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His bond had broken before then but even many of the staunchest defenders were hard pressed to connect at that point.

:: sits on back porch, sipping a whiskey-sour ::

mo' ron wrote:

This is strange to me, because of all the things that have gone wrong the past 8 years, Katrina is low on the list of things I think Bush could be blamed for.

In the sense he was not responsible for the the path of the storm and the Governor's criminal actions, I agree. However, Katrina summed up a lot of his administrations issues in a way most could see and understand. His structuring of Homeland Security guaranteed that if there were an issue FEMA would be of little use. His response to the issue was significantly slow and woefully inadequate. It wasn't the worst mistake he made; it was just the best example of the nature of his mistakes

It wasn't Katrina.
He sold Iraq too heavily on WMD on not enough on liberating an oppressed people from a dictator who sanctions didn't touch (IE he still had his palaces - the people just went hungry) and then when no WMDs were found, those who supported Bush based on them felt cheated and those who disagreed with Bush from the start hated him even more.

If he had sold the war on liberating Iraqi's maybe the people wouldn't have been behind it, we're a selfish lot that primarily cares only about our own well being and rarely give a smurf about the suffering of others - we'll send money to relief organizations, etc., but are less likely to support military action to help. But if he had sold the war on liberating Iraq and not WMDs then I think his approval rating would be higher right now.

Also, the administration either severely underestimated the response of insurgents into Iraq, or down played the potential impact to the American people.

Furthermore, despite the fact that it was taken completely out of context, the "Mission Accomplished" thing has kind of has the same effect on Bush that the tank photo had on Walter Mondale. (The ship had finished their mission, it was accomplished, the context was never intended to be about the larger Iraq mission - nice spin job by the liberals, they played it well).

Katrina - not that big of impact.

I wouldn't bank too much on the whole Saddam living in the lap of luxury while normal people starved angle. Look at how the top 2% of Americans live compared to many others. The US isn't exactly a model of egalitarianism.

Katrina really highlighted the administration's ineptness. It wasn't just that their philosophy (theology?) was wrong, they're also incompetent. They have no clue how to govern. I suppose it's a mixed blessing that O is choosing more experienced people, even if it dilutes the whole change thing.

Yeah, Katrina is low on my list of what made Bush awful as well. I know FEMA dropped the ball and all, but in that case he at least had some plausible cover- it was a natural disaster, and he had a ready scapegoat (Brown) to pin the bungled operation on.

Katrina was the event that removed the scales from many people's eyes. He was seen for what he truly was-- a bungler.

While I do think Bush's bungling of the Katrina response cemented feelings and is reflected in the polling I also think the pre-surge violence in Iraq was the largest factor.  It just went on so long and developed into a daily grind of violence, so once the surge decision was made it was clear to most people that this change in strategy was very late.  So even once the violence went down people were left scratching their heads and wondering exactly why that wasn't done a year before then, and what effect such a decision would have had on body bags.

Combined with Katrina it just moved many 2004 Bush voters over the 50/50 split (always good to keep in mind that Bush only slightly won both of his elections in the first place... he's NEVER really been what I called popular except during the 9/11 "sympathy" feeling).

Katrina was just the final nail in the coffin, which is what I think the article is trying to say.  The point when even "insiders" realized that their incessant spinning finally would not work.  And if there's one thing this White House did was spin, spin, sugar.  Every WH does it, but this one seemed to do it by a factor of 10.

robco wrote:

Katrina really highlighted the administration's ineptness. It wasn't just that their philosophy (theology?) was wrong, they're also incompetent. They have no clue how to govern. I suppose it's a mixed blessing that O is choosing more experienced people, even if it dilutes the whole change thing.

What katrina highlighted is that people really dont understand disaster response. There were many things that went wrong, but thats to be expected for a storm that caused so much destruction. Many people simply didnt realize that they need to be able to care for themsevles for a minimum of 72 hours before the goverment can mount a response. That obviously didnt happen and to blame everything that went wrong in during KT on incompetence of the Bush administration is ridiculous.

Sci..
other than wringing her hands and crying on national tv ...wtf was the La Gubiner doing? the whiney ass wouldn't even let the feds in when they were first ready to go... La is way different on what it takes to get the feds in "officially"

o'l RayRay just screamed for bush to help cause he knew dam good and well the gubinor was basically smurfin useless.

coulda shoulda woulda.. ya, bush coulda got more there faster and whatnot, but as a resident of La ( yes, I am in Dallas, but I have more than enough property to legally claim residence ) I lay the blame for the post katrina and even more so the post Rita on the gubinor and her staff more than anything bush neglected to do.

Katrina was a colossal screw-up of epic proportion, but it was a failure in a situation thrust upon him. Sure, it illustrates incredible incompetence, but Bush wasn't (by far) the worst. The local governor, and mayor, were the ones who were actually responsible, and they practically wet themselves with incompetence.

The Iraq war, on the other hand, was entirely Bush's doing. He, his 'master', and his minions, are entirely responsible for the deaths of countless Iraqis, and the reputation of our nation.

Also, the storm has passed, and while the city isn't yet rebuilt, it seems reasonably stable. Iraq's stability is still in question. Thus, I consider Iraq to be the low point, and Katrina to be just another nail in the coffin.

macnuke wrote:

Sci..
other than wringing her hands and crying on national tv ...wtf was the La Gubiner doing? the whiney ass wouldn't even let the feds in when they were first ready to go... La is way different on what it takes to get the feds in "officially"

o'l RayRay just screamed for bush to help cause he knew dam good and well the gubinor was basically smurfin useless.

coulda shoulda woulda.. ya, bush coulda got more there faster and whatnot, but as a resident of La ( yes, I am in Dallas, but I have more than enough property to legally claim residence ) I lay the blame for the post katrina and even more so the post Rita on the gubinor and her staff more than anything bush neglected to do.

I already addressed her involvement in an earlier post. Her incompetence doesn't excuse Bush's.