old mass enacted an idea of worship and transcendence, seemed to have been cut to a minimum. For many, the remarkable beauty of the Latin text itself, set by so many great composers over the centuries, and a profound influence on the authors of the Book of Common Prayer, had helped create a sense of the sacred which had now all but vanished.

How did this happen? There had been a liturgical movement, strong in northern Europe, going back to the nineteenth century. It emphasised the intelligent participation of the laity, the use of missals, and a partial return to what were believed to be pre-mediaeval liturgical practices. This led to the half-conscious assumption that there was some golden age before the ``accretions'' that led to the elaborate liturgy of modern times. This was rather like the Protestant idea of the ``primitive'' Church before Roman ``corruptions.''

kind of off topic.  but what the hell. The Catholic traditionalists always fancied themselves as anti-communists.

Marx did sing the praises of capitalism as a positive force for development.

Pariah wrote:

resedit wrote:

What some americans *cough*evangelicals*cough* fail to realize - communism itself does not go against any biblical principles, and in fact was actually practiced by the early church.

It was the complete lack of religious freedom that was a problem with marxist communism that made it "evil" from an ethical perspective (well, that and many other freedoms that were stripped).

I'm not a socialist, but socialism itself is not evil, it's just another way of approaching economics.

Obama has made absolutely no indications whatsoever that he has any interest in restriction religion, the press, or other things that were so severely wrong with marxism.

So - even if some of his thought are on the socialistic side (and I'm not saying they are), to equate him with marxism is blatant intellectual dishonesty because he clearly does NOT endorse the parts of marxism that truly made it "evil" and that distinguished marxism from other types of communism/socialism.

eh,
I couldnt agree more. Scary LOL

What's even scarier is I agree as well.

Social democratic reforms killed Marxism for the western capitalist societies. It couldn't stand up to the benefits of capitalism invested in social welfare. Ditch those reforms, and we'll see who gets the last word; return to Marxism it's true capitalist opponent.

If recent events in capitalism are an indication, Marxism could have a shot; self interest as practiced at the highest levels may not be the behavioral saviour some think.

are you suggesting corporations don't do this now?

Jdude wrote:

Still seems to me that the core problem is someone plans to come and take what is mine.

The fundamental problem with capitalism is that what drives the economy is greed, one of the seven deadly sins.
Every economic system has pros and cons and there is no one economic system that is best for everyone all the time.

Coded into old testament law, you were required to leave some of your harvest for the poor to come and gather.

A form of socialism, if I understand it correctly, no?

ShnickyShnack wrote:

Biden asked retarded questions

What the hell is this? It's been decades since these sorts of accusations got tossed around.

A sign of Republican desperation, or are they on to something?

It may have something to do with the fact that this lady's husband is a political and media consultant for GOP politicians.

And just for smurfs and giggles, here's the same woman interviewing McCain.

http://www.wftv.com/video/17712615/index.html

I personally like it when she spends the entire time helping him attack Obama.

I agree - I think for the US anyway, capitalism is the best system.

Jdude wrote:

I figure my paycheck and general products of my labor, my house, my small back yard, multiple vehicles, any business that I may run, my savings and income from dividends, water from my well (if I had one), and my job. Things that I have worked for, in a job of my choosing, where I am the sole person who benefits from the quality and effort put into my labor (aside from my employer who is motivated to maintain my employment based on my output) basically.

Its always a fun time to estimate the taxes on the fat sacks of cash you just made and think about people voting themselves a bigger take.

Steyr AUG wrote:

Jdude wrote:

I figure my paycheck and general products of my labor, my house, my small back yard, multiple vehicles, any business that I may run, my savings and income from dividends, water from my well (if I had one), and my job. Things that I have worked for, in a job of my choosing, where I am the sole person who benefits from the quality and effort put into my labor (aside from my employer who is motivated to maintain my employment based on my output) basically.

Its always a fun time to estimate the taxes on the fat sacks of cash you just made and think about people voting themselves a bigger take.

Don't you live off the government teat?

radarman wrote:

For those who are Bible thumpers, this is pretty much what the Bible calls for as well. We should take care of our neighbors, and ensure the widows and orphans are fed, but we should also be busy tending our businesses and homes.

So the Order of Friars Minor is just plain nuts?