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#51 2009-03-04 12:27 am
- Random User
- One of those Internet guys
- From: Houston, TX
- Registered: 2002-06-17
- Posts: 1151
Re: Where is everyone ... new imac .. mac pro ... and mini
I think I am going to be switching back to PCs due to the better price points on hardware.
I'm getting tired of the same ol' same ol' from Apple in terms of hardware. The upgrades aren't really. The prices, well, ... they are not exactly competitive.
Sure the software rocks. OS X rocks. But as far as hardware goes, they are behind the power curve.
I might spend a bit of money on software to replace the functionality of OS X and the iLife suite but I will be running screaming hardware for the same over all price. That is the difference. Cash outlay about the same for hardware and software but the hardware is WAY over the line compared to Apple's.
Correct me if I'm wrong as I'm sure some of you will find my opinions to be wrong.
Oh, and don't think I'm a hater. I love OS X and iLife and iWork and the rest of the gang. I just hate the price and the hardware selection. I run a Mac Pro - dual 3ghz Xeons - 10gb RAM - and I love the machine but I want/need more encoding power and I can't get that unless I basically buy a whole new Mac Pro (limited by their offerings) at ridiculous prices.
It sucks. 
Last edited by Random User (2009-03-04 12:30 am)
"Blu-ray is just a bag of hurt." - Steve Jobs
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#52 2009-03-04 12:48 am
- allan
- Member

- Registered: 2000-09-19
- Posts: 1084
Re: Where is everyone ... new imac .. mac pro ... and mini
So if you buy an LED CInema Display to go with the Mac mini, wouldn't that leave the MagSafe connector dangling?
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#53 2009-03-04 2:12 am
Re: Where is everyone ... new imac .. mac pro ... and mini
Well, if you want your super fast and inexpensive PC to actually run fast - avoid Vista like the plague and stick with XP. If you can get what you need under *nix, even better.
It's really a matter of personal preference. Most people don't need the most screaming fast machine available - I think that's partly why netbooks are so popular. For most everyday tasks, most modern PCs are overkill. You don't need 8 cores running at high speed to check email, browse the web, etc. For tasks like AV encoding, you need all the power you can get.
But Apple isn't as high as you might think. Start checking out Dell Precisions and Sun workstations with dual CPUs and they aren't exactly inexpensive. And you probably won't get one that's already compliant with the new Energy Star specs, or in as neatly designed enclosure. But compared to a standard desktop PC with a single CPU, the Mac Pro is definitely more expensive.
It is an odd thing, but every one who disappears is said to be seen at San Francisco. It must be a delightful city, and possess all the attractions of the next world.
- Oscar Wilde
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#54 2009-03-04 3:44 am
- personified8
- Member

- From: Omaha, NE USA
- Registered: 2002-01-02
- Posts: 1606
- Website
Re: Where is everyone ... new imac .. mac pro ... and mini
robco wrote:
Well, if you want your super fast and inexpensive PC to actually run fast - avoid Vista like the plague and stick with XP. If you can get what you need under *nix, even better.
i don't know what you are talking about or what others are saying how Vista is so Horrible. I run a 64 bit version of Ultimate and am able to render some pretty slick smurf at pretty slick speeds on my quad core with 8 gigs of ram. I had to build a pc for working at home 3d Projects (I still have my powerbook for other stuff). Anyway, Vista is a memory hog, but I've had no problems with it. Is Vista awesome? Not particularly. Does it work and fit my needs at the moment? Yes. 7 Ought to be better with regards to resource management so that's nice.
This thing also plays games nicely too.
Oh and yes it does have bugs but it isn't non-functional like people always make it out to be.
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#55 2009-03-04 4:55 am
- mmaverick
- Member

- From: Canada
- Registered: 2002-02-02
- Posts: 1296
Re: Where is everyone ... new imac .. mac pro ... and mini
From what I saw, Vista's biggest problems came from all the older computers that should have been able to run it well and just couldn't for one stupid reason or another. Every new PC I've seen running it has been pretty good as far as windows goes.
There's a snake in my boot!
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#56 2009-03-04 5:16 am
- Bat
- Flawless Cowboy
- Royal Wombat

- From: Björk, Björk
- Registered: 2001-05-14
- Posts: 28541
Re: Where is everyone ... new imac .. mac pro ... and mini
personified8 wrote:
robco wrote:
Well, if you want your super fast and inexpensive PC to actually run fast - avoid Vista like the plague and stick with XP. If you can get what you need under *nix, even better.
i don't know what you are talking about or what others are saying how Vista is so Horrible. I run a 64 bit version of Ultimate and am able to render some pretty slick smurf at pretty slick speeds on my quad core with 8 gigs of ram. I had to build a pc for working at home 3d Projects (I still have my powerbook for other stuff). Anyway, Vista is a memory hog, but I've had no problems with it. Is Vista awesome? Not particularly. Does it work and fit my needs at the moment? Yes. 7 Ought to be better with regards to resource management so that's nice.
This thing also plays games nicely too.
Oh and yes it does have bugs but it isn't non-functional like people always make it out to be.
Vista SP2 hit RC status recently, too. Anyway, earlier in thread you asked about video, renaming etc. This would be a good start, and working either way from that point should yield some answers.
I'll have more later. Long day.
If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a conclusion - George Bernard Shaw
"Fire up a colortini, sit back, relax, and watch the pictures, now, as they fly through the air."
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#57 2009-03-04 8:52 am
- macnuke
- just a plano guy
- Moderator

- From: North Dallas 40
- Registered: 2004-05-16
- Posts: 7134
Re: Where is everyone ... new imac .. mac pro ... and mini
silly me..
I ordered.
Mac Pro
6G ram
ATI video card.
delivery March 28th.
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#58 2009-03-04 9:22 am
- dv
- Negusa Negest
- Moderator

- From: Minneapolis, MN
- Registered: 1999-08-30
- Posts: 18092
Re: Where is everyone ... new imac .. mac pro ... and mini
Booksley wrote:
personified8 wrote:
Why the hell isn't there an iMac with a quad core processor yet? Apple's only quads are doubled up in a tower. There is no medium build for these guys!
I understand why no quad in a lappy: heat. Is this the same issue for the iMac?The iMac uses laptop components, and there are no Core 2 Quad laptop chips.
Doesn't mean you can't cram one into a properly designed "laptop" enclosure. (It's more a luggable by today's standards, but the iMac ain't exactly a featherweight either.)
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-9761814-1.html
The lowest power C2QS dissipate about 65w, max. Intel's hottest mobile dual core does 35w max. If an iMac had a vent on the back and a large-diameter, low profile fan over the heat sink, it could vent directly out into open air, and probably dissipate a hell of a lot more than 65w of heat. Without making nearly as much noise as the linked laptop above probably does.
It would just have to have a row of vent slits on the back and be as thick as the old white Intel iMac. ...horrors. 
Apple could do it, they just don't want to. 
macnuke wrote:
silly me..
I ordered.
Mac Pro
6G ram
ATI video card.
delivery March 28th.
oops! 
"Now commences the process of cutting off the head, which generally takes from an hour to an hour and a half by an expert workman with a sharp blade." -Reuben Delano, Wanderings and Adventures
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#59 2009-03-04 10:10 am
- macnuke
- just a plano guy
- Moderator

- From: North Dallas 40
- Registered: 2004-05-16
- Posts: 7134
Re: Where is everyone ... new imac .. mac pro ... and mini
dv wrote:
oops!
not really. I have XpPro and Solaris boxes along with my G5 DP tower.
I just wanted a real Apple box that was as current as Apple gets.
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#60 2009-03-04 10:14 am
- avkills
- demyelinated brain matter

- Registered: 2001-05-09
- Posts: 7098
Re: Where is everyone ... new imac .. mac pro ... and mini
I think I will be getting a 4 core Mac Pro for home. I am seeing the writing on the wall that my DP G5 is going to be kept out of the fun when snow leopard comes out.
Although I could use an 8 core; the new 4 core would probably be nearly as fast as the olds 8 core.
I'll probably go for 6GB RAM, and the ATI high end graphics.
-mark
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#61 2009-03-04 10:21 am
Re: Where is everyone ... new imac .. mac pro ... and mini
Vista is a huge memory hog. It's also considerably slower than XP. Personally, if the highest level of performance was required, I'd rather have system resources going to my apps than to the OS. I run it on a C2D with 4GB of RAM and it's not bad and SP1 has helped a bit. I also gave the Win 7 beta a go and it is better. But unless you really have something that needs it, I would pass on Vista and go directly to Win 7.
It is an odd thing, but every one who disappears is said to be seen at San Francisco. It must be a delightful city, and possess all the attractions of the next world.
- Oscar Wilde
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#62 2009-03-04 10:34 am
- Bat
- Flawless Cowboy
- Royal Wombat

- From: Björk, Björk
- Registered: 2001-05-14
- Posts: 28541
Re: Where is everyone ... new imac .. mac pro ... and mini
This should help a bit on the video front.
NVIDIA GeForce GTS 250: A Rebadged 9800 GTX+
First it was the 8800 GT, then the 8800 GTS 512, then the 9800 GT then the 9800 GTX and shrunk down to the 9800...
NVIDIA's GTX 280M Uses Same G92 Chip as 9800 GTX+
NVIDIA has the fastest single GPU for the desktop in the GTX 285, a 55nm die-shrunk version of its predecessor the GTX 280. However, ATI has been able to gain a larger market share due to aggressive pricing and ramping of smaller geometries. This has led to price pressure on NVIDIA, especially in the performance mainstream segment.
NVIDIA's original GT200 chip -- which is used in the GTX 280 and GTX 260 -- is too big, too costly, and consumes too much power to be used effectively in a mobile solution. NVIDIA has already switched to TSMC's 55nm process from the baseline 65nm node to deal with these issues for the GTX 285, but it is still not suitable for the majority of laptop users. Battery life is too short, the cooling fan is too loud, and the cost is too much.
One solution was to begin manufacturing on the 40nm bulk process like ATI has done. According to our sources, NVIDIA's attempts to produce a die-shrunk 40nm GT200 chip were "disastrous at best". Design problems became evident, since the GT200 was originally designed for the 65nm node. Two shrinks in a row without a major redesign was just too much for NVIDIA, and our most recent information from Taiwan is that the first 40nm chips from NVIDIA will be in the GeForce 300 series.
NV's renaming shenigans go well beyond rationalizing their naming scheme. It's also marchitecture, attempting to get folks to think some cards/chips are newer, more advanced than they are.
The above nails it reasonably well; NV's latest GT200/200b chip is simply too large and expensive, with yields too poor, to bring out midrange and low end cards (or integrated chips) based on it. It's a monster sporting 1.4B transistors, and no cards below the GTX 260 are even on their roadmap. Their 'solution' for the lesser price segments has been to continually rebrand their previous-gen chip, the now-venerable G92.
So yes, the MP is again shy on video horsepower for its price range. It has neither the GTX 285 nor the 4870X2, or even ATi's 4870 midrange card (not that OSX supports Crossfire yet anyway). The 4850 is nice, but pushing towards the affordable end of the price range these days.
If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a conclusion - George Bernard Shaw
"Fire up a colortini, sit back, relax, and watch the pictures, now, as they fly through the air."
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#63 2009-03-04 10:44 am
- Bat
- Flawless Cowboy
- Royal Wombat

- From: Björk, Björk
- Registered: 2001-05-14
- Posts: 28541
Re: Where is everyone ... new imac .. mac pro ... and mini
robco wrote:
Vista is a huge memory hog.
It's designed to use nearly all available RAM via Superfetch, which most don't understand. Said RAM is immediately released if needed by apps. Of course its sysreqs are higher than XP from '01.
But unless you really have something that needs it, I would pass on Vista and go directly to Win 7.
Win7 does improve considerably on Vista. Vista just isn't as bad as its rep, or as it was at launch.
Vista at present, good system: not bad. If you can wait some months, Win7 considerably better & approaching RC. There won't be a W7 Beta 2.
If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a conclusion - George Bernard Shaw
"Fire up a colortini, sit back, relax, and watch the pictures, now, as they fly through the air."
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#64 2009-03-04 12:25 pm
- Nefarious
- Tuning Fork
- Moderator

- From: 45°22"N 84°57"W
- Registered: 2002-09-30
- Posts: 7998
Re: Where is everyone ... new imac .. mac pro ... and mini
macnuke wrote:
silly me..
I ordered.
Mac Pro
6G ram
ATI video card.
delivery March 28th.
See you downtown. 
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#65 2009-03-04 1:16 pm
Re: Where is everyone ... new imac .. mac pro ... and mini
pregnant N proud wrote:
Aaron_R wrote:
I'm still waiting for my new 17 mbp to arrive, only been waiting since Feb 19th and it said 2-3wks when I placed my order. The wait is pissing me off. (was in the apple store this past Friday and they just got their display units in stock earlier that day, but not any resale units)
So at least its nice to know that the new minis and iMac for the time being are shipping same day as the order.
Since the delay of the 17" people have been buying out the stock of the high end 15 and now their is a delay on that 2. I wonder if we are ever going to find out what delayed the 17" for near 2 months in the 1st place.had my 17inch macbook for about 2 weeks now, got yours?
I got mine on the 19th, where in the world are you aaron?
I'm in the world of the dreaded CTO wait!
MacBook Pro 17|2.66 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo|4 GB 1067 MHz DDR3|320 HD @ 7200 RPM|NVIDIA GeForce 9600 M GT 512 MB
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#66 2009-03-04 1:21 pm
Re: Where is everyone ... new imac .. mac pro ... and mini
macnuke wrote:
silly me..
I ordered.
Mac Pro
6G ram
ATI video card.
delivery March 28th.
I feel your pain on the wait time associated with your custom to order. I don't understand how having to build a unit from scratch for someone adds another 2-3 weeks onto an order!
MacBook Pro 17|2.66 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo|4 GB 1067 MHz DDR3|320 HD @ 7200 RPM|NVIDIA GeForce 9600 M GT 512 MB
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#67 2009-03-04 2:04 pm
- mrreet2001
- Member

- From: NW Ohio
- Registered: 2005-05-25
- Posts: 4334
- Website
Re: Where is everyone ... new imac .. mac pro ... and mini
because ones that aren't customized are all ready built and sitting in a warehouse or in an apple store.
2.66Ghz QuadCore-Nehalem w/24"LED CD ---2.2Ghz BlackMB---15" 2.4Ghz MBP(work)
Dual 2.3Ghz G5 (4G Ram, 2x 250G HD)(10.5 server)--- 400Mhz G4 PM (10.4 Server)
1.5GHz Powerbook---1.6Ghz G5 iMac
"So he fels down in a poisoning gas."
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#68 2009-03-04 5:05 pm
Re: Where is everyone ... new imac .. mac pro ... and mini
Some1 wrote:
Former Windork wrote:
The Mini is finally not a stepchild in terms of performance, but it's hardly priced correctly for what you get. $599 and no keyboard and mouse (much less a monitor)? For that price, they should at least give you the keyboard and mouse. Otherwise the price point should be more like $449 and $649 or better yet, $399 and $599.
Given the option between a hackintosh netbook, and Mac Mini, what would you take?
Add me to the very short list of people considering building their own hackintosh.
I love my MacBook Pro, but I'd like to have something much more custom, even putting aside the price point, in a tower, where one can really tune things to their liking. I'm used to working with Linux and having to tweak things, anyhow, so I guess it'll just be par for the course 
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#69 2009-03-04 5:17 pm
- sturner
- Royal High Poobah
- Moderator

- From: Carrollton, TX USA
- Registered: 2000-01-31
- Posts: 13799
Re: Where is everyone ... new imac .. mac pro ... and mini
You wouldn't be happy with any name brand, out of the box Windows box either.
Face it, you qualify as a hobbyist or hardware nerd. So you aren't in the demographic that Apple, or any of the main brand computer manufacturers are aiming at.
I'm not dead yet.
There are 3 types of people, those who can count and those who can't.
"There are few things graven in stone, excepting your date of death."
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#70 2009-03-04 5:31 pm
Re: Where is everyone ... new imac .. mac pro ... and mini
sturner wrote:
You wouldn't be happy with any name brand, out of the box Windows box either.
Face it, you qualify as a hobbyist or hardware nerd. So you aren't in the demographic that Apple, or any of the main brand computer manufacturers are aiming at.
Quite true.
But I'm a geek, not a nerd 
As aforementioned, I do love my MacBook Pro, tho. I mean, I'm absolutely crazy about it. Even if I could build a highly tweaked custom notebook, I'm not so sure I would. Just the desktop.
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#72 2009-03-04 5:55 pm
Re: Where is everyone ... new imac .. mac pro ... and mini
Ugh. Not THAT sort of crazy...
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#75 2009-03-04 8:03 pm
Re: Where is everyone ... new imac .. mac pro ... and mini

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